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Recruiting or Coaching or Both

ragtimejoe1 said:
IMO, sub 100 offenses 4 out of 5 years is more than players. Other than Bohl, responsibility is at Vigen's feet regardless of why.

Bohl now knows what types of recruits are available to him and the competition level he faces. He has to find an offensive coach/talent evaluator/etc. that can succeed.

My only disappointment will be if Bohl sticks with Vigen. If that happens, start the clock. If Bohl makes adjustments to the staff, mainly moving Vigen around, then I'm fully on board with another 3+ years regardless.

Bohl's a good coach. He moved on from Stanard; hopefully he does the same with Vigen.
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One thing I've noticed the past couple of games is Bohl's demeanor on the sideline has changed. He is clearly expressing some frustration at times, and, perhaps it's just me, it seems to be when the offense is on or coming off the field. This could indicate a few different things, but my hope is that it's indicative of his awareness that something needs to be done with the offense and that he may recognize that a change could be necessary.

Could just be me, but for the first time since he's been in Laramie, it seems he's genuinely unhappy with the results on the field.
 
After sleeping on it, I don't think yesterday was nearly as much of a catastrophe as it felt like. I'm obviously not a fan of Vigen's, but I think yesterday's play calling was largely okay as we felt much more balanced and nowhere near as predictable offensively.

Yes, we didn't even manage 300 yards, but in this case I do believe quite a bit of it was on the shoulders of a freshman quarterback who still has things to learn, and who's getting chased around quite a bit because there's a couple of people on the line who have a really difficult time containing veteran defensive linemen.

TVW was pressured and sacked a LOT yesterday, yet almost none of his throws were risky. He made the wrong decision plenty of times in terms of trying to outrun the pressure rather than just throwing the ball away - OR, at least a three or four times, he needed to look past his primary target as we had TEs open on the other side of the field. But - all that is a learning thing. Same goes for touch on deeper balls. He still generally doesn't force throws into bad spots for easy picks, which at least in my opinion is a big plus. He also actually has a strong arm, which is another plus.

TVW and his receivers seem to click a little bit more week by week, which is a big freaking deal. The question is if they'll improve enough that it'll make a difference in the W-L column this year, obviously. I do think that's at least possible at this point. We've had a few drops that shouldn't have been so far, but hopefully that's changing soon as well. Again, I do think one of the biggest things we can improve on is if TVW quickly can recognize pressure and find his outlet rather than try to outrun the unblocked defenders. Our TEs are great, and a 5 yard gain beats a 10 yard sack 10 times out of 10. Not to mention, occasionally a TE will run over the defensive back covering him, and then you suddenly have a big play instead of a small gain.

Then we can look at the score itself. We allowed 34 against a veteran Boise offense with a QB who picks almost anybody apart. He went after our secondary big time, and their receivers still HAD to make more than a few amazing catches (sure, would be nice if we had that happen more often). Even so, Wilson gave them a TD, a certain punter fumbled once and had another punt blocked... that's 21 points just there (except our defense held on the fumbled punt).

We're not a good team, this year, unfortunately, but I do think we're actually seeing some improvements. I don't think this week's game vs Hawai'i is an automatic loss anymore.
 
Wyoklaelk said:
ismail, conway, mayfield have shown they can get open, ..
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Getting open by a step is different than making a catch...I love those guys you mentioned but none of them are making the catches we just saw the Boise State receivers making yesterday. I miss the days when we had receivers that went up and got the ball... Couple of those bsu guys displayed some great sticky hands and the ability to contend with a defender and come down with the ball.
 
Wyoklaelk said:
ismail, conway, mayfield have shown they can get open, but rarely run a route that isnt a hitch or out route or more than 5 yds downfield. nico only gets 14 carries??? all up the middle....

there is enough talent, not enough plays to exploit a weakness. get Ismail on a lb or slow safety, get conway downfield, let mayfield do a seam against a lb, run nico more when there is only 7 in the box, these are plays that result when you know how to gameplan for a team. our offense is set up that we are going to run up the middle and establish the run and then do play action off that regardless who the opponent is....doesn't always work and you need to be able to adapt in game, find a matchup yiu like, set the play up to exploit that matchup, etc.

none of that, we will run 5 plays, if they dont work, we will suck

ita offensive play calling, lack of understanding how to get good matchups and exploit defenses weaknesses
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Literally everything in the passing game isn’t to the sidelines? Why
 
“Pro style offense” doesn’t have to mean running the ball in the A gap with a fullback leading the way. Modern pro offenses, see LA Rams, KC Chiefs, etc use the pass to establish the run later.
 
Wyoklaelk said:
ismail, conway, mayfield have shown they can get open, but rarely run a route that isnt a hitch or out route or more than 5 yds downfield. nico only gets 14 carries??? all up the middle....

there is enough talent, not enough plays to exploit a weakness. get Ismail on a lb or slow safety, get conway downfield, let mayfield do a seam against a lb, run nico more when there is only 7 in the box, these are plays that result when you know how to gameplan for a team. our offense is set up that we are going to run up the middle and establish the run and then do play action off that regardless who the opponent is....doesn't always work and you need to be able to adapt in game, find a matchup yiu like, set the play up to exploit that matchup, etc.

none of that, we will run 5 plays, if they dont work, we will suck

ita offensive play calling, lack of understanding how to get good matchups and exploit defenses weaknesses
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When you have 6'7 and 6'6 tight ends and 6'5 and 6'6 Wide outs, you should use them for physical mismatches. The fact that Boise didn't have a db on the field taller than 5'11 and they all got exposed against taller receivers at Oklahoma State was a scouting gift that Vigen ignored. Nico is showing us that past coaching decisions, not his abilities kept him off the field. They got lucky with the whole Brock Jensen thing. But there is no way he was the better quarterback than Carson Wentz. We will never know what TVW could do at QB because of poor game plans. We saw what Nick could do last year, but given the coaching failures, he may deserve another look.
 
specialteamsguru said:
Wyoklaelk said:
ismail, conway, mayfield have shown they can get open, but rarely run a route that isnt a hitch or out route or more than 5 yds downfield. nico only gets 14 carries??? all up the middle....

there is enough talent, not enough plays to exploit a weakness. get Ismail on a lb or slow safety, get conway downfield, let mayfield do a seam against a lb, run nico more when there is only 7 in the box, these are plays that result when you know how to gameplan for a team. our offense is set up that we are going to run up the middle and establish the run and then do play action off that regardless who the opponent is....doesn't always work and you need to be able to adapt in game, find a matchup yiu like, set the play up to exploit that matchup, etc.

none of that, we will run 5 plays, if they dont work, we will suck

ita offensive play calling, lack of understanding how to get good matchups and exploit defenses weaknesses
Click to expand...

When you have 6'7 and 6'6 tight ends and 6'5 and 6'6 Wide outs, you should use them for physical mismatches. The fact that Boise didn't have a db on the field taller than 5'11 and they all got exposed against taller receivers at Oklahoma State was a scouting gift that Vigen ignored. Nico is showing us that past coaching decisions, not his abilities kept him off the field. They got lucky with the whole Brock Jensen thing. But there is no way he was the better quarterback than Carson Wentz. We will never know what TVW could do at QB because of poor game plans. We saw what Nick could do last year, but given the coaching failures, he may deserve another look.
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This. I sat there and watched Jared Scott lineup one-on-one against a DB that looked like he came up to his waist, with no safety help in sight. It's a joke Vigen doesn't use him more. In fact, he loves to broadcast it's a run, cause Scott only comes on the field during run plays to block.

I'm confident there is a coordinator out there that can get us top 75 in offense with the current talent, which sadly would be a major fucking improvement.
 
Wyovanian said:
ragtimejoe1 said:
IMO, sub 100 offenses 4 out of 5 years is more than players. Other than Bohl, responsibility is at Vigen's feet regardless of why.

Bohl now knows what types of recruits are available to him and the competition level he faces. He has to find an offensive coach/talent evaluator/etc. that can succeed.

My only disappointment will be if Bohl sticks with Vigen. If that happens, start the clock. If Bohl makes adjustments to the staff, mainly moving Vigen around, then I'm fully on board with another 3+ years regardless.

Bohl's a good coach. He moved on from Stanard; hopefully he does the same with Vigen.
Click to expand...
One thing I've noticed the past couple of games is Bohl's demeanor on the sideline has changed. He is clearly expressing some frustration at times, and, perhaps it's just me, it seems to be when the offense is on or coming off the field. This could indicate a few different things, but my hope is that it's indicative of his awareness that something needs to be done with the offense and that he may recognize that a change could be necessary.

Could just be me, but for the first time since he's been in Laramie, it seems he's genuinely unhappy with the results on the field.
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I hope so. Having terrible offenses in 4 out of 5 years is indefensible. This really does remind me of Glenn and Cockhill. I never understood why Joe liked him so much, but after year 5, Joe had to move on. Unfortunately, 1 year wasn't enough for Cole to turn things around. Honestly, I'm not sure he (Cole) was the best hire.

The OC decision next year might be one of the most important coaching decisions in WYO history (obviously not the most, but it is up there).
 
LanderPoke said:
Is there any conceivable scenario that Vigen is back next year?
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Honestly, I'm worried that we stick with Vigen.

I'm sure it is not plausible, but I think we need an old war horse. Maybe had HC experience but definitely has lots of experience recruiting and lots of experience in FBS. I don't think we have the juice (financially or reputation) to draw in what we need. I'm thinking along the lines of Tim Brewster. If we add another FCS coach, it won't work.

The right OC is critical. We also need to evaluate the Athletic Dept. Is there something that can be improved to help the coaches succeed?
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
LanderPoke said:
Is there any conceivable scenario that Vigen is back next year?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm worried that we stick with Vigen.

I'm sure it is not plausible, but I think we need an old war horse. Maybe had HC experience but definitely has lots of experience recruiting and lots of experience in FBS. I don't think we have the juice (financially or reputation) to draw in what we need. I'm thinking along the lines of Tim Brewster. If we add another FCS coach, it won't work.

The right OC is critical. We also need to evaluate the Athletic Dept. Is there something that can be improved to help the coaches succeed?
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I know it'll never happen, but I would love to see Bouknight come over from USU. He's currently the co-offensive coordinator with them and coaches the outside receivers. But their offense doesn't really jive with Bohl's 3 yards and a cloud of dust philosophy.
 
We will drop 45 million on the HPAC but I’m sure we will hire bottommof the barrel salary wise OC. You get what you pay for, in both facilities and coaches. Facilities don’t win championships, people do.

We better stop skimping on the people part.
 
This all starts at the top. The Wyoming football program will never have sustained success unless the admin and board change their entire philosophy and make an unwavering commitment to do whatever it takes to be the best. No excuses. Until then we this is what we get. A good season here or there, mediocre or terrible the rest of the time.
 
poke em said:
This all starts at the top. The Wyoming football program will never have sustained success unless the admin and board change their entire philosophy and make an unwavering commitment to do whatever it takes to be the best. No excuses. Until then we this is what we get. A good season here or there, mediocre or terrible the rest of the time.
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I'm curious in what ways you think they aren't doing this already? Besides the already stated frustration with certain members of the coaching staff, they seem to be doing a lot to try to win, facilities, resources, etc.
 
If Wyoming loses the next 3 games but then wins the last 4 and finishes 6-6 and makes a bowl game I'm sure Vigen will be back.

The other problem is that if we go a different route on offense, one that scores quicker, that doesn't fit Bohl's style of wanting to win the time of possession battle and control the clock. So not sure Bohl will switch coordinators anyways.

One would hope he see's the light but maybe he is stuck in his ways with regards to his philosophy.
 
WestWYOPoke said:
poke em said:
This all starts at the top. The Wyoming football program will never have sustained success unless the admin and board change their entire philosophy and make an unwavering commitment to do whatever it takes to be the best. No excuses. Until then we this is what we get. A good season here or there, mediocre or terrible the rest of the time.
Click to expand...

I'm curious in what ways you think they aren't doing this already? Besides the already stated frustration with certain members of the coaching staff, they seem to be doing a lot to try to win, facilities, resources, etc.
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I think that the facility improvements are pretty good...definitely don't hurt. Somebody posted that facilities don't win championships..people do..I think that is probably closer to the truth. The highest correlation to college foot ball success is coaches compensation .... not just head coach either. I'm pretty sure that the political climate in Wyoming makes a meaningful bump in that category difficult to pull off.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
I'm pretty sure that the political climate in Wyoming makes a meaningful bump in that category difficult to pull off.
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https://wyonation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18026
:cool:
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That is an interesting notion...one I've not heard of. Is this common? And if so...at what level? Just the highest levels?
 
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