OOC schedule Woes

[NowherePoke]

Man I hate the RPI. Case in point, Wyoming has played more top 150 RPI teams than Boise and has a better record against those team than Boise does against the top 150 RPI teams they played. Yet, their RPI is in the 40's? TOO MUCH FUCKING CREDIT IS GIVEN TO TEAMS WITH SUB 200 RPI's AND TOO MUCH FUCKING CREDIT IS GIVEN TO SOS.

Don't be surprised if both are left home. The RPI has it's weaknesses, but the committee isn't dumb. They will look at Boise's body of work and see very few quality wins.

If Wyoming and BSU both finish with the same conference record, say 13-5, the only thing the RPI would change is who gets a home game in the NIT (BSU).

CSU is in a much better spot. They don't have the quality wins either, but they don't have the bad losses that WYO and BSU do.

 

[NowherePoke]

Gotta stop scheduling crappy east coast teams.. schedule teams like Weber State, Montana (why the F would we schedule MT State twice??), Pacific.. basically, find the best Big Sky, WCC, and Big West teams and play them.. stay away from the crap MEAC schools.

Well, we need games that don't require a return. We don't have to return the games against Stetson, FAMU, and Southern. I would guess that teams like Weber, Montana, and Pacific are not interested in that arrangement with a MWC team.

Now, I wouldn't mind seeing Montana replace Montana St. on the schedule, but our options are limited for the home buy games that don't require a return.

The solution is not to stop schedule MEAC, A-Sun, and SWAC teams, it is to schedule better teams from those leagues. More Southerns, less FAMU's.

We also need to avoid home and home arrangements with Big Sky schools not named Montana (I realize EWU and Sac State are decent this year, but in general only Montana and Weber are reliable Top 200 RPI programs and there is no reason to go to the State of Utah any more than is absolutely necessary, so only Montana). Instead of Montana State, we should be playing MVC schools (Illinois State, Evansville, etc.) or WCC schools (Portland, USF, etc.) in home and home arrangements.

I think we really need to play some neutral court tourneys as well.

 

[NowherePoke]

I would love to see the mw compete as a conference in a challenge (like SEC vs ACC). whether it be the wcc, PAC 12, etc.

MWC has been in discussions with the MVC to restart that challenge. I think it would be a positive.

Link: http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcspo...in-west-close-to-restarting-challenge-series/

 

[NowherePoke]

There is a reason we play teams like Montana State twice in a season. Coach Shyatt likes series like that because 1) It prepares the team for the home and home slate that they are going to play in the conference season. 2) and he is also hoping to use those as developmental games and get younger players live game action before conference season rolls around. While they may not be great for an RPI perspective, they're very good team building games. Also, don't expect to get any good quality teams to come to Laramie. Colorado doesn't want to come here anymore so any team bigger than them coming to Laramie in the near future might as well be a big dream.

But we had a schedule full of "developmental games".. like Denver, Western St., FAMU, etc. Adding one of the Big Sky's worst teams twice doesn't help us get into the dance. But I see your point.

Last year we played South Dakota twice in the OOC schedule. The year before that it was UC Santa Barbara. And the year before that it was Utah Valley. This is something Coach Shyatt has done consistently since he has been back and isn't very likely to change. You're only going to get smaller schools to commit to doing something like this so the schedule will have to be altered in other ways to increase the SOS.

We already know why he does it but he needs to schedule teams more like UC Santa Barbara and less of Montana St. Schedule any WCC or BIG West team over Big Sky teams.

There are plenty of teams from those conferences that will play us and we won't have to schedule Stetson , Florida A@M and Montana St's of the world.

Having Denver on the schedule is fine. Should schedule more teams from the Summit as well such as North Dakota St. , South Dakota St. ,etc... Way better then Stetson or Florida A@M. That alone would do wonders for the OOC schedule.

The developmental games were fine for the first couple of years but we are past that now and need to step it up a bit and even go on the road and play big boys with no return games.

I have posted it before, but here is generally what I would like to see from our schedule (assuming 13 games):

Home "Buy" Games:

1 - D2 opponent (RMAC school)
2 - D-1 opponents (likely SWAC, MEAC) - focus on teams expected to be in the top half of their league.


Neutral Court or Home Exempt Tourney:

3 - Mid-level D1 opponents - get into the best event we can. That will most likely be a second tier like what CSU played in, but that is still an upgrade over what we are currently doing. For rebuilding years, like next year, host the tournament in Laramie similar to what we did in Shyatt's first year. The opponents will be weak but that is the year for it.

2 for 1's:

3 - Have a rotating series of 2 for 1 arrangements with the best programs that will schedule us. Resulting in 2 road games and one home game each year. I realize this is easier said than done. Alternatively have two of the best home and homes we can schedule (which might be A-10 or WCC) with one on the road and the other at home each year and have the third game be a straight money road game like the one at Ohio State.

Home and Home Series:

4 total - These would be ongoing H&H series. We currently have DU and UNC in this format and I would like to see us turn NMSU into a long term relationship replacing CU in this rotation.
DU
UNC
NMSU
MVC Challenge (if it resumes as rumored)


This scenario would provide 6 home, 4 road, and 3 neutral in the average year (the DU/UNC/NMSU games are all aligned on the same year right now in terms of location so it might be 5/5/3 and then 7/3/3 in that scenario, but this is just for discussion).

We are never going to have a powerhouse schedule, but I believe we can put together a schedule very similar to what CSU played this year and do so on a consistent basis.

BSU's schedule turned out better for the computers but I wouldn't want us to play that schedule. Look at their home OOC games. They pretty much gave their season ticket holders the middle finger with that slate (2 D2, Abilene Christian, SUU, and Montana).

 

[NowherePoke]

One final note on this year's schedule, I took a quick look at where the teams on our OOC schedule were picked in their respective conference preseason polls and compared it to where they actually sit.



Team (Current/Predicted):

FAMU (13th/13th out of 13)
Stetson (T-7th/T-6th out of 8)
MSU (T-11th/11th out of 12)
UNC (5th/6th out of 12)
DU (7th/2nd out of 9)
SMU (1st/2nd out of 11)
CAL (7th/7th out of 12)
CU (9th/3rd out of 12)
Southern (T-2nd/2nd out of 10)
NMSU (1st/1st out of 8)


Amazingly, 8 of our 10 OOC opponents are performing almost exactly as predicted in the preseason. Unfortunately, the only two outliers are both in the negative direction and located in the state of CO (DU and CU). I blame legalization.

Still, it's hard to argue we were incredibly unlucky considering we only had two of our 10 opponents underperform their expectations. A little bit unlucky, but this was a weak schedule on paper and it got weaker. The CU performance is incredibly damaging because it was supposed to be a legit Top 25 type team at home. IOW, a notable win on the resume. I don't think DU performing up to expectations would have changed a thing for us. A few games improvement in the SOS but we would be talking about a 74 RPI instead of 79 for example and still very few quality wins. It's basically the CU collapse that hurts the most.

 

[calpoke25]

There is a reason we play teams like Montana State twice in a season. Coach Shyatt likes series like that because 1) It prepares the team for the home and home slate that they are going to play in the conference season. 2) and he is also hoping to use those as developmental games and get younger players live game action before conference season rolls around. While they may not be great for an RPI perspective, they're very good team building games. Also, don't expect to get any good quality teams to come to Laramie. Colorado doesn't want to come here anymore so any team bigger than them coming to Laramie in the near future might as well be a big dream.

I know Shyatt's likes the home and home as a way to prepare for conference play but we have to find someone better to do that with or not do it at all. To take the SOS punch of playing MSU not once but twice is killer. This was not a developmental game for younger players. Larry Nance played 38 minutes, Adams played 39, hank with 33, Grabau with 36, Cooke with 28, and this was the game in Laramie. I haven't looked at the road game. Shyatt is and always has been very starter reliant, this has been clear from the beginning of the year. It could be argued that's one of the reasons we take losses to our top players extremely hard.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Quit playing teams in Colorado. The only team worth a shit from Colorado for OOC play refuses to play us now.
Denver is a good regional opponent...whatever. No team has ever made the tourney because of their win over Denver.

The Pokes need to play in a legit tourney, and go on a hard road trip every year until some big name teams will come to Laramie.

Go to the PNW, or the Kansas schools.

Don't be afraid to go play the big boys.

 

[MrTitleist]

Gotta stop scheduling crappy east coast teams.. schedule teams like Weber State, Montana (why the F would we schedule MT State twice??), Pacific.. basically, find the best Big Sky, WCC, and Big West teams and play them.. stay away from the crap MEAC schools.

Well, we need games that don't require a return. We don't have to return the games against Stetson, FAMU, and Southern. I would guess that teams like Weber, Montana, and Pacific are not interested in that arrangement with a MWC team.

Now, I wouldn't mind seeing Montana replace Montana St. on the schedule, but our options are limited for the home buy games that don't require a return.

The solution is not to stop schedule MEAC, A-Sun, and SWAC teams, it is to schedule better teams from those leagues. More Southerns, less FAMU's.

We also need to avoid home and home arrangements with Big Sky schools not named Montana (I realize EWU and Sac State are decent this year, but in general only Montana and Weber are reliable Top 200 RPI programs and there is no reason to go to the State of Utah any more than is absolutely necessary, so only Montana). Instead of Montana State, we should be playing MVC schools (Illinois State, Evansville, etc.) or WCC schools (Portland, USF, etc.) in home and home arrangements.

I think we really need to play some neutral court tourneys as well.

Montana and CSU have done a home and home recently.. not sure about Boise, Montana was there this year, dunno if there's a return game or not. Montana also had Davidson and NDSU at home this year. Weber typically plays all of the Utah schools, so I'm not sure they'd be opposed to playing MWC schools. Given that, there's no reason these teams couldn't, and wouldn't, come to Laramie.

 

[stymeman]

we did try to schedule up it's just too bad, NMSU and Denver and Colo fell flat this year! NO ONE wants to come to Laramie and that's our big issue

 

[calpoke25]

we did try to schedule up it's just too bad, NMSU and Denver and Colo fell flat this year! NO ONE wants to come to Laramie and that's our big issue

As Nowherepoke pointed out very nicely if you read, we didn't really try to schedule up at all. All the teams are performing pretty much as expected, which was crappy. NMSU isn't what is hurting us. The schedule was weak before the season started.

 

[TSpoke]

we did try to schedule up it's just too bad, NMSU and Denver and Colo fell flat this year! NO ONE wants to come to Laramie and that's our big issue

As Nowherepoke pointed out very nicely if you read, we didn't really try to schedule up at all. All the teams are performing pretty much as expected, which was crappy. NMSU isn't what is hurting us. The schedule was weak before the season started.

Except the schedule was made before the season projections came out. I think on a couple of the really bad teams there was some things that happened. I know at least FAMU kicked players off the team in the fall probably after we scheduled them that turned them from a cupcake to one of the worst teams in basketball.

My point is that its not like they make the schedule right before the season starts with perfect information. It takes a long time to build the schedule and we don't know what went into it. People complaining saying we should be in a neutral court tourny-I beleive you have to be invited and I really doubt we turned down an invitation.

As has been said many times all season this schedule looked better at the top it was just the cupcakes were VERY bad. Which sucks because I don't think there is much difference between a 200ish RPI and 350ish RPI team on the court but it make just as much differnce to the RPI as 1 to 150ish. I would love to see an adjusted RPI with all the 200+ or maybe 250+ teams normalized(maybe if I had more time I could figure it out how to do it on my own) so you wouldn't be penalized for playing the 325th ranked team over vs a 275th ranked team when in reality they are both terrible.

 

[Arthur Fonzerelli]

We should schedule! Teams will come! GAmes will Be PLayed you heard it hear first. The Wyoming state fair is a few months away buckle down and get upf or the thrill rides zipper super lops and WAHOO GUYS WAHOO!!!

 

[calpoke25]

we did try to schedule up it's just too bad, NMSU and Denver and Colo fell flat this year! NO ONE wants to come to Laramie and that's our big issue

As Nowherepoke pointed out very nicely if you read, we didn't really try to schedule up at all. All the teams are performing pretty much as expected, which was crappy. NMSU isn't what is hurting us. The schedule was weak before the season started.

Except the schedule was made before the season projections came out. I think on a couple of the really bad teams there was some things that happened. I know at least FAMU kicked players off the team in the fall probably after we scheduled them that turned them from a cupcake to one of the worst teams in basketball.

My point is that its not like they make the schedule right before the season starts with perfect information. It takes a long time to build the schedule and we don't know what went into it. People complaining saying we should be in a neutral court tourny-I beleive you have to be invited and I really doubt we turned down an invitation.

As has been said many times all season this schedule looked better at the top it was just the cupcakes were VERY bad. Which sucks because I don't think there is much difference between a 200ish RPI and 350ish RPI team on the court but it make just as much differnce to the RPI as 1 to 150ish. I would love to see an adjusted RPI with all the 200+ or maybe 250+ teams normalized(maybe if I had more time I could figure it out how to do it on my own) so you wouldn't be penalized for playing the 325th ranked team over vs a 275th ranked team when in reality they are both terrible.

Basketball is not like football where football schedules are set years in advance. Aside from arrangements like the arrangement we had with CU basketball schedules are much more set on a year to year basis. The schedule was announced on July 31. Yes this is before the preseason media polls are out, but anyone could have told you how bad some of these teams were. In fact I think Nowherepoke broke the schedule down on here right after it was announced and showed it to be pretty crappy at that time too.

I don't think you have to be "invited" to a neutral court tournament as much as you have to "put yourself out there for it." I'm sure the exact dealings are unknown but we've never heard much from the AD about actually trying to get into one of these things, which I think you have to do. I have a hard time believing a tournament would turn down Wyoming as we've been a solid RPI top 100 team the last few years.

 

[calpoke25]

I should rephrase a little. The schedule isn't probably as crappy as it's rating is turning out to be, but it's by no means the schedule of a team aspiring for an at large, which was the goal this year. There was simply no margin for error on the schedule.

 

[stymeman]

agreed and I hear that, maybe instead of so many home games in the beginning let's go on the road to a Gonzaga or Utah or some good team and see how that helps in the long run. again we all know lots of teams won't come to Laramie at all, which is too bad, if it was sooo bad who do you recommend we schedule and play then?

 

[WYCowboy]

we did try to schedule up it's just too bad, NMSU and Denver and Colo fell flat this year! NO ONE wants to come to Laramie and that's our big issue

As Nowherepoke pointed out very nicely if you read, we didn't really try to schedule up at all. All the teams are performing pretty much as expected, which was crappy. NMSU isn't what is hurting us. The schedule was weak before the season started.

Did Shyatt (or whoever schedules) even look at the preseason rankings? I doubt they were even out when our schedule was set.

 

[calpoke25]

we did try to schedule up it's just too bad, NMSU and Denver and Colo fell flat this year! NO ONE wants to come to Laramie and that's our big issue

As Nowherepoke pointed out very nicely if you read, we didn't really try to schedule up at all. All the teams are performing pretty much as expected, which was crappy. NMSU isn't what is hurting us. The schedule was weak before the season started.

Did Shyatt (or whoever schedules) even look at the preseason rankings? I doubt they were even out when our schedule was set.

As I said several posts up, yes the media polls weren't out yet when the schedule was announced, but anyone with some knowledge of college basketball could have told you that the schedule didn't really match the teams goals.

 

[stymeman]

don't know but the schedule is and always will be what it'll be. We've really never been able to schedule good in non conf, but those teams would be willing to play us at their place anytime, getting one back in Laramie we all know that won't happen, we should look at renting Pepsi Center for the big schools for home and home that way the Denver Alumni can help fill the place. it's worth a shot

 

[WYCowboy]

we did try to schedule up it's just too bad, NMSU and Denver and Colo fell flat this year! NO ONE wants to come to Laramie and that's our big issue

As Nowherepoke pointed out very nicely if you read, we didn't really try to schedule up at all. All the teams are performing pretty much as expected, which was crappy. NMSU isn't what is hurting us. The schedule was weak before the season started.

Did Shyatt (or whoever schedules) even look at the preseason rankings? I doubt they were even out when our schedule was set.

As I said several posts up, yes the media polls weren't out yet when the schedule was announced, but anyone with some knowledge of college basketball could have told you that the schedule didn't really match the teams goals.

There was also the uncertainty of Larry Nance being able to play at all this season when our schedule was being set. Hindsight is much easier than foresight.

 

[POKE FAN]

Here is a refresher of comments made by Shyatt concerning the 2014-15 schedule:

Comments from Shyatt:

"When we returned three years ago we stated that as our program improved, so to would our schedule," Shyatt said. "What we've tried to do is prepare a nonconference schedule of home and road games against some high-level programs that will help prepare us for the Mountain West. That includes traveling to Cal and SMU and hosting Colorado, New Mexico State and Denver. I especially appreciate [SMU coach] Larry Brown and [former Cal coach] Mike Montgomery giving us an opportunity to play a return game in Laramie, which is important for our loyal fans."

"When looking at our conference schedule, we're pleased that this year we are scheduled twice to play some of the top finishers in the league over the last few seasons," Shyatt said. "That can only help bolster our RPI as we are considered for postseason play."

MW Spotlight - Larry Shyatt (MountainWestConf)

Wyoming Men's Basketball Coach talks about the return of Larry Nance Jr., Non-Conference Scheduling and the first-class facilities in Laramie.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRWF4KULPV8&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]