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OC.....

OrediggerPoke said:
Has to be something in addition to the release this morning about drinking with assistant coaches on campus and drinking a glass of bourbon after games. But instead of going quietly, the reason isn't going to help Ohio too much in a potential battle over the buyout and is probably going to play out in the media. If all coaches who had a glass of bourbon following a game were fired, there certainly would be a lot less coaches.
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Surely they need to land someone before the official portal opening, right?
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
I'd be curious to hear all the advantages Albuquerque has and how they suddenly became significant advantages. Id also be curious to hear exactly how much more we need to spend to overcome these significant disadvantages we have.
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What UNM has done well (for this year) is great....but it has little bearing on Wyoming's decline in college athletics over the last 30 years. To the extent that UNM has some sort of advantage .... It would probably be only in relation to Wyoming and it's the same one that almost every college we care to compete against has....They are pretty much all situated geographically in within a metro area that has about the same population of our entire state! As Joseph Stalin said "Quantity has a quality of its own". (May not have originated with him). I will say we are likely just a Craig Bohl level of coach away from being as good as UNM in football....that is not unimaginable.

Look...I am not some sort of econ expert...everything I think about this stuff is really just consuming what other people have said. Some of the stuff the experts say doesn't make much sense...but some of it rings true. My "expertise" is very much my own experience trying to attract and retain talent within the state of Wyoming in a specific industry. I, and people like me, are banging our heads on the wall when trying to get good people to staff positions in Wyoming. Wyoming is not a high cost of living state but we have to pay equal or more than the position would command in Denver just to get people interested. And then, when we do hit on a candidate, and make a successful hire....it is crushing when after 2 to 3 years, they leave us because they just eventually didn't like the isolation or the wind or whatever...even if they like the job. I am close to some people on the academic side at UW and you hear versions of this there as well.

Your second question about the amount you have to spend to overcome these types of challenges is one I'm thouroughly unqualified to answer. I'm confident I now the direction of these effects but the magnitude is not something I pretend to know.
 
307bball said:
What UNM has done well (for this year) is great....but it has little bearing on Wyoming's decline in college athletics over the last 30 years. To the extent that UNM has some sort of advantage .... It would probably be only in relation to Wyoming and it's the same one that almost every college we care to compete against has....They are pretty much all situated geographically in within a metro area that has about the same population of our entire state! As Joseph Stalin said "Quantity has a quality of its own". (May not have originated with him). I will say we are likely just a Craig Bohl level of coach away from being as good as UNM in football....that is not unimaginable.

Look...I am not some sort of econ expert...everything I think about this stuff is really just consuming what other people have said. Some of the stuff the experts say doesn't make much sense...but some of it rings true. My "expertise" is very much my own experience trying to attract and retain talent within the state of Wyoming in a specific industry. I, and people like me, are banging our heads on the wall when trying to get good people to staff positions in Wyoming. Wyoming is not a high cost of living state but we have to pay equal or more than the position would command in Denver just to get people interested. And then, when we do hit on a candidate, and make a successful hire....it is crushing when after 2 to 3 years, they leave us because they just eventually didn't like the isolation or the wind or whatever...even if they like the job. I am close to some people on the academic side at UW and you hear versions of this there as well.

Your second question about the amount you have to spend to overcome these types of challenges is one I'm thouroughly unqualified to answer. I'm confident I now the direction of these effects but the magnitude is not something I pretend to know.
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What are you trying to measure WYO against? Anything comparing the g6 vs p4 label is irrelevant. Watch osu and wsu demonstrate that. If you're trying to compare to p4 teams, then we should stop here. The power and non-power label was devastating but is reality. All external factors are irrelevant; that label is the most important distinction between the 2 classes.

If we focus on g6, what specifically are you measuring WYO against in which we have some major disadvantage other than people? What level within the g6 is unattainable due to external factors and without substantial more investment? Top 1/2? Top 1/3? Top 1/16?

Your analogy to other jobs isn't quite accurate. The number of g6 athletic jobs is pretty small and WYO certainly is not the worst of those.
 
I can't remember where the wish list was posted but Kevin Decker is off the board. Leaving ODU for Memphis.

Tim Cramsey, former Memphis OC, made $475K and is not too far ahead of what Jay Johnson was making as OC. You could probably pull good OCs from the Sun Belt as well
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
What are you trying to measure WYO against? Anything comparing the g6 vs p4 label is irrelevant. Watch osu and wsu demonstrate that. If you're trying to compare to p4 teams, then we should stop here. The power and non-power label was devastating but is reality. All external factors are irrelevant; that label is the most important distinction between the 2 classes.

If we focus on g6, what specifically are you measuring WYO against in which we have some major disadvantage other than people? What level within the g6 is unattainable due to external factors and without substantial more investment? Top 1/2? Top 1/3? Top 1/16?

Your analogy to other jobs isn't quite accurate. The number of g6 athletic jobs is pretty small and WYO certainly is not the worst of those.
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Wyoming state comps are hard to come by...it's mostly Alaska, N and S dakota and Montana. Of those states, Wyoming has a collegiate athletic program that is historically more comparable to universities from sates with much larger popluation bases. The designation of college athletics as "amateur" allowed Wyoming to compete well (mostly) in the past but it was alway sort of a nagging thing that our uniqueness might come with a downside that people only daired aknowledge in hushed tones. Now that the the money has exploded and the highest level people in almost every industry can move where-ever they want...it's getting really hard to act like that stuff isn't a factor for places that might have thier charms but are not broadly appreciated.

Specific to the achievements of the football program....ever since the Joe Glen days, if you take the teams away that have left or are now leaving, Wyoming is already very competetive in the top of that group. Look at the group of teams we are going up against next year...Air Force, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, Northern Illinois, San Jose State, UNLV, and UTEP. Any of them dominating Wyoming over that span of time? Not really...and nobody really enjoyed that era did they? I certainly didn't. This level of the "top of the g6" or whatever you want to call it is crap. It's FCS-lite at best. I guess ultimately if your goal is to compete with the dregs...we have the the Athletic department to do it .... this is obvious because that is the level we have already achieved. We'll have to fire our football coach but that is at least doable. I am missing a time when Wyoming mattered in the larger field of college athletics and that is why, despite acknowledging that TB and his ilk are terrible, I know that forces larger than Wyoming can control have ultimately taken that away.

Does that make sense? I'm not saying we can't beat UNM or UNLV or AFA or NIU...we can and have. We used to be way better than that though...or at least we had a taste of it from time to time. That is just completely gone and it's not really TB's fault....maybe that is why you don't like how I frame this stuff.
 
Vapoke said:
I can't remember where the wish list was posted but Kevin Decker is off the board. Leaving ODU for Memphis.

Tim Cramsey, former Memphis OC, made $475K and is not too far ahead of what Jay Johnson was making as OC. You could probably pull good OCs from the Sun Belt as well
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Former Montana State OC as well... he was really good there.
 
307bball said:
Wyoming state comps are hard to come by...it's mostly Alaska, N and S dakota and Montana. Of those states, Wyoming has a collegiate athletic program that is historically more comparable to universities from sates with much larger popluation bases. The designation of college athletics as "amateur" allowed Wyoming to compete well (mostly) in the past but it was alway sort of a nagging thing that our uniqueness might come with a downside that people only daired aknowledge in hushed tones. Now that the the money has exploded and the highest level people in almost every industry can move where-ever they want...it's getting really hard to act like that stuff isn't a factor for places that might have thier charms but are not broadly appreciated.

Specific to the achievements of the football program....ever since the Joe Glen days, if you take the teams away that have left or are now leaving, Wyoming is already very competetive in the top of that group. Look at the group of teams we are going up against next year...Air Force, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, Northern Illinois, San Jose State, UNLV, and UTEP. Any of them dominating Wyoming over that span of time? Not really...and nobody really enjoyed that era did they? I certainly didn't. This level of the "top of the g6" or whatever you want to call it is crap. It's FCS-lite at best. I guess ultimately if your goal is to compete with the dregs...we have the the Athletic department to do it .... this is obvious because that is the level we have already achieved. We'll have to fire our football coach but that is at least doable. I am missing a time when Wyoming mattered in the larger field of college athletics and that is why, despite acknowledging that TB and his ilk are terrible, I know that forces larger than Wyoming can control have ultimately taken that away.

Does that make sense? I'm not saying we can't beat UNM or UNLV or AFA or NIU...we can and have. We used to be way better than that though...or at least we had a taste of it from time to time. That is just completely gone and it's not really TB's fault....maybe that is why you don't like how I frame this stuff.
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I don't think anyone blames TB for the formation of the BCS, the power label, the g5 label, and ultimately the playoff that will very likely, to no fault of TB, be kicking the g6 to the curb.

The issue is WYO hasn't been decent when looking only within the g6 ranks. That's on people and not a bunch of external factors. Not competing with anyone in the p4? Yeah, there's a ton of factors relating to those labels and none of them are TB's or anyone's fault.
 
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ragtimejoe1 said:
I don't think anyone blames TB for the formation of the BCS, the power label, the g5 label, and ultimately the playoff that will very likely, to no fault of TB, be kicking the g6 to the curb.

The issue is WYO hasn't been decent when looking only within the g6 ranks. That's on people and not a bunch of external factors. Not competing with anyone in the p4? Yeah, there's a ton of factors relating to those labels and none of them are TB's or anyone's fault.
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I guess I'd have to understand what you mean by "decent". The last 20 years looks like a "decent" G6 football program. I really think this comes down to what we as cowboy fans want out of our program. When I'm talking about external factors that are difficult to overcome, I'm referring to the seismic shifts in the way things have been done in college athletics over the last 40 or so years. I think you are saying something different. My guess is you are talking about why we can't have a year like UNM just did..... If that's the case then yeah.... We are a coach away from that level of success. I don't get excited about that level. I'm beginning to realize we aren't talking about the same things.
 
307bball said:
I guess I'd have to understand what you mean by "decent". The last 20 years looks like a "decent" G6 football program. I really think this comes down to what we as cowboy fans want out of our program. When I'm talking about external factors that are difficult to overcome, I'm referring to the seismic shifts in the way things have been done in college athletics over the last 40 or so years. I think you are saying something different. My guess is you are talking about why we can't have a year like UNM just did..... If that's the case then yeah.... We are a coach away from that level of success. I don't get excited about that level. I'm beginning to realize we aren't talking about the same things.
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Overall, as an athletic program, we are probably bottom 1/3 in g6. No conference championships. Football has ranged from cellar dweller to good. I'll bet bad years match the decent years but no championships. I think we first worry about being the top of where we are at and so far we are failing at that which is a people problem.

Playing with the p4 will be on full display this year in the playoff. bsu and WA was a taste.

Yeah, I think we've been discussing 2 different things.
 
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