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P12 - MWC

Midwest Cowboy said:
What bothers me most is the deceit. Pac-2 looks for safety by scheduling with the MWC, agrees to a no poaching clause, and later sues to void the restriction. To me, bad faith. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some level of collusion amongst the "traitors" and the Pac-2 from the beginning. It's been hard for me not to feel that MWC got "played" by an unscrupulous Theresa Gould and desperate/angry OSU and WSU but who knows. Maybe Gloria Nevarez did all she could to entertain the Pac-2 and defend against the inevitable. To me, this isn't just about a contract dispute...how many widgets were delivered at what price and on what terms. There is arrogance, deceit, and collusion. There is also the irony of OSU and WSU being screwed by departing members...but caring less about who got screwed as remaining members of the MWC. Hypocrisy 101.

Hate is a strong word. You'll have to ask yourself why it doesn't resonate with you at higher level. But I don't wish a single good thing for programs like CSU, SDSU, BSU, USU, etc. Also, I am a little embarrassed at what the MWC has become (with Gloria Nevarez pretending "this is better!"). I cannot fathom NIU (no disrespect at all) being a MWC team (or Toledo or any other school from the Midwest). I like regional rivalries and many years ago, used to think how cool a conference with Colorado, Nebraska, BYU, Utah and the MWC teams would be (minus Hawaii due to travel). That ain't going to happen.

To answer your question, maybe the "hatred" and "vitriol" that people feel is a sense that something important to them is dying right before their eyes. All of college sports pretty much sucks. Maybe it already died for you and you just don't realize it.

In any case, screw CSU all day long.
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Wanted to respond to the rest of your comment as well...

I would have to say that the "deceit" bother's me as well...but for me it is baked in at some level. Among the mistakes made when entering in to agreements, there are two mistakes that should be avoided. One is the belief that everybody is out to screw you...and the other is that everybody has your best interests at heart. In the first example, paranoia and fear will keep you from really having great outcomes. In the second example, normal everyday people who don't care about you one way or another will constantly disappoint you when things don't work out perfectly.

I don't think that the interested parties in this whole affair are making those particular mistakes even while the commenting class (fans, twitter, podcasters) seems to make them all the time. I'm surprised by the moral outrage that folks seem to have here. I think that is because, If I imagine myself as an administrator or leader at Boise St, SDSU, or Oregon St...I would be doing a lot of the same stuff I see them doing right now. I would be prodding these agreements to find the ways in which they can be interpreted to my benefit. I assume Wyoming and the "less desirable" programs are doing the same. For me, the toughest pill to swallow has been the success of BYU relative to the fortunes at UW during my lifetime. I no longer can enjoy that rivalry. It was built on something close to equal footing that no longer exists. If that comes to pass with CSU...that will suck but it won't be because the people in charge in Fort Collins are evil and out to destroy Wyoming athletics. They are attempting to do the same thing BYU has accomplished. I don't begrudge them the attempt...I'm most upset that Wyoming has seemingly no leverage or pathway to do the same. If Wyoming had that leverage or pathway I think I'd be upset if they didn't try to leave CSU behind.
 
Nothing of significance reported today but some interesting discussion.

FWIW from Monty 5-28:

The pea12 thought that the MWC would fold as members left and was caught off guard by the MWC situating themselves to move forward.

The pea12 is also realizing that they are not going to be in the media $$ at the level they proclaimed and even if they did announce something bigger like $10 million per school, if it is a stream heavy deal (such as the current deal for OSU/WSU in 2025) they will be paying a lot to produce the games which makes for a substantially lower net revenue. It was referred to as a transactional deal where “here is the money for you to produce these games” unlike a broadcast deal where “here is the money for the right to broadcast the games.”

Key comment - The MWC is in the leverage position.

The specific claim Monty said is that “sources are saying progress is being made.” Supposedly the talks have been amenable and the traitors are being reasonable and would continue to be accepted as members of the MWC if they don’t end up exiting.

There was a comment along with the “progress is being made” that the MWC will not be in danger of folding.

It was clearly stated that the mediation agreement to not discuss is being adhered to which is why there is silence.

Overall the essence was that the pea12 is the conference with the multitude of unresolved issues and the window to resolve these issues is becoming narrower each day.

IMO, if there is anything true to the MWC is not in danger of folding along with the traitors are having to decide if leaving is worthy, it will mean the $61 million minimum is obtainable and likely to be exceeded significantly.

Monty referenced that if there are two conferences and the pea12 doesn’t get a big discount it will likely lead to both conferences battling to be relevant. Overall Monty did not make any claims to have insider info other than being told talks are progressing.

Could a merger be a possibility? Wouldn’t hold my breath. Anything is possible but something has to be decided soon.
 
This will all look so much different in the next 10 years. UNLV strongly believes their future will be the Big12.

………..and the Rebels are quietly confident that the Big 12 is a viable option — so confident, sources said, that they’ve told incoming freshman football recruits they’ll play in the Big 12 before they graduate.


Link below.

 
Itsux2beaewe said:
This will all look so much different in the next 10 years. UNLV strongly believes their future will be the Big12.

………..and the Rebels are quietly confident that the Big 12 is a viable option — so confident, sources said, that they’ve told incoming freshman football recruits they’ll play in the Big 12 before they graduate.


Link below.

Click to expand...
At least they have a vision, aspirations, and are working towards it.

The polar opposite of what you see going on at UW.
 
Itsux2beaewe said:
This will all look so much different in the next 10 years. UNLV strongly believes their future will be the Big12.

………..and the Rebels are quietly confident that the Big 12 is a viable option — so confident, sources said, that they’ve told incoming freshman football recruits they’ll play in the Big 12 before they graduate.


Link below.

Click to expand...
UW can take UNLV’s biggest share of the pie and become MWC’s golden child along with the AFA. 🤣
 
Itsux2beaewe said:
So you’re saying there is a time coming Burman will be gone and we’ll have a AD that might do something for UW?
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Sadly, I think there is a chance somewhere between slim and none that any of that comes to fruition. We will be perpetual followers that hire coaches on the cheap and refuse to put up the ante required to be in the mix to be even a mid-tier program. Football is picked dead last this year (with the staff cited as a huge reason for the placement), basketball has a high energy, local guy running a program that previous HORRIBLE hires have neutered, and our other sports, outside of women's basketball, are, at best, meh...and at worst, juco-esque. And then there is Old Main and the main campus that is in shambles with a legislature licking its chops to gut the block grant. The term "dead man walking" seems to be apropos.
 
Itsux2beaewe said:
This will all look so much different in the next 10 years. UNLV strongly believes their future will be the Big12.

………..and the Rebels are quietly confident that the Big 12 is a viable option — so confident, sources said, that they’ve told incoming freshman football recruits they’ll play in the Big 12 before they graduate.


Link below.

Click to expand...
Well that’s not going to happen. I wish someone at our school would strive for something like that though
 
5-29:

The pee2 tools calzone and wiener were spouting yesterday their confidence that the mediation process was going well and it could take until mid July before any announcement is made because that is when the stay for the litigation expires. With that they avoided saying much about the June 1 deadline to exit other than any penalties would be part of the mediation.

They seemed to be brimming with confidence that the future TV deal will be great since the MWC announced their TV for 2025 didn’t include TNT/Tru implying it meant a lack of interest in the MWC going forward.

They were giddy that maybe as the summer goes the pee2 could expand to 8-10 football members and they also continue to talk that UNLV is a possibility.

Really nothing new at all. The part about June 1 rolled into the mediation process probably has some substance to it, but if anything it should be to the MWC’s advantage at collecting a higher percentage of the current fees and the most favorable terms unless the MWC folds like a cheap tent.

As always - stay tuned and don’t be surprised at anything.
 
This is the provision that I focused on from the scheduling agreement. The big thing in contract law is that damages are not to be a penalty. Damages are to make the non-breaching party whole. I fully suspect that the MWC attorneys really fine tuned this section to preserve the damages as being a liquidated sum and it appears that all the key terms are basically there. I see the PAC having an uphill on this provision, but we are talking a northern California court and I bet the MWC team wishes they had spent a bit more time on this provision. Devil is in the details. I did not see a choice of law or what state's law might control. The included language is near text book as what is normally required, I would have personally beefed it up. BOLD added by me!



"
Section 7.02 Liquidated Damages; Not a Penalty. The Parties acknowledge and agree
that the Termination Fees are not penalties and are instead fair, reasonable and appropriate
approximations of the losses that MWC may incur as a result of MWC’s loss of any MWC Member
Institution to Pac-12 and the failure to consummate the Definitive Transaction pursuant to
Article VIII. The Termination Fees shall be MWC’s sole and exclusive remedy in respect of the
matters described in Section 7.01. Any Withdrawal Fee which becomes payable by the Pac-12
pursuant to clause (A) of Section 7.01 shall be due and payable to MWC in full in accordance with
the terms of Section 2.03 no later than 30 days following the date each such Accepting MWC
Member Institution accepts, or announces that it will accept, such offer. Any Departure Fee which
becomes payable by the departing Pac-12 Party pursuant to clause (B) of Section 7.01 shall be due
and payable to MWC in full in accordance with the terms of Section 2.03 no later than 30 days of
the earlier of the date such departing Pac-12 Party accepts, or announces that it will accept, such
offer to join a conference other than the MWC or a Power Five Conference."
 
LawPoke said:
Sadly, I think there is a chance somewhere between slim and none that any of that comes to fruition. We will be perpetual followers that hire coaches on the cheap and refuse to put up the ante required to be in the mix to be even a mid-tier program. Football is picked dead last this year (with the staff cited as a huge reason for the placement), basketball has a high energy, local guy running a program that previous HORRIBLE hires have neutered, and our other sports, outside of women's basketball, are, at best, meh...and at worst, juco-esque. And then there is Old Main and the main campus that is in shambles with a legislature licking its chops to gut the block grant. The term "dead man walking" seems to be apropos.
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It takes hard work to keep up / stay ahead, and not be perpetual followers (as we are, and have always been under Burman's leadership). The UW AD is far from hard working, we do less with less. No vision, no aspirations, no work ethic, I could go on and on and on.
 
The June 1st deadline and $5,000 has been discussed, but, as I understand if the deadline is missed it kicks in double the exit fees. Did this get extended with the mediation date that was moved to July? See verbiage below.

The first deadline is June 1, when departing schools must send formal notification plus $5,000 to the Mountain West or face doubled exit fees from an estimated $18 million to $36 million. Several sources confirmed that, as of Friday afternoon, the Mountain West had not received anything.

Note, The Friday reference was last Friday - not today.
 
McPeachy said:
It takes hard work to keep up / stay ahead, and not be perpetual followers (as we are, and have always been under Burman's leadership). The UW AD is far from hard working, we do less with less. No vision, no aspirations, no work ethic, I could go on and on and on.
Click to expand...
This particular criticism should have some nuance. I think the personalities should be removed from the discussion...People like Tom Burman are so personally disliked that it really doesn't matter what they do at this point.

UW's "follower" status is pointed to as a big part of the cause of the decline of UW athletics. This is probably, at least, somewhat true. UW has no current successes that other programs or institutions would even want to follow. This means that most of what UW does is some version of looking out the window and trying to duplicate the success of others...hence the term follower being applied.

The problem is that UW and Wyoming in general does not have the tools at it's disposal that other universities and states have. So, inevitably, the steps Wyoming takes as a follower don't really get us anywhere. Then we get calls for vision, leadership, and aspirational thinking. Great! We are all for that right? In the abstract, I guess I'll join you all in this call since that most likely looks like another form of mediocre, but I'm extremely skeptical of what success in that scenario looks like. I don't think there is a way to real success (or even mediocre success) in the current financialized college athletic environment. When looking back, it looks like this outcome was nigh inevitable and has roots that go back to an era where nobody in charge at UW today was calling any of the shots. Now Burman and the current conference leaders get criticized for not having any balls in negotiations or "rolling over" to whomever they are negotiating with....those criticisms always make me laugh. These are leaders with laughably little leverage.

The more this goes on, the more I'm sympathetic to the view that there is a cold hard reality regarding the future of Wyoming athletics that is coming (or is already here). That reality is imposing itself upon us no matter who is in charge and what decisions are being made. This observation has always angered some...and I guess it angers me as well. I just don't have the vitriol towards the individuals supposedly in charge.
 
307bball said:
This particular criticism should have some nuance. I think the personalities should be removed from the discussion...People like Tom Burman are so personally disliked that it really doesn't matter what they do at this point.

UW's "follower" status is pointed to as a big part of the cause of the decline of UW athletics. This is probably, at least, somewhat true. UW has no current successes that other programs or institutions would even want to follow. This means that most of what UW does is some version of looking out the window and trying to duplicate the success of others...hence the term follower being applied.

The problem is that UW and Wyoming in general does not have the tools at it's disposal that other universities and states have. So, inevitably, the steps Wyoming takes as a follower don't really get us anywhere. Then we get calls for vision, leadership, and aspirational thinking. Great! We are all for that right? In the abstract, I guess I'll join you all in this call since that most likely looks like another form of mediocre, but I'm extremely skeptical of what success in that scenario looks like. I don't think there is a way to real success (or even mediocre success) in the current financialized college athletic environment. When looking back, it looks like this outcome was nigh inevitable and has roots that go back to an era where nobody in charge at UW today was calling any of the shots. Now Burman and the current conference leaders get criticized for not having any balls in negotiations or "rolling over" to whomever they are negotiating with....those criticisms always make me laugh. These are leaders with laughably little leverage.

The more this goes on, the more I'm sympathetic to the view that there is a cold hard reality regarding the future of Wyoming athletics that is coming (or is already here). That reality is imposing itself upon us no matter who is in charge and what decisions are being made. This observation has always angered some...and I guess it angers me as well. I just don't have the vitriol towards the individuals supposedly in charge.
Click to expand...

Appreciate your post, and you have definitely spent some time thinking about this entire UW AD mess.

My basic point, is that it all starts with leadership. And our leader has really never gotten it done, and watched from afar (mostly) as UW has fallen behind. There is a loser mentality at UW, and it starts at the top. The whole "doing more with less" bullshit is just that.

Tom is the CEO of UW athletics the business. And the business has been in chapter 11 for all of his 19 years. I like Tom as a person, and have known him almost my whole life. But as an AD of my beloved university, where I spend a boatload of cash and even more amount of time, I am a very dissatisfied customer.
 
307bball said:
This particular criticism should have some nuance. I think the personalities should be removed from the discussion...People like Tom Burman are so personally disliked that it really doesn't matter what they do at this point.

UW's "follower" status is pointed to as a big part of the cause of the decline of UW athletics. This is probably, at least, somewhat true. UW has no current successes that other programs or institutions would even want to follow. This means that most of what UW does is some version of looking out the window and trying to duplicate the success of others...hence the term follower being applied.

The problem is that UW and Wyoming in general does not have the tools at it's disposal that other universities and states have. So, inevitably, the steps Wyoming takes as a follower don't really get us anywhere. Then we get calls for vision, leadership, and aspirational thinking. Great! We are all for that right? In the abstract, I guess I'll join you all in this call since that most likely looks like another form of mediocre, but I'm extremely skeptical of what success in that scenario looks like. I don't think there is a way to real success (or even mediocre success) in the current financialized college athletic environment. When looking back, it looks like this outcome was nigh inevitable and has roots that go back to an era where nobody in charge at UW today was calling any of the shots. Now Burman and the current conference leaders get criticized for not having any balls in negotiations or "rolling over" to whomever they are negotiating with....those criticisms always make me laugh. These are leaders with laughably little leverage.

The more this goes on, the more I'm sympathetic to the view that there is a cold hard reality regarding the future of Wyoming athletics that is coming (or is already here). That reality is imposing itself upon us no matter who is in charge and what decisions are being made. This observation has always angered some...and I guess it angers me as well. I just don't have the vitriol towards the individuals supposedly in charge.
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Many of the things you say are likely true. So, if I’m a leader, let’s say a business leader that is providing direction of a disadvantaged or disenfranchised organization, it means you work harder to develop any kind of success. It requires vision. If not, the business goes bankrupt and dies.

Can you point to anything UW athletics, Burman, has done to raise the bar on their “business” or program? Any “outside the box” ideas to become relevant? Any vision?

I really can’t.
 
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