Pacific

[NowherePoke]

The big surprise this year is how poor our shooting is. We are shooting only .328 from 3-point range. That is compared to .372 last year.

This team is built around multiple perimeter shooting threats (JMac, Gorski, Herndon, Lieberman, Dalton, etc.), particularly with Adams injured. If those guys aren't making shots, we are SOL big time.

That was the nightmare scenario coming into the season. Without Josh Adams ability to draw defenses, would the quality of looks decline to the point that we shot a low percentage and that is what has happened. JMac has gone from 44% to 29% on 3-point shots.

I do think Lou Adams will be a tremendous help when healthy and while it certainly falls under the category of "ifs and buts", I think we probably win last night with a healthy Adams. His ability to get to the rim and draw fouls (which wouldn't have been hard last night, sheesh) would have been a big help and maybe just as important would be his ability to soak up minutes that were otherwise going to Kelley/Lieberman.

I missed on Lieberman, I thought he could be our starting PG. I pushed back on the Grabau comparisons, because Lieberman was never as steady with the ball as Grabau, but I thought he could be a plus perimeter shooter and provide decent ball handling. He has really regressed and is hurting the team on both sides of the floor when he plays.

As the season moves on, I look for more lineups that feature Adams and JJ.

 

[joshvanklomp]

The big surprise this year is how poor our shooting is. We are shooting only .328 from 3-point range. That is compared to .372 last year.

That was at 36.7% going into last night, so not far off from last year's clip. A 5-26 night will do serious damage to a percentage.

 

[NowherePoke]

The big surprise this year is how poor our shooting is. We are shooting only .328 from 3-point range. That is compared to .372 last year.

That was at 36.7% going into last night, so not far off from last year's clip. A 5-26 night will do serious damage to a percentage.

Pokes haven't topped 33% against a D-1 opponent yet. They shot 14-32 against Western State, but that is not representative of the types of teams they will play the rest of the year. Here are their shooting numbers against D-1 opponents:

Montana: 9-28
SDSU: 10-30
Pacific: 5-26

Overall - 24-84 (28.5%)

Even before last night's game, the team had not been shooting well. I think it is more a reflection of the quality of shots than their shooting abilities. We aren't generating open looks with dribble penetration and ball movement. No easy fix.

We need a healthy Lou Adams and we have to execute better.

 

[LanderPoke]

We need Morris Marshall! lol. But, seriously, can we get him some minutes? How could M. Marshall possibly be worse than Lieberman and Kelly?

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

We need Morris Marshall! lol. But, seriously, can we get him some minutes? How could M. Marshall possibly be worse than Lieberman and Kelly?

OR AVERBUCK!!!

 

[TSpoke]

We need Morris Marshall! lol. But, seriously, can we get him some minutes? How could M. Marshall possibly be worse than Lieberman and Kelly?

As has been mentioned several times in this thread. He is still nursing an injury which has limited his game time.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

We need Morris Marshall! lol. But, seriously, can we get him some minutes? How could M. Marshall possibly be worse than Lieberman and Kelly?

As has been mentioned several times in this thread. He is still nursing an injury which has limited his game time.

Did he come into the season hurt or did he hurt it wracking up his 6 minutes so far?

 

[LanderPoke]

We need Morris Marshall! lol. But, seriously, can we get him some minutes? How could M. Marshall possibly be worse than Lieberman and Kelly?

As has been mentioned several times in this thread. He is still nursing an injury which has limited his game time.

OK. But playing in the first two games is a weird way to get over a nagging injury.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

I didn't see the game but reading this thread gives me a good idea of how it went down. We knew that we were gonna take lumps this season, especially on the road. Isn't Adams in our top 5 players??? The team needs his ability to slash, create, and handle the rock more. Not having a guy like that being able to give minutes is debilitating for squad a little top heavy on shooters. Not hitting your ass with both hands and getting jobbed on the road, well hey that can happen any time. They're gonna have to eek out road wins wherever they can snatch em.

Sounds like if this team had Conway on it that it'd be potentially dangerous this year. I've already written in length about trying to get him back into the team, but I'm sure everyone around the situation knows better then my wishful thinking. They are gonna have to PG by committee with a lot of different lineups. This is gonna be one of Edwards big tasks this season. It'll be a weakness that'll be exposed against strong, athletic backcourts. There's enough depth on this team to try to counter act this enough to not be a massive failure season. I'm interested in the Herndon guard/rock handler scenario since that would really allow us to get creative in lineups.

 

[joshvanklomp]

Adams and Marshall are hurt. This seems to be hard for people to understand even after it's been stated multiple times over the past week or two, so let me repeat myself....

Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.
Adams and Marshall are hurt.



Any questions?

 

[joshvanklomp]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/rpgagliardi/status/801479940235526148[/tweet]

 

[TSpoke]

We need Morris Marshall! lol. But, seriously, can we get him some minutes? How could M. Marshall possibly be worse than Lieberman and Kelly?

As has been mentioned several times in this thread. He is still nursing an injury which has limited his game time.

Did he come into the season hurt or did he hurt it wracking up his 6 minutes so far?

He came into the season nursing an injury and I guess reagrivated during practice or they tried the games to see if he could go and decided that he couldn't. Edwards said today that they are both possible to play on Friday.

 

[Cuttslam]

We are shooting the 3 ball horrible also 2-13 from 3 land. I hope Adams get back soon and I hope Adams and Justin James get to bring the ball up the court the majority of the time. Our PG situation isn't very good right now letting Lieberman and Kelley play. Some may disagree with me but neither one of them is doing much to help us at this point.

Yeah. They're both D-II level players. We have 2-3 players getting huge minute right now that should be like 5 min/game-type guys.

Cody Kelley fine, but Lieberman is better than a D2 level guy.

I would disagree with you on that. Black Hills State yes Wyoming not so much.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

I hope Mo Marshall can contribute this year. Just for that dude's sake I'm rooting for him. Mo is still a total mystery right now. The high 5 has been hitting with force this year. Dalton and JJ are top 4 guys in the rotation (if not our best players). I'm really excited about Momeka's future too. He looks like the kind player we've been missing for years. If Mo Marshall blindsides us with some fireworks it'd be DOPE. Then we'd only have to wait on that surprise Conway walk on bid after football season :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Who says stoners can't get anything accomplished?

 

[joshvanklomp]

I would disagree with you on that. Black Hills State yes Wyoming not so much.

Wyoming isn't the lowest quality of Division I out there. You telling me he couldn't be a decent player at a Big Sky school?

 

[NowherePoke]

We need Morris Marshall! lol. But, seriously, can we get him some minutes? How could M. Marshall possibly be worse than Lieberman and Kelly?

As has been mentioned several times in this thread. He is still nursing an injury which has limited his game time.

Did he come into the season hurt or did he hurt it wracking up his 6 minutes so far?

He came into the season nursing an injury and I guess reagrivated during practice or they tried the games to see if he could go and decided that he couldn't. Edwards said today that they are both possible to play on Friday.

Yeah, Edwards mentioned after the SDSU game that Marshall had either gotten hurt or reaggravated the injury during practice and was in street clothes for that game.

I can't believe how difficult this has been for some to understand. Adams took a pretty good shot to the Ribs against Montana and both he and Marshall have not dressed for the last two games due to their injuries. It isn't some strange conspiracy by Edwards to play Lieberman and Kelley, the other guys are just hurt. (I would probably argue he still played Lieberman/Kelley too much, but still)

 

[Wyo2dal]

When I try to compare Lieberman and Grabau my biggest issue and what I see to be the biggest difference is Grabau knew his size and his place. He didn't try to drive to the paint when he had no business trying to.

Grabau would play to his extremely strong points if he knew he could get to the line he would find a way to get there. Lieberman on the other hand constantly has to force his way into the paint when he shouldn't be. He doesn't play to his strong point which is outside of the paint.

I hope as time progresses he learns what his strong point is and he sticks with it. He doesn't have the athleticism to create shots off the dribble or to play inside with both bigger and more athletic players.

It's early in the season and as much as I wanted to believe the growing pains wouldn't be this painful now I'm admitting this is going to be a growing pain season anytime Adams, Naughton and JJ aren't on the floor together we're in for lengthy games and disappointing nights.

 

[Cosmic Cowboy]

When I try to compare Lieberman and Grabau my biggest issue and what I see to be the biggest difference is Grabau knew his size and his place. He didn't try to drive to the paint when he had no business trying to.

Grabau would play to his extremely strong points if he knew he could get to the line he would find a way to get there. Lieberman on the other hand constantly has to force his way into the paint when he shouldn't be. He doesn't play to his strong point which is outside of the paint.

I hope as time progresses he learns what his strong point is and he sticks with it. He doesn't have the athleticism to create shots off the dribble or to play inside with both bigger and more athletic players.

It's early in the season and as much as I wanted to believe the growing pains wouldn't be this painful now I'm admitting this is going to be a growing pain season anytime Adams, Naughton and JJ aren't on the floor together we're in for lengthy games and disappointing nights.

Let's also remember Grabau played with Nance and Cooke. That's the most formidable interior we've had since our last tourney run before them. I mean an NBA talent down there that they got to develop chemistry with over a long run. It sure helps to have some low post powerhouses to toss it to at PG and even more so when your not the biggest/fastest, but can still pop shots. Our bigs aren't drawing that kind of attention yet and the Pokes need to find a way to get them involved on the offense. I think it'll start to happen when they're fully healthy and gelling....well I'm hoping anyway.

Everyone needs to just look for improvement this season. I've already seen some big steps by guys on this squad so I'm pretty optimistic. Liebs and Kelly are getting thrown into overtime duty right now. I know Liebs isn't a world beater but I think he can do enough to justify is spot on the squad. He's really going to have to play with a lot of intelligence. Players like him have to out position themselves over their opponents and use space wisely. I mean I'm not expecting anything from Kelly and he's giving the team minutes during a rough stretch, that's something. Keeping these losses close while waiting for the calvary can mean something still as well.

 

[seattlecowboy]

Once Adams and Marshall are healthy this is the line up Edwards need to have in there :

Doesn't matter who starts but :

Big man rotation of
Naughton/Moemeka/Herndon/ Dalton - Use The first two at the 5 mainly and the other two at the 4 spot
Wings- James/ JMAC/ ADAMS

Let either Adams or James bring the ball up the floor at all times.

Those need to be the top 7 players.

Bring Marshall in to give spot minutes at the wing to JMAC, James or Adams.

Then bring Lieberman in for only "spot" minutes to give either James or Adams some rest.

Use that 9 man rotation with the top 7 playing most of the time.

Lieberman only gets spot minutes and no Kelley.



I think having James, JMAC and Adams all on the floor at the same time is as good as about any MWC PG and wing combo in the league. Just hasn't happened yet. You get two guys that can create with James and Adams on the floor at the same time which then gets JMAC open for his shot a lot more as well as Dalton and Herndon open and creates more space for Naughton to work down low.

Hope Edwards does this instead of what we have seen when those guys get healthy.

Just my opinion but I think that would work best.

 

[NowherePoke]

Once Adams and Marshall are healthy this is the line up Edwards need to have in there :

Doesn't matter who starts but :

Big man rotation of
Naughton/Moemeka/Herndon/ Dalton - Use The first two at the 5 mainly and the other two at the 4 spot
Wings- James/ JMAC/ ADAMS

Let either Adams or James bring the ball up the floor at all times.

Those need to be the top 7 players.

Bring Marshall in to give spot minutes at the wing to JMAC, James or Adams.

Then bring Lieberman in for only "spot" minutes to give either James or Adams some rest.

Use that 9 man rotation with the top 7 playing most of the time.

Lieberman only gets spot minutes and no Kelley.



I think having James, JMAC and Adams all on the floor at the same time is as good as about any MWC PG and wing combo in the league. Just hasn't happened yet. You get two guys that can create with James and Adams on the floor at the same time which then gets JMAC open for his shot a lot more as well as Dalton and Herndon open and creates more space for Naughton to work down low.

Hope Edwards does this instead of what we have seen when those guys get healthy.

Just my opinion but I think that would work best.

The only piece I would disagree with is that I think there is a spot for Gorski in the rotation. He, like the rest of the Pokes, didn't play well last night but he has been our best perimeter shooter and has been very solid.

I like the potential in Moemeka. I think our frontcourt will be pretty decent by next year with Naughton, Moemeka, Dalton, Herndon, and Jones all in at least their 3rd year of D1 hoops and having some experience under their belts. Will be up and down this year, but I like that group long term.

Backcourt really needs creators though. Not sure our PG for next year is on the roster right now.