Reality

[ragtimejoe1]

Ragtime, you just jogged something in my brain. I was a dorm director when I was there.... We had a ton of kids drop out after their first semester... They never intended to go to college, but the Hathaway scholarship made it super cheap for kids to come for a semester, spend time at the Buckhorn, and then go back to farming/or JUCO as they always intended. When kids were kicked out or dropped out of school, they lost their housing, and I got to have some really interesting conversations with them.

Also, do you really think some of the things that are being discussed can't be changed?

Great point about the Hathaway. Freshmen need skin in the game, imo. Programs need to be enough to get them started and rewards better as they progress.

Things we can't control or at least not easily/quickly, are population, proximity to recruits for athletics, urbanization of Laramie, industry in the state, etc.

We can control being the best UW can be which means being a destination for certain positions, degrees, and even athletics but it would take a focus on that and leveraging the unique position UW is in by being the only 4 year school. Some things are easy and some are hard. Start with empty buildings or classrooms. There is a point where being empty costs more than some level of subsidizing or reducing cost to fill up. Obviously there's a point of diminishing returns as well, but these both need to be clearly defined. Tuition, scholarships, etc. need to be targeted accordingly. We are already subsidizing the buildings, instructors, etc., so is there a financial model where cost to the student is reduced but more financially sustainable to the University by increasing enrollment. UW and many universities tend to focus more on eliminating or consolidating majors instead of positioning the major to be more competitive.

I've said it a lot, so nothing new, but i think WYO is positioned to create "Endowments for Excellence". The state could put in big chunks of cash over the next 10 to 15 years to create endowment accounts to strategically supplement university functions. The state maintains the principle and say 1% while remaining annual revenue supplements UW. An endowment that pays 3-5 million annually for UW faculty research would be a huge carrot for faculty recruitment, success, and retention. Same could be done for athletics for revenue share and coaches salaries. If these accounts are established and rolling, it could also help solicit donations to supplement them.

I'm sure people smarter than me have a lot of options. Sometimes it takes investments that lose initially but build a brand of excellence that then pays dividends down the road. As someone said above, Wyoming is so scared they're going to pay a freeloader looking for a cushy job that they ignore the possibilities of rewards from paying ambitious and intelligent people that can move things forward.

 

[Brew_Poke]

UNM participates in the WUE program which offers reduced tuition to Colorado residents, but is typically not at in-state rates. Usually it is 150% of the in-state tuition.

The University of Wyoming already participates in the WUE program as well. Even now, if Colorado residents want to attend UW, they can with tuition just a little over $12k per year. I'm not sure how much more we can discount tuition to Colorado residents without UW taking a loss or the State of Wyoming subsidizing the difference.

Amigo scholarship.

 

[bladerunnr]

UNM participates in the WUE program which offers reduced tuition to Colorado residents, but is typically not at in-state rates. Usually it is 150% of the in-state tuition.

The University of Wyoming already participates in the WUE program as well. Even now, if Colorado residents want to attend UW, they can with tuition just a little over $12k per year. I'm not sure how much more we can discount tuition to Colorado residents without UW taking a loss or the State of Wyoming subsidizing the difference.

For the life of me, I will never understand why tuition is 300-400 dollars per credit hour. If I'm sitting in a classroom with 30 other students paying roughly 1k for a 3 credit hour class, someone is making a crap load of money. The school makes 30k in tuition and the professor (assuming 80-100k salary) makes about 10k to teach that class (assuming he teaches 8-10 classes per year). There is no way there should be 20k in admin expenses for that class. Not to mention the fact that many classes are taught by GTA's and adjunct professors who make next to nothing. Yet no one seems to question this. How much administrative padding is there in these universities?

 

[TheRealUW]

For the life of me, I will never understand why tuition is 300-400 dollars per credit hour. If I'm sitting in a classroom with 30 other students paying roughly 1k for a 3 credit hour class, someone is making a crap load of money. The school makes 30k in tuition and the professor (assuming 80-100k salary) makes about 10k to teach that class (assuming he teaches 8-10 classes per year). There is no way there should be 20k in admin expenses for that class. Not to mention the fact that many classes are taught by GTA's and adjunct professors who make next to nothing. Yet no one seems to question this. How much administrative padding is there in these universities?

Oh, I agree with you. Administrative costs have ballooned and are the primary driver of the increases in college tuitions we have seen in the US over the past few decades. I don't pretend to know why that has occurred or what the fix is, but it is a major problem that needs addressed. As a side note, it also one of the major reasons healthcare costs have gotten so out of control in the US as well.

Don't quote me on this, but I seem to remember UW saying they need about $13k per full-time-equivalent (FTE) student at the university just to break even. In-state tuition is a little over $8k, so the state makes up the difference with their funding. My understanding is that UW is mostly breaking even on students who come under the WUE program. Out-of-state student tuitions are the cash cow.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

For the life of me, I will never understand why tuition is 300-400 dollars per credit hour. If I'm sitting in a classroom with 30 other students paying roughly 1k for a 3 credit hour class, someone is making a crap load of money. The school makes 30k in tuition and the professor (assuming 80-100k salary) makes about 10k to teach that class (assuming he teaches 8-10 classes per year). There is no way there should be 20k in admin expenses for that class. Not to mention the fact that many classes are taught by GTA's and adjunct professors who make next to nothing. Yet no one seems to question this. How much administrative padding is there in these universities?

Just some information to help here (I’m not disagreeing that administrative costs are too high):
1) I don’t believe any professors teach that many classes. Most teach 1 or 2 classes a semester given their research requirement. Some lecturers (non tenure track) teach more but I don’t think they even teach that many classes typically.
2) 30 is probably high for average class size. Freshman courses often have high enrollments but junior/senior level courses are often significantly smaller.
3) I don’t think many full time professors make under 100K; however, their salaries are often funded in large part by research dollars and grants. You aren’t going to attract very appealing candidates at 80K (think folks who have no chance to get hired anywhere else).
4) Fixed building costs and maintenance are the highest costs of education I believe.

 

[doreno5]

Admin costs are too high. Agreed.

Lets start by cutting Burman and replacing him with someone earning less

 

[TheRealUW]

Amigo scholarship.

I could have sworn the Amigo scholarship was for international students only. I’ll trust you though.

Scholarships are privately funded and UNM is paid full out of state tuition, or close to it, once you factor the scholarship in. This is in contrast to simply lowering tuition and having the university eat the loss or the state making up the difference.

If UW wants to target Colorado students by offering scholarships that limit applicants to only Colorado high school graduates, I am OK with that. But I am still not OK with offering them such a reduced tuition that it requires UW to take a loss or the Wyoming tax payers to fund the difference. In the long run, that does not benefit UW or the state of Wyoming in any way.

 

[LanderPoke]

When people say things like "you are not loyal to Wyoming"...it's hard to read that as anything but an insult centered around an accusation of disloyalty. Maybe you don't hold any moral value to things like loyalty but a lot of people fee a bit insulted when somebody calls them disloyal.

Movement of people for economic reasons is as old as time. I don't begrudge anybody for trying to make a better life for themselves. If it ever was the goal, Wyoming as a state has not succeeded in diversifying it's economy to the point of being an attractive destination for bright young people. The University of Wyoming should be a driver of progress and development for creating that destination. To the extent that Wyoming continues to look (economically) like Alaska or North Dakota, our institutions will look like that as well. There is nothing inherently wrong with that...it just is what it is.

It’s as valid an argument as UW, or Wyoming”owing” someone a job or career