The last time i heard from our Athletic Director, that makes $551,000 per year, he said Wyoming had "hidden value". Not sure what that was, but perhaps we could get a better explanation. . .Since then the fan base has not heard anything from him. He still is being paid like $48,000 per month with no communication to anybody outside of old main.Wyoming's marketing department can (and I hope do) point those things out when they are in negotiations with media partners. what comes out the other end of those negotiations is a number......When it comes to Wyoming, that number is peanuts. We can interrogate that number somewhat...maybe they are mis-evaluating us? If that is the case, then the market should correct it. Unfortunately, this low opinion of Wyoming's media value and value as a conference partner has persisted for a long time and through a few cycles of negotiations.
I don't think anybody posting here is going to be able to answer your pointed questions on this issue. Home football attendance and football program valuation sure has done very little to make us matter in any of the discussion around conference realignment....that's for sure. Whatever people are looking at, Wyoming doesn't have it or they think Wyoming doesn't have it....that's all I know
Kind of talking about a couple separate issues here...Burman is most likely something close to replacement level but that fact exists alongside other facts about how UW athletics is valued by media companies.The last time i heard from our Athletic Director, that makes $551,000 per year, he said Wyoming had "hidden value". Not sure what that was, but perhaps we could get a better explanation. . .Since then the fan base has not heard anything from him. He still is being paid like $48,000 per month with no communication to anybody outside of old main.
.Burman is most likely something close to replacement level but that fact exists alongside other facts about how UW athletics is valued by media companies.
This goes back to my question. Nobody, including me, on this board can give a clear definition of media or market. Yet, everyone takes it as fact that all media/market shortcomings are out of our control. If we can't define or identify the factors that influence media values, then how can we be so certain they are 100% out of our control? How can we be so certain that what we can control (other than winning) has little influence on media value (if winning even does)?
Before it get going, it is obvious there has to be some things out of our control. Population and student numbers are used often. I guess they likely are involved, but it still doesn't make sense since we are selling to national advertisers and the audience is largely college football fans watching whatever game is either on (mostly the audience for g5) or game they are interested in (major programs). Lack of bsu-like brand. Obvious.
Comparison to usu not as obvious. What are the media factors driving more value for usu? If all you got is population and student enrollment, I can't say for certain you are wrong because I don't know. However, I suspect it is a lot more than that, and this could be where some more "people factors" come into play.
Despite the best MWC run from 2016-2024 the football program is 75-123 (.379) in conference play since 1999 and 174-250 in conference play for MBB (.410) in the same timeframe.There are things we know....and things we don't know. In the former category, we know that UW is not valued by media and it's market is not one that anybody is excited to bid upon. We also know that nobody is interested in Wyoming as a conference member. Frustratingly, this is even in comparison to schools like USU and CSU.
In the category of things we don't know, are the facts (or causes) upstream of the fact that we are not an interesting marketing vehicle or exciting addition to a conference looking to stay relevant. How much does the UW admin hurt/help us in these negotiations? If we are being honest, I really don't think any of us have a great answer to that. What about the facts around low enrollment and our tiny market size? Also don't know, but I think we can say more about the direction of that effect even if the magnitude is tough to define.
I'm just a Yokel behind a keyboard...but from where I stand, the split that is happening with the "top" MWC programs attempting to leave behind a group that includes Wyoming is a gigantic nail in a coffin containing what is left of UW athletics. There were other slights in years past but they were similarly felt by a core group of institutions that we regarded ourselves as competitive with. The one thing that Wyoming had the most control over and had the highest chance of staving this off is something that looks like what Boise St accomplished when it comes to competitive results. Our approach to coaching retention and coaching acquisition seems to me to be the primary problem here. I think it was you who pointed out the "what if" of Urban Meyer coming to Laramie instead of Joe Glenn ... kind of opened my eyes on this. Here is another one, what if, instead of Koenning, Glenn, Christensen, we had we gone Koetter, Hawkins, Petersen? Those were gettable coaches at the time. Our consistent whiffs, specifically on football coaching hires, seem like the biggest reason we are in the position we are in. IMO...that was the path to mattering in college athletics and we missed it, big time.
Now, you might say, "well CSU is valued higher than us and they suck on the gridiron"....My response is well...tough titties. The world isn't fair. Wyoming has a different set of strengths and weaknesses. What works in Fort Collins or in Logan works in Fort Collins and Logan. It's not transferrable. Wyoming will have to break the door down by beating everybody on the field and court just like BSU did. My sense is that the state legislature, the BOT, UW president, and the Athletic director are all some version of average when it comes to the art of administrating. They are creatures of bureaucracy first and foremost. This is actually an area we have in common with most surrounding state universities and athletic departments. Unfortunately, in the absence of mattering competitively, we are left jockeying against schools like CSU and USU on a playing field where market size and population seem to matter...and we aren't winning that no matter what. You have to control what you can control. Tilting against outsider and market perception of Wyoming is a loser's battle.
Changing this needed to be the laser focus of the athletic department. I would imagine that they did desire it to change but felt that focusing on facilities was the way to do it. In fairness to them...it wasn't a crazy idea at the time. Hindsight is 20/20.Despite the best MWC run from 2016-2024 the football program is 75-123 (.379) in conference play since 1999 and 174-250 in conference play for MBB (.410) in the same timeframe.
Basketball has had 2 conference championships and a tournament championship in 26 years with 7 seasons over .500.
Football has had 0 conference championships with 1 conference championship participation with 7 seasons over .500.
Despite the facilities upgrades there simply has not been a culture of winning since joining the MWC. Wyoming is so far below .500 in both revenue sports that even if the programs were to flourish it would take years beyond my remaining lifetime to reach .500.
That lack of being a serious contender other than the 1 season out of every 7 along with barely being in the top 200 DMA doesn’t sell interest outside of the unpopulated footprint known as the Wyoming market.
Losing = irrelevance
You might be right, but I have my doubts.Our approach to coaching retention and coaching acquisition seems to me to be the primary problem here. I think it was you who pointed out the "what if" of Urban Meyer coming to Laramie instead of Joe Glenn ... kind of opened my eyes on this. Here is another one, what if, instead of Koenning, Glenn, Christensen, we had we gone Koetter, Hawkins, Petersen? Those were gettable coaches at the time. Our consistent whiffs, specifically on football coaching hires, seem like the biggest reason we are in the position we are in. IMO...that was the path to mattering in college athletics and we missed it, big time.
All great points. I think what you are describing is accurate, particularly in the case of Utah and Urban Meyer. I would point out, in the case of Boise St, I don't think a lot of people considered it to be an up-and-coming coaching landing spot in the late '90s. They were successful in making something impressive pretty much out of hiring good coaches upon good coaches.You might be right, but I have my doubts.
Some coaches are certainly better than others...there is no doubt about that. We can look no further than our current head coach Jay Sawvel to see that. But I also think that head coaches are moderately overrated when it comes to a college football program's success or lack thereof.
Good college football coaches often wait for the right opportunity before they make a move, especially to the head coach position. They look for programs that are set up for success. In the past, that was things like strong administrative support, top of the conference salary pool for assistant coaches, etc. Now it's really only how much money will I have between revenue sharing and NIL. These coaches often succeed partly because they are good at picking prime opportunities.
Other coaches jump at the first head coaching opportunity that comes their way. They see a big jump in salary (usually) and the prestige of the "head coach" title and can't resist it. They believe their inherent coaching qualities outweigh whatever forces are working against them in the program they are taking over. These coaches often fail because they take over programs that have systemic problems bigger than any coach.
I think there is a fairly good argument to be made that Wyoming football, in the modern era, is one of those programs that have so many problems that the coach almost doesn't matter. Did we really make poor coaching hires time after time or did Wyoming football kill the coaching careers of talented coaches time after time?
As you point out, it is very difficult to predict who is going to be a good head coach. How was Boise State able to do it over and over again when most programs struggle to get it right even once? This is actually one of the reason's I believe it has more to do with the football program itself than it does the head coach. Obviously there is no way to know this, but I believe pretty strongly that both Joe Glenn and Dave Christensen would have had a lot of success at Boise State. Koenning was bad enough that I'm not sure he would of had success as a head coach anywhere.All great points. I think what you are describing is accurate, particularly in the case of Utah and Urban Meyer. I would point out, in the case of Boise St, I don't think a lot of people considered it to be an up-and-coming coaching landing spot in the late '90s. They were successful in making something impressive pretty much out of hiring good coaches upon good coaches.
I want to clarify....I don't think this is a trivially easy thing to do. Even if you have great clarity and focus on it as a goal, hiring great coaches is extremely tough.
I can state confidently, people knew who UW was when Josh Allen was drafted. I doubt that many forgot.Wyoming athletics is definitely not a national brand. Outside of winning, and winning repeatedly on the big stage, I don't think this can be fixed.
I've lived all over the country. Oregon, Kentucky, Florida, Massachusetts, Texas...very few people in those areas even know that Wyoming is an FBS school, and they certainly wouldn't ever purposefully put on a Wyoming football game regardless of the channel it was being aired on. To go a little further, a lot of people out east aren't even familiar with the MWC. If they know anything at all about the MWC, it's usually that it is the conference that Boise State is in.
Boise State consistently getting into Fiesta Bowl, and winning all three times, changed their brand forever. Can Wyoming ever do something like that now in the NIL era...I'm not sure it is even possible.
