Shyatt's Recruits

[.44caliberkiller]

There has been a lot of talk about Shyatt's recruiting and whether or not it cuts the mustard...So in his 5 years back he has recruited 2 Wyoming all-timers (Nance/Adams). The best free throw shooter in school history (Grabau). And probably a top 5 all time 3-point shooter (McManamen).

While this year is certainly disappointing, I don't think its Shyatt's lack of recruiting talent. I believe it stems from another recruiting problem and the lopsided alignment of the classes (and to be fair to Shyatt, attrition seems to be an epidemic in college basketball)...Unfortunately Wyoming is not at the point where they can compete for a conference championship with only 2 upperclassmen (And before someone says that Herndon and Washington are both technically in their 3rd year so the team is not as young as they look. I say as far as time on the court goes their sophomores and neither one had a ton playing time prior to this year)....I believe Shyatt will get us back to competing for a championship in the next year or two as his recruits get more time on the court.

I believe Shyatt has plenty of faults (his upperclassmen bias/rebounding philosophies/lopsided classes), but lack of talent isn't one. Could the talent be better? Of course. But I believe he's recruited well enough to compete and win championships (2015 MWCT) when he has a veteran roster.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Bottom line is that if Wyoming cannot compete with the players recruited, that is a recruiting problem.

 

[.44caliberkiller]

Bottom line is that if Wyoming cannot compete with the players recruited, that is a recruiting problem.

True I never said there wasn't a recruiting problem. However I believe the problem has more to do with how our classes are structured and not a talent issue that has often been discussed. We certainly need to try and balance our classes out in order to have sustained success year in and year out. But the way its been going so far under Shyatt it looks like we will compete for a championship every 2-3 years. I wish it was every year just like every poster on here, but you need to learn to walk before you can run. And Shyatt has been a vast improvement over his predecessor.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Exactly .44 caliber.....The issue isn't talent, the issue is uneven classes. We have a total of one senior and one junior who are getting PT. That is why we are the 4th youngest team in all of college basketball. There needs to be more balance to keep going from mountain to valley each year. We lost 6 seniors and 4 starters from last years team. That is too many to lose any year. Luckily we have two guys redshirting to help with the class distribution......but the main reason this year is not going as many would have liked.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

IF you frequent this board recently, there was a lengthy conversation on another post that he really ISNT that much different than his predecessors. There has never been a recruiter like Heath Shroyer. He just couldn't coach. And McClain, through his first 6 season, actually was very good winning 2 regular season MWC championships, an NCAA appearance with one victory. He also had multiple NIT appearances.

I know, I know. You can't always look at wins and losses and tournaments blah blah blah. My point is Shyatt has done nothing to show he's immune to criticism or a skeptics eye when compared to those before him who got ran out of town.

 

[LanderPoke]

I agree with the uneven classes. That's a big reason we struggle this year, but I'd say it's Shyatt's hatred/fear of playing freshmen that is hurting us the most.

 

[.44caliberkiller]

I have no problem with Shyatt getting criticism, much of it is justified. But I was specifically referring to the criticism that "Shyatt's recruits aren't talented enough." I believe they are and just need time to develop.

 

[.44caliberkiller]

I agree with the uneven classes. That's a big reason we struggle this year, but I'd say it's Shyatt's hatred/fear of playing freshmen that is hurting us the most.

Completely agree his freshman bias is baffling at times...He continues to start Barnes but only plays him like 3 minutes a game. I see no other reason for Barnes starting other than he has more time in the system and even though Shyatt knows he's not the best player he deserves the start...makes no sense whatsoever. If Shyatt truly believed Barnes was good enough to start (or the best player at his postition) he would play more minutes.

 

[TSpoke]

The balance of the classes isn't really Shyatts fault. He has been trying to correct it since he got here I believe. When he arrived with graduations and defections he had around 6 spots to fill on short notice. That first year he missed on quite a few but still landed some good ones. I think his redshirting strategy has been an attempt to balance the classes. With some early misses and defections it didn't allow them to get the classes balanced early. Even then it will take a while to get them straightend out. Sure he could have gotten a couple players solely to balcance classes but He still needs to get the players he wants in there. I think going forward things will get better. Next year we will have 2 seniors 6 juniors 2 sophmores and 3 freshman. If they could get someone in the junior class to redshirt next year(not sure who, im sure people have their opinions) we would be 2,5,3,3. Still have that one class but starting to get things evened out.
My point is when Shyatt came abourd the classes were out of wack and it isn't easy to even them up. Does it suck? Yes. Is it the way Shyatt would prefer to have them set up? I really doubt it.

 

[NowherePoke]

The balance of the classes isn't really Shyatts fault. He has been trying to correct it since he got here I believe. When he arrived with graduations and defections he had around 6 spots to fill on short notice. That first year he missed on quite a few but still landed some good ones. I think his redshirting strategy has been an attempt to balance the classes. With some early misses and defections it didn't allow them to get the classes balanced early. Even then it will take a while to get them straightend out. Sure he could have gotten a couple players solely to balcance classes but He still needs to get the players he wants in there. I think going forward things will get better. Next year we will have 2 seniors 6 juniors 2 sophmores and 3 freshman. If they could get someone in the junior class to redshirt next year(not sure who, im sure people have their opinions) we would be 2,5,3,3. Still have that one class but starting to get things evened out.
My point is when Shyatt came abourd the classes were out of wack and it isn't easy to even them up. Does it suck? Yes. Is it the way Shyatt would prefer to have them set up? I really doubt it.

Fundamentally I don't agree with the premise that our problem is class balance (it is a contributor, but overall talent level is the main issue), but even if you accept class balance as our problem, I don't see how you can assign responsibility to anyone other than Larry Shyatt.

There hasn't been a Schroyer recruit on this team in the last 3 years. Shyatt recently signed his 6th recruiting class at UW. That has to be at least about the average tenure for a D1 coach. If a coach can't figure out how to balance his classes in 5 seasons, I don't know what to say.

We have unbalanced classes because we have lost a lot of frontcourt players to attrition, which is hardly unique in College Basketball, and we typically backfill those departures with other freshmen (instead of D1 or JC transfers, which pose there own risks of course).

Having said all of that, it's still mostly a talent issue from my perspective. How many players do we have with top tier MWC talent? Adams, James, anyone else? McManamen has made himself in to a very solid MWC player, but still limited athletically. Naughton has a bright future and should be a solid MWC starter. However, it looks like best case is that we get 3 or 4 guys to develop and build a strong starting cast in a couple of years, but where is the depth? That's what killed us each of the last 3 years.

There is nothing wrong with rebuilding years, and young teams, but much like with Bohl there is a difference between a rebuilding year and just being a bad team and we have crossed that threshold now.

 

[WilyWapiti]

I think we have at LEAST 4 young MWC-type potential talents on this team:

Naughton
Moemeka
Conway
James

I am REALLY looking forward to this lineup on the floor together a LOT in the next three years.

WW

 

[NowherePoke]

I think we have at LEAST 4 young MWC-type potential talents on this team:

Naughton
Moemeka
Conway
James

I am REALLY looking forward to this lineup on the floor together a LOT in the next three years.

WW

That's my hope as well, but I think we have to acknowledge that in order to not be able to be starters/contributors on this year's team that Conway/Moemeka must be very raw. Both have athleticism, which provides some nice long term potential, but until we see them as MWC contributors it will be hard to say.

James/Naughton are the core and should start together for the next 3 years I hope.

 

[TSpoke]

The balance of the classes isn't really Shyatts fault. He has been trying to correct it since he got here I believe. When he arrived with graduations and defections he had around 6 spots to fill on short notice. That first year he missed on quite a few but still landed some good ones. I think his redshirting strategy has been an attempt to balance the classes. With some early misses and defections it didn't allow them to get the classes balanced early. Even then it will take a while to get them straightend out. Sure he could have gotten a couple players solely to balcance classes but He still needs to get the players he wants in there. I think going forward things will get better. Next year we will have 2 seniors 6 juniors 2 sophmores and 3 freshman. If they could get someone in the junior class to redshirt next year(not sure who, im sure people have their opinions) we would be 2,5,3,3. Still have that one class but starting to get things evened out.
My point is when Shyatt came abourd the classes were out of wack and it isn't easy to even them up. Does it suck? Yes. Is it the way Shyatt would prefer to have them set up? I really doubt it.

Fundamentally I don't agree with the premise that our problem is class balance (it is a contributor, but overall talent level is the main issue), but even if you accept class balance as our problem, I don't see how you can assign responsibility to anyone other than Larry Shyatt.

There hasn't been a Schroyer recruit on this team in the last 3 years. Shyatt recently signed his 6th recruiting class at UW. That has to be at least about the average tenure for a D1 coach. If a coach can't figure out how to balance his classes in 5 seasons, I don't know what to say.

We have unbalanced classes because we have lost a lot of frontcourt players to attrition, which is hardly unique in College Basketball, and we typically backfill those departures with other freshmen (instead of D1 or JC transfers, which pose there own risks of course).

Having said all of that, it's still mostly a talent issue from my perspective. How many players do we have with top tier MWC talent? Adams, James, anyone else? McManamen has made himself in to a very solid MWC player, but still limited athletically. Naughton has a bright future and should be a solid MWC starter. However, it looks like best case is that we get 3 or 4 guys to develop and build a strong starting cast in a couple of years, but where is the depth? That's what killed us each of the last 3 years.

There is nothing wrong with rebuilding years, and young teams, but much like with Bohl there is a difference between a rebuilding year and just being a bad team and we have crossed that threshold now.

I was replying up thread to people saying balance of classes is a big issue. I think it is an issue but not a huge one. It will lead to ups and downs. Better to be balanced. My point with it not being Shyatts fault is that he had so many players to replace that first short recruiting period then the second one. They had to reach on some players that didn't work out that lead to more imbalance. It is finally starting to work itself out after this year.

I disagree with the talent. I think the overall talent level is increasing year by year. Are we in the upper reaches of the MWC yet? No but we are slowly moving up there. Look at how talent has developed under this coaching staff. I see more potential with these young guys than the guys that have graduated and I have completel faith in the staff to develop them to their full potential. And just continue to bring in better players each year and develop them. If you don't believe the young guys are any good or have any potential that's fine but we will see in a year or 2. I have faith.

 

[laxwyo]

A lot of schools have rebuilding years. We are no different. I don't see why people are going crazy about this season. We trusted shy in the early years and he won the MW tournament. We should keep trusting

 

[joshvanklomp]

A lot of schools have rebuilding years. We are no different. I don't see why people are going crazy about this season. We trusted shy in the early years and he won the MW tournament. We should keep trusting

Some people seem to think that since we won the MWCT, anything less than that is unacceptable from here on out.

 

[stymeman]

we're an NCAA team every 12-15, maybe 20 year team guess we'll just have to get used to that being it is what it is, sigh

 

[calpoke25]

A lot of schools have rebuilding years. We are no different. I don't see why people are going crazy about this season. We trusted shy in the early years and he won the MW tournament. We should keep trusting

Some people seem to think that since we won the MWCT, anything less than that is unacceptable from here on out.

Show me one post where someone has expressed that they believe that anything less than MW title is unacceptable. Please just show me one. I am OK with a rebuilding year or two. What is defined as a rebuilding year? To me that means being a .500 team in conference maybe. I'm not OK, ever, with being a bad team. Sorry folks but we are 5-9 in conference and 10-15 against D1 competition. We aren't a middle of the road team right now. We are a bottom tier team right now in 9th place in a 11 team league. we are wasting the senior year of an all time Wyoming great due to some gaping roster holes that remain unaddressed. Is this acceptable as a rebuilding year? To me that's not rebuilding, that's just being not a good team.

 

[Coeur d' Alene]

IF you frequent this board recently, there was a lengthy conversation on another post that he really ISNT that much different than his predecessors. There has never been a recruiter like Heath Shroyer. He just couldn't coach. And McClain, through his first 6 season, actually was very good winning 2 regular season MWC championships, an NCAA appearance with one victory. He also had multiple NIT appearances.

I know, I know. You can't always look at wins and losses and tournaments blah blah blah. My point is Shyatt has done nothing to show he's immune to criticism or a skeptics eye when compared to those before him who got ran out of town.

Is Thiam, desmar Jackson, M'baye,and AJ Davis , Afam moujeke really the most talented group ever put together at Wyoming? Is shroyer really so much better as a recruiter?


I liked that squads talent a lot.

 

[laxwyo]

A lot of schools have rebuilding years. We are no different. I don't see why people are going crazy about this season. We trusted shy in the early years and he won the MW tournament. We should keep trusting

Some people seem to think that since we won the MWCT, anything less than that is unacceptable from here on out.

Show me one post where someone has expressed that they believe that anything less than MW title is unacceptable. Please just show me one. I am OK with a rebuilding year or two. What is defined as a rebuilding year? To me that means being a .500 team in conference maybe. I'm not OK, ever, with being a bad team. Sorry folks but we are 5-9 in conference and 10-15 against D1 competition. We aren't a middle of the road team right now. We are a bottom tier team right now in 9th place in a 11 team league. we are wasting the senior year of an all time Wyoming great due to some gaping roster holes that remain unaddressed. Is this acceptable as a rebuilding year? To me that's not rebuilding, that's just being not a good team.

You're confused about reloading and rebuilding. It's ok to have a terrible year rebuilding. I'm not ok with back to back terrible years after you've built a program. I expect some leaps next year

 

[calpoke25]

A lot of schools have rebuilding years. We are no different. I don't see why people are going crazy about this season. We trusted shy in the early years and he won the MW tournament. We should keep trusting

Some people seem to think that since we won the MWCT, anything less than that is unacceptable from here on out.

Show me one post where someone has expressed that they believe that anything less than MW title is unacceptable. Please just show me one. I am OK with a rebuilding year or two. What is defined as a rebuilding year? To me that means being a .500 team in conference maybe. I'm not OK, ever, with being a bad team. Sorry folks but we are 5-9 in conference and 10-15 against D1 competition. We aren't a middle of the road team right now. We are a bottom tier team right now in 9th place in a 11 team league. we are wasting the senior year of an all time Wyoming great due to some gaping roster holes that remain unaddressed. Is this acceptable as a rebuilding year? To me that's not rebuilding, that's just being not a good team.

You're confused about reloading and rebuilding. It's ok to have a terrible year rebuilding. I'm not ok with back to back terrible years after you've built a program. I expect some leaps next year

I'm not confused, I think we have different definitions of the words though. Reloading is what SDSU does. Rebuilding can mean different things, but to me rebuilding is still maintaining a middle of the road team. I don't think being a 9th place team is ever acceptable, especially in Josh's senior year. That's beyond the acceptable floor of rebuilding to me. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect the lower level of our program to be a .500 team. I don't think dropping into the SJSU/AF tier of the MW is ever an acceptable thing.