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Progress?

When Kansas and I "debated" build timelines, it was pretty obvious that 3 or 4 years is a critical mark. Not every team that hit 7 wins by year 4 went on a successful run but hardly any successful build took over 4 years to reach 7+ wins.

I'm fully on board still and I don't believe this year's record will predict next year's as long as we don't start getting torched.

However, if we aren't at 7+ wins next year, then I think the Bohl experiment failed. For once, I agree with Kansas, if Bohl fails I think it is an indication that WYO can't compete in modern football.
 
McPeachy said:
kansasCowboy said:
...but I'm starting to think Wyoming is over anyone's head...
Click to expand...

Ouch!

It wasn't over Erickson's, Roach's, Tiller's, or Dimel's head. It certainly - clearly - was over Vic's. I think Glenn's demise was his OC, and he was too loyal, too late. Glenn didn't have the budget either (that Dickface was given). Dickface was clearly all ego and attitude...a recipe for disaster from day 1 (that should have been sniffed out in the interview process).

Now, we have 'ol Bohly...and the jury is still out (unfortunately). Gotta give him 4 more though - if he can get through to his coordinators (or make changes). If not, he needs to call Burman up, so they can arrange to help each other pack their shit.

Jack Graham hired McElwain with a goal in mind. He bumped the salary from Fairchild by double, increased the assistant salary pool by almost double, increased the recruiting budget by 6 figures, and was hell bent on making those green and gold turds winners. And it worked. Compare that to UW and Burman.
Click to expand...

Erickson, Roach, Tiller, and even Dimel, were coaches in a completely different landscape of college football. The world of D-1A (FBS) football has changed so much just in the last 20 years, that it's like comparing apples to oranges.

I DO think that Wyoming can be a winner again, but there is no way it will happen in a 2-3 year span. UW is a school now that success will take a large chunk of time to achieve. IMO, best case scenario is a 4-5 year turnaround. This is why firing someone after 4 years is jumping the gun as they will need that time, plus some, to show if they can be succesful in Laramie or not.

To put it succinctly, if you want immediate results, go watch the SEC. If you want to see Wyo return to success, hunker down, wait and see; it won't happen overnight, but if it does, it will take a few years.
 
WestWYOPoke said:
McPeachy said:
kansasCowboy said:
...but I'm starting to think Wyoming is over anyone's head...
Click to expand...

Ouch!

It wasn't over Erickson's, Roach's, Tiller's, or Dimel's head. It certainly - clearly - was over Vic's. I think Glenn's demise was his OC, and he was too loyal, too late. Glenn didn't have the budget either (that Dickface was given). Dickface was clearly all ego and attitude...a recipe for disaster from day 1 (that should have been sniffed out in the interview process).

Now, we have 'ol Bohly...and the jury is still out (unfortunately). Gotta give him 4 more though - if he can get through to his coordinators (or make changes). If not, he needs to call Burman up, so they can arrange to help each other pack their shit.

Jack Graham hired McElwain with a goal in mind. He bumped the salary from Fairchild by double, increased the assistant salary pool by almost double, increased the recruiting budget by 6 figures, and was hell bent on making those green and gold turds winners. And it worked. Compare that to UW and Burman.
Click to expand...

Erickson, Roach, Tiller, and even Dimel, were coaches in a completely different landscape of college football. The world of D-1A (FBS) football has changed so much just in the last 20 years, that it's like comparing apples to oranges.

I DO think that Wyoming can be a winner again, but there is no way it will happen in a 2-3 year span. UW is a school now that success will take a large chunk of time to achieve. IMO, best case scenario is a 4-5 year turnaround. This is why firing someone after 4 years is jumping the gun as they will need that time, plus some, to show if they can be succesful in Laramie or not.

To put it succinctly, if you want immediate results, go watch the SEC. If you want to see Wyo return to success, hunker down, wait and see; it won't happen overnight, but if it does, it will take a few years.
Click to expand...

For years I've preached giving coaches more time. I've debated and brought up hall of fame coaches that took 6 + years of losing records before they even seen a hint of success in their career. Why do I think WYO will not make it? Because before we give Bohl that opportunity, we will get rid of him. Wyo is impatient. I said it about Koenning, he wasn't a great coach, but by year three instead of losing by blowouts, like the previous two years, even though he went 2-10, the majority of those losses were by less than a TD. He had major improvement. We tossed him before he could truly have a chance at succeeding. Bohl is right there with Koenning right now, and after 13 years everyone is finally saying, "he needs time. Give him 4-8 years." And even though fans are starting to buy in to the "taking time" idea, will Burman or UW? Burman will want to save his ass, as he somehow has his entire career.
Glenn got six years and DC got five. I know DC coached half ass his last year because he already knew the nail was in the coffin for him, you could hear it in his postgame interviews. He didn't care about that last year. "I know we were on the wrong end of the score at the end of this one, but it sure was a fun one to coach..." DC after losing in a shootout after SJSU. The year before we had injuries out the ass on O and D, which stymied us on the win side and we limped to 4-8. 4-8. After just coming off 8-5 and a bowl game. And he is at risk after one down year after getting us to a bowl? What coach would want that?
Bohl should get a year four barring him not matching or having one more win than last year. And the. He gets a tough OOC schedule next year with probably less talent star wise. We will be out our two top wrs. Our top TE. Probably Hill and Wick. And that's just the O side. Who do we have to replace these guys?
Overstreet? Evans? Neither have rushed for over 100 yards in their career. What about wideouts? Parker? Johnson? Mayfield? Pretty sure their numbers are quite minimal as well. This year we are relying on these go to guys to get it done. What happens in year four when even those guys couldn't get it done this year? Will everyone finally lose patience? Seems like an average of 2,000 fans already have considering we only average 18k this year at home. If that number drops, even more this year, that will be a big problem for Bohl.
So, will UW and its fanbase have patience. Or will Bohl just be the next guy tossed, before he even got any real momentum?
16 years. 16 years and we keep losing because we toss coaches before they can even try to turn things around.
 
Kansas Cowboy, I'm not going to copy your post. I think some of it is spot on but I don't agree with your conclusions. Regarding Vic: He was a not a good game day coach. And for a defensive guy, we gave up a ton of points every year of his tenure. The writing was on the wall with Glenn after it became clear he could not recruit d1 talent on offense. We went through 1 qb after another, many of them not really d1 talent - Dax Crum and Stutzreim come to mind. Plus, Glenn never brought in a game breaker to stretch the defense. Giving him more time was not the answer.

As an outsider to the personality issues that have been mentioned regarding Dave Christensen, I only know what he brought to the table. ACS, Alexander, Herron, Josh Doctson, Bret Smith, and we had the makings of really great offense. I think Doctson leaving after his freshman year really hurt Smith. It's strange how his last year went. We lose at Texas state, then barely beat a bad New Mexico team. Then csewe came into Laramie and beat the hell out of us. I never saw us play less inspired - like the team didn't care anymore. I don't see how we could keep him when it seemed like he lost the team.

Bohl seems to have stepped into a perfect situation. The bar has been set so low that I can barely believe what I'm seeing on this board. Last year, nearly every game we played was settled by half time. It's hard for me to see the improvement this year except we have been in every game going to the 4th qtr. I think we could lose every conference game this year and Bohl would still get a 4th year. I don't know how it will all play out but I see the same issues regarding this team as last years - no game breaker on offense and lousy offensive line play. Csewe will blitz the house and dare us to beat them deep - something we are not very good at. I will be very interested to see our game plan to keep them honest.
 
5 years for a coach is plenty to know if they can succeed, the fact Glenn was here 6 years and DC for 5 does show patience imo. DC can't even get a job now, and he wasn't an effective head coach.
This is Bohl's 3rd year, only a few people are advocating getting rid of him. He almost certainly will be here thru next year. I'm looking more long term but I am disappointed in some things thus far. I think Bohl is a good coach, but is he too stubborn to modify his offense to his personnel?
If you go look at college football coaches, even successful coaches get fired. Thats the lay of the land.
 
kansasCowboy said:
....but I'm starting to think Wyoming is over anyone's head...
Click to expand...

I'm embarrassed to admit ... this thought has been rattling around in my head lately as well. The list of High achieving Cowboy football teams doesn't include any from the modern era. I know that College football has changed tremendously in the last 20 years, but what changes, specifically, have made it so difficult to win here?
 
307bball said:
kansasCowboy said:
....but I'm starting to think Wyoming is over anyone's head...
Click to expand...

I'm embarrassed to admit ... this thought has been rattling around in my head lately as well. The list of High achieving Cowboy football teams doesn't include any from the modern era. I know that College football has changed tremendously in the last 20 years, but what changes, specifically, have made it so difficult to win here?
Click to expand...
Bad coaching hires for one. Wyoming was competitive up until Vic Koenning. Vic, by winning 5 games in 3 years took the program back decades. Joe had some success (especially against BCS teams), but in the end, his offense's weren't good enough. DC was able to bring in good QB's and had a decent offense, but his defenses suffered. Crap happens.

When you look at peer programs, most are in the same boat. Only a couple have history of sustained success.....mainly Boise and Air Force to a lesser degree. Of all non BCS schools, only Boise and BYU have had sustained success. The concept behind "build it and they will come" is playing out right now. Get this program back on track and Bohl will make sure we have continued success.

We're lucky we aren't fans of New Mexico for example. They haven't won an outright conference title since the 1960's. They did win a divisional title in 1997 however.

We are getting back to being a competitive program. The team, although still young, has improved. And, will continue to improve. Hopefully some of our fans will have the needed patience to see the rebuild through.

We're only 4 games into the season and have matched our win total from last year. And, of our two losses, one of closer than the final score and the other was winnable.

Go Pokes!!
 
307bball said:
kansasCowboy said:
....but I'm starting to think Wyoming is over anyone's head...
Click to expand...

I'm embarrassed to admit ... this thought has been rattling around in my head lately as well. The list of High achieving Cowboy football teams doesn't include any from the modern era. I know that College football has changed tremendously in the last 20 years, but what changes, specifically, have made it so difficult to win here?
Click to expand...

Conference realignment and the BCS label for 1. That label automatically designates us (now G5 label) as second class citizens. Then add in budgets. We used to be ahead of csu in budgets. Lots of teams surpassed us. They spend more and recruit more. When budgets got out of hand, we have a small population and small student enrollment making revenue generation difficult, especially without vision. We focused on facilities and ignored people. We overvalued the benefit of shiny buildings and undervalued the importance of salary to bring in top notch people.

We were part of a surging MWC after BCS crelation but trying to compete with schools spending double what we were. Now the MWC is nothing relevant and we have no real recruiting advantage over the Sun Belt or other G5. Without the budget, without the prestige, without some level of success, Laramie is even harder to recruit to. Without a tv market or big alumni base or big student enrollment numbers, revenue generation is tough. It has been an ugly road since the late 80s and early 90s.
 
WyoExpat said:
It seems Les Miles is now available. But maybe he is too run-oriented to be acceptable in Laramie?
Click to expand...

...that would be going against everything we were just talking about with being patient with a coach.
 
kdwrightuwyo said:
WestWYOPoke said:
Les Miles??? We can't afford him.
Click to expand...
Says who? A job may be better than no job. Though his buy out may keep him fat and happy for a while.
Click to expand...

His next job (if it's coaching and not as an analyst), will be a Head job getting at least $2 million, or as an offensive coordinator at a big time program making $1.5 million or more. Either way he is making considerably more than we are paying Bohl.
 
marcuswyo said:
This is progress. I will be happy to eat crow if last week was just a growing pain! Go pokes!
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