OT: NBA Finals

[LanderPoke]

Take out the UDFA and replace them with Irving and Love and these finals are completely different. Watching the last two games reminded me of watching Wyoming games 2 years ago when all the starters were playing 35+ mins and by the end of the year our players were just dead legs and tired.

That is how the last 3 games have been for LeBron. You can love him or hate him but if he had the supporting cast of any of the players with 5 rings he would have 5 rings.

Fact. And I get so tired of hearing that Jordan would have still done it without his supporting cast. Thats a crock. The NBA did not have the sheer volume of superstars that they do now. MJ and the Bulls were truly the biggest fish in an even smaller pond. You tell me the Durants, the Roses, the Currys, the Hardens, etc. of those days. Jordan without Pippen and Kerr would have struggled against the top tier teams any and every year. You could make the case that year by year, finals by finals, Jordan had a better team around him than Lebron has had.

Lebron lost two finals with D. Wade and Chris Bosh - two other hall of famers. So no, that's a poor excuse for Lebron. MJ is head and shoulders above Lebron.

You can't compare Basketball in the 90's to Basketball today and no one said anything about him being above MJ. Did you read that sentence or just have such deep hatred for LeBron you exploded into forum rage?

Re-read the sentence - LeBron is the Michael of this generation because he is. Name one Basketball player better than LeBron.

If Lebron won five or six finals he would be the MJ of his generation. He's won two and probab;y won't win another. LeBron has had plenty of help to get him over the hump. That's why I brought up the fact that he lost two finals with two future hall of famers as teammates. And you're right, 90s bball was better. uh, I'm done "raging" now?

You don't have to have rings to be the most dominate player of the generation you have to have a team for that. There isn't a single player in the NBA that could have done what LeBron did with the Cavs this season. He is the an elite athlete a level higher than every other NBA star. Which is why he is the MJ of this generation because MJ was that elite athlete that could do it all.

Now we never saw MJ struggle he always had a good team around him but I don't think he could have done what LeBron did in the finals and MJ is my all time favorite player but LeBron did shit that no one has done for 40 years. You can't ignore what he has done and you have to give him the credit he is due.

I think Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, and Paul could have dragged that Cleveland team to the finals, too.

Rose with a full team of GOOD players couldn't beat Lebron. Paul with a team chocked full of good if not great supporting cast couldn't make it to the finals. Westbrook!?!?! Without Durant most the season, Westbrook couldn't even get his team INTO the playoffs!

There isnt a soul alive that could do, with this supporting cast, what Lebron did this year. Not even MJ. Lebron's IQ, size, speed, will are unmatched as a total package. MJ was better than Lebron in terms of will, drive, and overall skill but Lebron is so versatile its unbelievable. There isnt a better slasher in the history of the NBA. Has there ever been a better defensive guard?

LEBRON IS THE 3rd OR 4th BEST COACH IN THE NBA!!! Its insane you actually think that little of Lebron

What Lebron did was awesome, no doubt. But sub any of the players I just mentioned for Lebron with Lebron's exact situation this year and they would have made the finals too in the craptastic Eastern Conference. And I guarantee MJ would have done at least as well as Lebron did with this year's crap-sandwich Cleveland team. It's not like Lebron was close at all to defeating the Warriors and winning the title this year.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Take out the UDFA and replace them with Irving and Love and these finals are completely different. Watching the last two games reminded me of watching Wyoming games 2 years ago when all the starters were playing 35+ mins and by the end of the year our players were just dead legs and tired.

That is how the last 3 games have been for LeBron. You can love him or hate him but if he had the supporting cast of any of the players with 5 rings he would have 5 rings.

Fact. And I get so tired of hearing that Jordan would have still done it without his supporting cast. Thats a crock. The NBA did not have the sheer volume of superstars that they do now. MJ and the Bulls were truly the biggest fish in an even smaller pond. You tell me the Durants, the Roses, the Currys, the Hardens, etc. of those days. Jordan without Pippen and Kerr would have struggled against the top tier teams any and every year. You could make the case that year by year, finals by finals, Jordan had a better team around him than Lebron has had.

Lebron lost two finals with D. Wade and Chris Bosh - two other hall of famers. So no, that's a poor excuse for Lebron. MJ is head and shoulders above Lebron.

You can't compare Basketball in the 90's to Basketball today and no one said anything about him being above MJ. Did you read that sentence or just have such deep hatred for LeBron you exploded into forum rage?

Re-read the sentence - LeBron is the Michael of this generation because he is. Name one Basketball player better than LeBron.

If Lebron won five or six finals he would be the MJ of his generation. He's won two and probab;y won't win another. LeBron has had plenty of help to get him over the hump. That's why I brought up the fact that he lost two finals with two future hall of famers as teammates. And you're right, 90s bball was better. uh, I'm done "raging" now?

You don't have to have rings to be the most dominate player of the generation you have to have a team for that. There isn't a single player in the NBA that could have done what LeBron did with the Cavs this season. He is the an elite athlete a level higher than every other NBA star. Which is why he is the MJ of this generation because MJ was that elite athlete that could do it all.

Now we never saw MJ struggle he always had a good team around him but I don't think he could have done what LeBron did in the finals and MJ is my all time favorite player but LeBron did shit that no one has done for 40 years. You can't ignore what he has done and you have to give him the credit he is due.

I think Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, and Paul could have dragged that Cleveland team to the finals, too.

Rose with a full team of GOOD players couldn't beat Lebron. Paul with a team chocked full of good if not great supporting cast couldn't make it to the finals. Westbrook!?!?! Without Durant most the season, Westbrook couldn't even get his team INTO the playoffs!

There isnt a soul alive that could do, with this supporting cast, what Lebron did this year. Not even MJ. Lebron's IQ, size, speed, will are unmatched as a total package. MJ was better than Lebron in terms of will, drive, and overall skill but Lebron is so versatile its unbelievable. There isnt a better slasher in the history of the NBA. Has there ever been a better defensive guard?

LEBRON IS THE 3rd OR 4th BEST COACH IN THE NBA!!! Its insane you actually think that little of Lebron

What Lebron did was awesome, no doubt. But sub any of the players I just mentioned for Lebron with Lebron's exact situation this year and they would have made the finals too in the craptastic Eastern Conference. And I guarantee MJ would have done at least as well as Lebron did with this year's crap-sandwich Cleveland team. It's not like Lebron was close at all to defeating the Warriors and winning the title this year.

So why didn't Rose with his fully loaded team?

 

[Wyo2dal]

Take out the UDFA and replace them with Irving and Love and these finals are completely different. Watching the last two games reminded me of watching Wyoming games 2 years ago when all the starters were playing 35+ mins and by the end of the year our players were just dead legs and tired.

That is how the last 3 games have been for LeBron. You can love him or hate him but if he had the supporting cast of any of the players with 5 rings he would have 5 rings.

Fact. And I get so tired of hearing that Jordan would have still done it without his supporting cast. Thats a crock. The NBA did not have the sheer volume of superstars that they do now. MJ and the Bulls were truly the biggest fish in an even smaller pond. You tell me the Durants, the Roses, the Currys, the Hardens, etc. of those days. Jordan without Pippen and Kerr would have struggled against the top tier teams any and every year. You could make the case that year by year, finals by finals, Jordan had a better team around him than Lebron has had.

Lebron lost two finals with D. Wade and Chris Bosh - two other hall of famers. So no, that's a poor excuse for Lebron. MJ is head and shoulders above Lebron.

You can't compare Basketball in the 90's to Basketball today and no one said anything about him being above MJ. Did you read that sentence or just have such deep hatred for LeBron you exploded into forum rage?

Re-read the sentence - LeBron is the Michael of this generation because he is. Name one Basketball player better than LeBron.

If Lebron won five or six finals he would be the MJ of his generation. He's won two and probab;y won't win another. LeBron has had plenty of help to get him over the hump. That's why I brought up the fact that he lost two finals with two future hall of famers as teammates. And you're right, 90s bball was better. uh, I'm done "raging" now?

You don't have to have rings to be the most dominate player of the generation you have to have a team for that. There isn't a single player in the NBA that could have done what LeBron did with the Cavs this season. He is the an elite athlete a level higher than every other NBA star. Which is why he is the MJ of this generation because MJ was that elite athlete that could do it all.

Now we never saw MJ struggle he always had a good team around him but I don't think he could have done what LeBron did in the finals and MJ is my all time favorite player but LeBron did shit that no one has done for 40 years. You can't ignore what he has done and you have to give him the credit he is due.

I think Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, and Paul could have dragged that Cleveland team to the finals, too.

Rose with a full team of GOOD players couldn't beat Lebron. Paul with a team chocked full of good if not great supporting cast couldn't make it to the finals. Westbrook!?!?! Without Durant most the season, Westbrook couldn't even get his team INTO the playoffs!

There isnt a soul alive that could do, with this supporting cast, what Lebron did this year. Not even MJ. Lebron's IQ, size, speed, will are unmatched as a total package. MJ was better than Lebron in terms of will, drive, and overall skill but Lebron is so versatile its unbelievable. There isnt a better slasher in the history of the NBA. Has there ever been a better defensive guard?

LEBRON IS THE 3rd OR 4th BEST COACH IN THE NBA!!! Its insane you actually think that little of Lebron

What Lebron did was awesome, no doubt. But sub any of the players I just mentioned for Lebron with Lebron's exact situation this year and they would have made the finals too in the craptastic Eastern Conference. And I guarantee MJ would have done at least as well as Lebron did with this year's crap-sandwich Cleveland team. It's not like Lebron was close at all to defeating the Warriors and winning the title this year.

Not one of those guys could have done that.

 

[LanderPoke]

Take out the UDFA and replace them with Irving and Love and these finals are completely different. Watching the last two games reminded me of watching Wyoming games 2 years ago when all the starters were playing 35+ mins and by the end of the year our players were just dead legs and tired.

That is how the last 3 games have been for LeBron. You can love him or hate him but if he had the supporting cast of any of the players with 5 rings he would have 5 rings.

Fact. And I get so tired of hearing that Jordan would have still done it without his supporting cast. Thats a crock. The NBA did not have the sheer volume of superstars that they do now. MJ and the Bulls were truly the biggest fish in an even smaller pond. You tell me the Durants, the Roses, the Currys, the Hardens, etc. of those days. Jordan without Pippen and Kerr would have struggled against the top tier teams any and every year. You could make the case that year by year, finals by finals, Jordan had a better team around him than Lebron has had.

Lebron lost two finals with D. Wade and Chris Bosh - two other hall of famers. So no, that's a poor excuse for Lebron. MJ is head and shoulders above Lebron.

You can't compare Basketball in the 90's to Basketball today and no one said anything about him being above MJ. Did you read that sentence or just have such deep hatred for LeBron you exploded into forum rage?

Re-read the sentence - LeBron is the Michael of this generation because he is. Name one Basketball player better than LeBron.

If Lebron won five or six finals he would be the MJ of his generation. He's won two and probab;y won't win another. LeBron has had plenty of help to get him over the hump. That's why I brought up the fact that he lost two finals with two future hall of famers as teammates. And you're right, 90s bball was better. uh, I'm done "raging" now?

You don't have to have rings to be the most dominate player of the generation you have to have a team for that. There isn't a single player in the NBA that could have done what LeBron did with the Cavs this season. He is the an elite athlete a level higher than every other NBA star. Which is why he is the MJ of this generation because MJ was that elite athlete that could do it all.

Now we never saw MJ struggle he always had a good team around him but I don't think he could have done what LeBron did in the finals and MJ is my all time favorite player but LeBron did shit that no one has done for 40 years. You can't ignore what he has done and you have to give him the credit he is due.

I think Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, and Paul could have dragged that Cleveland team to the finals, too.

Rose with a full team of GOOD players couldn't beat Lebron. Paul with a team chocked full of good if not great supporting cast couldn't make it to the finals. Westbrook!?!?! Without Durant most the season, Westbrook couldn't even get his team INTO the playoffs!

There isnt a soul alive that could do, with this supporting cast, what Lebron did this year. Not even MJ. Lebron's IQ, size, speed, will are unmatched as a total package. MJ was better than Lebron in terms of will, drive, and overall skill but Lebron is so versatile its unbelievable. There isnt a better slasher in the history of the NBA. Has there ever been a better defensive guard?

LEBRON IS THE 3rd OR 4th BEST COACH IN THE NBA!!! Its insane you actually think that little of Lebron

What Lebron did was awesome, no doubt. But sub any of the players I just mentioned for Lebron with Lebron's exact situation this year and they would have made the finals too in the craptastic Eastern Conference. And I guarantee MJ would have done at least as well as Lebron did with this year's crap-sandwich Cleveland team. It's not like Lebron was close at all to defeating the Warriors and winning the title this year.

So why didn't Rose with his fully loaded team?

Because he was playing Lebron. It's a hypothetical situation. I think you're missing the point.

 

[LanderPoke]

Take out the UDFA and replace them with Irving and Love and these finals are completely different. Watching the last two games reminded me of watching Wyoming games 2 years ago when all the starters were playing 35+ mins and by the end of the year our players were just dead legs and tired.

That is how the last 3 games have been for LeBron. You can love him or hate him but if he had the supporting cast of any of the players with 5 rings he would have 5 rings.

Fact. And I get so tired of hearing that Jordan would have still done it without his supporting cast. Thats a crock. The NBA did not have the sheer volume of superstars that they do now. MJ and the Bulls were truly the biggest fish in an even smaller pond. You tell me the Durants, the Roses, the Currys, the Hardens, etc. of those days. Jordan without Pippen and Kerr would have struggled against the top tier teams any and every year. You could make the case that year by year, finals by finals, Jordan had a better team around him than Lebron has had.

Lebron lost two finals with D. Wade and Chris Bosh - two other hall of famers. So no, that's a poor excuse for Lebron. MJ is head and shoulders above Lebron.

You can't compare Basketball in the 90's to Basketball today and no one said anything about him being above MJ. Did you read that sentence or just have such deep hatred for LeBron you exploded into forum rage?

Re-read the sentence - LeBron is the Michael of this generation because he is. Name one Basketball player better than LeBron.

If Lebron won five or six finals he would be the MJ of his generation. He's won two and probab;y won't win another. LeBron has had plenty of help to get him over the hump. That's why I brought up the fact that he lost two finals with two future hall of famers as teammates. And you're right, 90s bball was better. uh, I'm done "raging" now?

You don't have to have rings to be the most dominate player of the generation you have to have a team for that. There isn't a single player in the NBA that could have done what LeBron did with the Cavs this season. He is the an elite athlete a level higher than every other NBA star. Which is why he is the MJ of this generation because MJ was that elite athlete that could do it all.

Now we never saw MJ struggle he always had a good team around him but I don't think he could have done what LeBron did in the finals and MJ is my all time favorite player but LeBron did shit that no one has done for 40 years. You can't ignore what he has done and you have to give him the credit he is due.

I think Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, and Paul could have dragged that Cleveland team to the finals, too.

Rose with a full team of GOOD players couldn't beat Lebron. Paul with a team chocked full of good if not great supporting cast couldn't make it to the finals. Westbrook!?!?! Without Durant most the season, Westbrook couldn't even get his team INTO the playoffs!

There isnt a soul alive that could do, with this supporting cast, what Lebron did this year. Not even MJ. Lebron's IQ, size, speed, will are unmatched as a total package. MJ was better than Lebron in terms of will, drive, and overall skill but Lebron is so versatile its unbelievable. There isnt a better slasher in the history of the NBA. Has there ever been a better defensive guard?

LEBRON IS THE 3rd OR 4th BEST COACH IN THE NBA!!! Its insane you actually think that little of Lebron

What Lebron did was awesome, no doubt. But sub any of the players I just mentioned for Lebron with Lebron's exact situation this year and they would have made the finals too in the craptastic Eastern Conference. And I guarantee MJ would have done at least as well as Lebron did with this year's crap-sandwich Cleveland team. It's not like Lebron was close at all to defeating the Warriors and winning the title this year.

Not one of those guys could have done that.

Each of those guys are 90% as good as Lebron. I think each could have done it.

 

[Wyo2dal]

Each of those guys are 90% as good as Lebron. I think each could have done it.

Are you trying to be funny? There is no way your making that comment without laughing.

 

[LanderPoke]

Each of those guys are 90% as good as Lebron. I think each could have done it.

Are you trying to be funny? There is no way your making that comment without laughing.

PER says they are 90% as good.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Take out the UDFA and replace them with Irving and Love and these finals are completely different. Watching the last two games reminded me of watching Wyoming games 2 years ago when all the starters were playing 35+ mins and by the end of the year our players were just dead legs and tired.

That is how the last 3 games have been for LeBron. You can love him or hate him but if he had the supporting cast of any of the players with 5 rings he would have 5 rings.

Fact. And I get so tired of hearing that Jordan would have still done it without his supporting cast. Thats a crock. The NBA did not have the sheer volume of superstars that they do now. MJ and the Bulls were truly the biggest fish in an even smaller pond. You tell me the Durants, the Roses, the Currys, the Hardens, etc. of those days. Jordan without Pippen and Kerr would have struggled against the top tier teams any and every year. You could make the case that year by year, finals by finals, Jordan had a better team around him than Lebron has had.

Lebron lost two finals with D. Wade and Chris Bosh - two other hall of famers. So no, that's a poor excuse for Lebron. MJ is head and shoulders above Lebron.

You can't compare Basketball in the 90's to Basketball today and no one said anything about him being above MJ. Did you read that sentence or just have such deep hatred for LeBron you exploded into forum rage?

Re-read the sentence - LeBron is the Michael of this generation because he is. Name one Basketball player better than LeBron.

If Lebron won five or six finals he would be the MJ of his generation. He's won two and probab;y won't win another. LeBron has had plenty of help to get him over the hump. That's why I brought up the fact that he lost two finals with two future hall of famers as teammates. And you're right, 90s bball was better. uh, I'm done "raging" now?

You don't have to have rings to be the most dominate player of the generation you have to have a team for that. There isn't a single player in the NBA that could have done what LeBron did with the Cavs this season. He is the an elite athlete a level higher than every other NBA star. Which is why he is the MJ of this generation because MJ was that elite athlete that could do it all.

Now we never saw MJ struggle he always had a good team around him but I don't think he could have done what LeBron did in the finals and MJ is my all time favorite player but LeBron did shit that no one has done for 40 years. You can't ignore what he has done and you have to give him the credit he is due.

I think Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, and Paul could have dragged that Cleveland team to the finals, too.

Rose with a full team of GOOD players couldn't beat Lebron. Paul with a team chocked full of good if not great supporting cast couldn't make it to the finals. Westbrook!?!?! Without Durant most the season, Westbrook couldn't even get his team INTO the playoffs!

There isnt a soul alive that could do, with this supporting cast, what Lebron did this year. Not even MJ. Lebron's IQ, size, speed, will are unmatched as a total package. MJ was better than Lebron in terms of will, drive, and overall skill but Lebron is so versatile its unbelievable. There isnt a better slasher in the history of the NBA. Has there ever been a better defensive guard?

LEBRON IS THE 3rd OR 4th BEST COACH IN THE NBA!!! Its insane you actually think that little of Lebron

What Lebron did was awesome, no doubt. But sub any of the players I just mentioned for Lebron with Lebron's exact situation this year and they would have made the finals too in the craptastic Eastern Conference. And I guarantee MJ would have done at least as well as Lebron did with this year's crap-sandwich Cleveland team. It's not like Lebron was close at all to defeating the Warriors and winning the title this year.

So why didn't Rose with his fully loaded team?

Because he was playing Lebron. It's a hypothetical situation. I think you're missing the point.

So let me get this straight...DRose on a shitty Cavalier team could have run through the shitty east but DRose on a fully manned, very good Bulls team can't get through Lebron and I'm missing the point?

 

[LanderPoke]

Take out the UDFA and replace them with Irving and Love and these finals are completely different. Watching the last two games reminded me of watching Wyoming games 2 years ago when all the starters were playing 35+ mins and by the end of the year our players were just dead legs and tired.

That is how the last 3 games have been for LeBron. You can love him or hate him but if he had the supporting cast of any of the players with 5 rings he would have 5 rings.

Fact. And I get so tired of hearing that Jordan would have still done it without his supporting cast. Thats a crock. The NBA did not have the sheer volume of superstars that they do now. MJ and the Bulls were truly the biggest fish in an even smaller pond. You tell me the Durants, the Roses, the Currys, the Hardens, etc. of those days. Jordan without Pippen and Kerr would have struggled against the top tier teams any and every year. You could make the case that year by year, finals by finals, Jordan had a better team around him than Lebron has had.

Lebron lost two finals with D. Wade and Chris Bosh - two other hall of famers. So no, that's a poor excuse for Lebron. MJ is head and shoulders above Lebron.

You can't compare Basketball in the 90's to Basketball today and no one said anything about him being above MJ. Did you read that sentence or just have such deep hatred for LeBron you exploded into forum rage?

Re-read the sentence - LeBron is the Michael of this generation because he is. Name one Basketball player better than LeBron.

If Lebron won five or six finals he would be the MJ of his generation. He's won two and probab;y won't win another. LeBron has had plenty of help to get him over the hump. That's why I brought up the fact that he lost two finals with two future hall of famers as teammates. And you're right, 90s bball was better. uh, I'm done "raging" now?

You don't have to have rings to be the most dominate player of the generation you have to have a team for that. There isn't a single player in the NBA that could have done what LeBron did with the Cavs this season. He is the an elite athlete a level higher than every other NBA star. Which is why he is the MJ of this generation because MJ was that elite athlete that could do it all.

Now we never saw MJ struggle he always had a good team around him but I don't think he could have done what LeBron did in the finals and MJ is my all time favorite player but LeBron did shit that no one has done for 40 years. You can't ignore what he has done and you have to give him the credit he is due.

I think Curry, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, and Paul could have dragged that Cleveland team to the finals, too.

Rose with a full team of GOOD players couldn't beat Lebron. Paul with a team chocked full of good if not great supporting cast couldn't make it to the finals. Westbrook!?!?! Without Durant most the season, Westbrook couldn't even get his team INTO the playoffs!

There isnt a soul alive that could do, with this supporting cast, what Lebron did this year. Not even MJ. Lebron's IQ, size, speed, will are unmatched as a total package. MJ was better than Lebron in terms of will, drive, and overall skill but Lebron is so versatile its unbelievable. There isnt a better slasher in the history of the NBA. Has there ever been a better defensive guard?

LEBRON IS THE 3rd OR 4th BEST COACH IN THE NBA!!! Its insane you actually think that little of Lebron

What Lebron did was awesome, no doubt. But sub any of the players I just mentioned for Lebron with Lebron's exact situation this year and they would have made the finals too in the craptastic Eastern Conference. And I guarantee MJ would have done at least as well as Lebron did with this year's crap-sandwich Cleveland team. It's not like Lebron was close at all to defeating the Warriors and winning the title this year.

So why didn't Rose with his fully loaded team?

Because he was playing Lebron. It's a hypothetical situation. I think you're missing the point.

So let me get this straight...DRose on a shitty Cavalier team could have run through the shitty east but DRose on a fully manned, very good Bulls team can't get through Lebron and I'm missing the point?

I didn't include D Rose. D Rose is a bum.

 

[seattlecowboy]

Just read through some of this thread and funny seeing people argue lol....

First off the NBA in the 80's and 90's was far better and had more super stars than today. Rules were different also and defense was a lot tougher because of the hand checking and you could also pretty much tackle a guy where as today there are a lot of hand fouls on the outside and you can't hand check so it is easier to get to the basket. The Eastern conference back when Jordan played was far far superior to the Eastern Conference this year. Overall the Eastern Conference sucked this year but not going to take anything away from Cleveland getting to the finals out of it because it is an accomplishment.

Jordan did need his supporting cast just as every great player needs their supporting cast in any era because one person can't do it all. Not Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem , Wilt or Lebron.

Lebron no doubt is a great player and will be one of the best of all time but he isn't the best of all time and he certainly wouldn't have won 5 rings because he had a chance to do that with his supporting cast in Miami which was a good enough supporting cast in comparison to the rest of the league at that point to do it. Lebron just isn't as good of a finisher as other guys have been. He did impress me more in this finals though than in any other finals.

This series would have been different for sure if Love and Irving would have been able to play. Cleveland would have had a great chance to win it.

Lebron is mainly powerful and tries to get to the basket with his shear size and strength and that is how he scores . He is a good athlete for sure.

Lebron while great won't ever be as good as MJ was for a few reasons. One is because shear competitiveness no one in the history of sports can compare to MJ. He would get himself pissed off at an opponent even if there was no reason to, he would make something up to just dismantle his opponent and had more of a killer instinct than anyone ever in any sport.

While Lebron has great all around numbers Jordan could get the numbers all around whenever he needed to also. There was one point in his career where Jordan had to play point guard because their team needed it and over that span Jordan recorded 7 straight triple doubles and ended up with 10 triple doubles out of 11 games. In that span of games Jordan averaged 33.6 points per game , 10.8 rebounds per game and 11.4 assists per game. In the one game he didn't get the triple double he had 40 points, 7 rebounds and 11 assists.

Also MJ is the only player in League history to get 200 steals and 100 blocks twice in a season. The only other players to do it were Hakeem one year and Pippen one year. Jordan went 6-0 in NBA finals with 6 finals MVP's. He averaged 37 ppg one year and that same year got defensive player of the year in the league. As good as moves as some of the things guys like Lebron or Kobe or Durant do I have never seen any of them make the moves MJ made and it wasn't like Mj made them just a few times. He would make them night after night and game after game. People forget just how good MJ was when he got locked in. He wouldn't let anyone beat him.

When you look at "Per" numbers which is player efficiency rating for their careers Jordan is #1 with a 27.91 rating while Lebron is 2nd at 27.79. These numbers take into account all sorts of stats that tell how efficient the player was while they were on the court. Jordan and Lebron are the only 2 players to have 4 single seasons with over 30 Per ratings. Jordan having the highest single season at 31.84. Also Jordans PER number came down a little also because of him coming back for a couple years to play for the Washington Wizards. If he would have stayed in retirement at the end of his Bulls career his PER would be over 29 which would be far above anyone else including Lebron.

MJ did have good teams but MJ was a big reason his teams were so good just like Magic Johnson and Larry Bird had good teams but they made them better. Personally as good as Lebron is and as good as athlete as he is I don't think he is the 2nd best of all time. I would put other people above him who I think are better and I would rather have on my team such as the 2 guys I just mentioned above.

I've watched basketball a long time but when I was younger I use to think there was only Magic, and Bird and MJ and Dr. J and the guys I watched and I thought the players from the 60's and 70's wouldn't match up with them but now that I am older and have watched more clips of them and I am more mature I realize I wasn't giving those guys their due. Guys like BIll Russell and Kareem in his prime and Wilt and Oscar Robertson were all awesome players and some of the best of all time and would be up in the top 10 list.

So I think what happens is when you are young growing up you only see who is playing at that time and think these guys have to be the best ever or you forget just how good players were from other era's and it just isn't true.

So while I think Lebron is a top 10 player of all time and probably top 5 maybe he could end up being 2nd best of all time people shouldn't forget just how good some of these other guys were. People are just basing things that they have seen most recently and letting emotions get to them.

I know one thing for sure , I can show any of you guys some really good Jordan clips that go on for 4 hours straight and all 4 hours worth are pretty much all different moves and different shots for 4 straight hours that Jordan made and you don't see any of the guys today being able to make those types of shots time after time. Jordan is the GOAT and no one comes close really when you look into it.

Take nothing away from Lebron though as he is great and Lebron is a classy guy or he seems to be and never says he is the greatest of all time. It is other people who try and say that and then arguments start. I think Lebron and Magic are closer in styles of play than comparing Jordan and Lebron. Magic was bigger like Lebron the difference between those two though is Magic liked dishing no looks passes and was a better assist guy and Lebron is more of a scorer. All of these guys are great though. Just my :twocents: :thumb:

 

[NowherePoke]

Jordan is simply the greatest basketball player and professional athlete in any team sport that I have seen in my time. It should not be a criticism of LeBron that he is not as good as Michael. I don't think LeBron is getting enough credit from some on here:

1. Supporting cast - LeBron did have a very solid supporting cast in Miami and not coincidentally his team made 4 finals in 4 years and won two titles. The only teams comparable over the last 45 years (post Russell-era Celtics) over a 4 year period are the MJ-era Bulls, Magic-era Lakers, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, and Bird-Celtics. However, he also carried the Cleveland Cavaliers to the finals twice with supporting casts that barely had any business even being in the playoffs. Many of the greats involved in the other teams I mentioned never had to experience that situation. Jordan did, to an extent, early in his career, but he never made the finals. Look at the Cavs roster this year, even with Irving healthy...that is not a great team.

2. If you switch Curry and LeBron, I don't see how you come to any conclusion other than that every single game would have been a monster blowout. Yes, LeBron played isolation ball in the finals, but remember how he played in Miami? If the supporting cast is there, he is the conductor that opens up the offense for everyone else. He would have been masterful with guys like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green surrounding him, much like he was with Bosh and Wade. He is much more Bird/Magic than he is Jordan, even with the ridiculous usage rate in these finals. To imply that LeBron is essentially on par with guys like Curry/Harden/Westbrook/etc. seems to me to be more of a product of a personal dislike for LeBron rather than any objective evaluation. Curry is great and deserved the MVP (and the Finals MVP moreso than Iggy IMO, but that's a separate topic), but LeBron is the best player and has been for a significant amount of time.

 

[NowherePoke]

Nice post seattle. MJ remains unparalleled IMO.

 

[seattlecowboy]

Jordan is simply the greatest basketball player and professional athlete in any team sport that I have seen in my time. It should not be a criticism of LeBron that he is not as good as Michael. I don't think LeBron is getting enough credit from some on here:

1. Supporting cast - LeBron did have a very solid supporting cast in Miami and not coincidentally his team made 4 finals in 4 years and won two titles. The only teams comparable over the last 45 years (post Russell-era Celtics) over a 4 year period are the MJ-era Bulls, Magic-era Lakers, Shaq/Kobe Lakers, and Bird-Celtics. However, he also carried the Cleveland Cavaliers to the finals twice with supporting casts that barely had any business even being in the playoffs. Many of the greats involved in the other teams I mentioned never had to experience that situation. Jordan did, to an extent, early in his career, but he never made the finals. Look at the Cavs roster this year, even with Irving healthy...that is not a great team.

2. If you switch Curry and LeBron, I don't see how you come to any conclusion other than that every single game would have been a monster blowout. Yes, LeBron played isolation ball in the finals, but remember how he played in Miami? If the supporting cast is there, he is the conductor that opens up the offense for everyone else. He would have been masterful with guys like Klay Thompson and Draymond Green surrounding him, much like he was with Bosh and Wade. He is much more Bird/Magic than he is Jordan, even with the ridiculous usage rate in these finals. To imply that LeBron is essentially on par with guys like Curry/Harden/Westbrook/etc. seems to me to be more of a product of a personal dislike for LeBron rather than any objective evaluation. Curry is great and deserved the MVP (and the Finals MVP moreso than Iggy IMO, but that's a separate topic), but LeBron is the best player and has been for a significant amount of time.

I was posting my long essay at the same time you did lol. I agree with everything you say. While I think JOrdan is the greatest team sport player I have ever seen a lot of people don't give Lebron his due. He is the best in the world right now and like I said he impressed me more in this finals than any of the others that he won. Good post.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Just read through some of this thread and funny seeing people argue lol....

First off the NBA in the 80's and 90's was far better and had more super stars than today. Rules were different also and defense was a lot tougher because of the hand checking and you could also pretty much tackle a guy where as today there are a lot of hand fouls on the outside and you can't hand check so it is easier to get to the basket. The Eastern conference back when Jordan played was far far superior to the Eastern Conference this year. Overall the Eastern Conference sucked this year but not going to take anything away from Cleveland getting to the finals out of it because it is an accomplishment.

In my opinion, this is why the "skill" gap was as close as it was. If MJ played with todays rules he would have been SO much better and the gap between him and the rest of the world would be far wider.

That being said, I think the gap between MJ and LBJ is not wide at all. I think MJ is the most competitive athlete to ever walk this earth. His drive and will to win was unparalleled. But he was not the freak athlete that Lebron is. Lebrons speed, tenacity, and finishing ability is equally unparalleled. Lebrons defense is as on the same level, MJ is a better spot shooter, and both can create on a different level. I also think Lebron is better at making his team better. I felt at times MJ would shoulder it all and wouldnt let his teammates play. Not always, but sometimes. I know we will never get our answer of who's best but theres no way they aren't in the same, elite boat.

 

[stymeman]

always a wonderful thing when "the best player in the world" gets knocked out, i'm happy my summer can continue...lol

 

[Wyokie]

You people keep forgetting one thing......Cleveland is the sports version of the Bermuda Triangle....it's where careers go to die.

Besides the last time Cleveland had a sports championship of ANY kind....LBJ was President (1964).