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Next year's starting 5

Bryoming

Bryoming

Well-known member
With Williams leaving and losing out on Glaze, we're going to be looking at a very guard heavy lineup. Here's how I see it shaking out:

PG - Trey Washington (So)
SG - Josh Adams (Sr)
SF - Jason McManamen (Jr)
PF - Justin James (Fr)
C - Alan Herndon (So)

This is really going to throw some of our freshman bigs into the fire. Honestly at this point I don't see any scholarship players redshirting this season. We just can't afford to sacrifice the depth. That leaves us with the following on the bench:

G - Aka Gorski (So), Lieberman(So), Marshall(So), Conway (Fr), Kelley (Fr), Averbuck (Fr)
F - Barnes(So), Moemeka(Fr), Naughton (Fr)

Kelley and Averbuck will almost definitely redshirt. I don't see any situation that will cause any of the scholarship guards to shirt. I would be absolutely shocked if we don't see Conway on the floor this season, and Lieberman looked good last season.
 
To start the season:

PG - Lieberman
SG - Josh Adams
SF - Gorski
PF - Herndon
C - Barnes

To end the season:

who knows?

I think McM, Washington, Conway, James will see significant time and one of the two Fresh bigs will play and the other will redshirt.

I'm really, really nervous about how fragile Herndon has been. Hope we don't get killed down low.

edit: forgot about Marshall. Not sure how he will fit in.
 
If I was putting together the depth chart, I'd go

Conway / Lieberman / Washington / Kelley
Adams / Marshall / Averbuck
James / McManamen / Aka Gorski
Herndon / Moemeka
Barnes / Naughton

Certainly there will be times we go small, but I think generally we'll start the game with a bigger lineup.
 
Starting 5 will be:
Conway
Adams
James
Herndon
Barnes

Marshall, Gorski, Leiberman, McManamen, Washington and Naughton will round out our rotation. Might see Marshall in ahead of James. I think Moemka is the only redshirt. Kelley and Averbuck will not redshirt as they are walk-ons. Man, if we could find a one and done post for next year it sure appears that we have a lot of depth. :)
 
From what I hear Barnes has a LONG ways to go offensively. I don't think we can pencil him in as a starter just yet. I like what I saw from Herndon last year, but I agree that his durability has to be a concern. Hopefully Watsabaugh has him on the Larry Nance lifting program!
 
I have no idea who will start (other than Adams and Herndon), but this thread does a pretty good job of highlighting the uncertainty.

Just in the first three posts, we have three different projected PG's (Washington, Lieberman, Conway) and 3 different SF's (James, McManamen, Gorski).

Like others, I don't see any scholarship players redshirting, unless we sign a transfer in the current class that has to sit for a year. We only have 4 frontcourt players on the projected roster right now (Barnes, Herndon, Moemeka, Naughton) so all will have to play somewhat. Backcourt depth is actually pretty good as I could see any of the 8 scholarship players getting playing time at the 1-3. Obviously some of them will fall out of the rotation but it's a good sign for depth.

So inexperienced and thin in the frontcourt. This is years of striking out on frontcourt recruits coming back to haunt us.
 
WYO1016 said:
From what I hear Barnes has a LONG ways to go offensively. I don't think we can pencil him in as a starter just yet.
Click to expand...
What other option do we have? Also, remember that Cooke was rather limited offensively, as well, relying primarily on dump-offs for dunks and layups.

I don't think it's wise to give Herndon big minutes at center. He may play there for stretches, but I hope he doesn't see the bulk of his minutes there.
 
WYO1016 said:
From what I hear Barnes has a LONG ways to go offensively. I don't think we can pencil him in as a starter just yet. I like what I saw from Herndon last year, but I agree that his durability has to be a concern. Hopefully Watsabaugh has him on the Larry Nance lifting program!
Click to expand...
Barnes will be just fine IMO. He needs to continue getting better, but PT will do that. Based on his number last year.....give him 30 minutes and he could be close to an 8 and 8 kind of guy as a sophomore. Decent defensive numbers...blocks and steals. Needs to take better care of the ball.

Personally, I saw improvement from his first appearance to his last in the limited minutes he played last year.

http://www.gowyo.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/jonathan_barnes_901834.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
JimmyDimes said:
WYO1016 said:
From what I hear Barnes has a LONG ways to go offensively. I don't think we can pencil him in as a starter just yet. I like what I saw from Herndon last year, but I agree that his durability has to be a concern. Hopefully Watsabaugh has him on the Larry Nance lifting program!
Click to expand...
Barnes will be just fine IMO. He needs to continue getting better, but PT will do that. Based on his number last year.....give him 30 minutes and he could be close to an 8 and 8 kind of guy as a sophomore. Decent defensive numbers...blocks and steals. Needs to take better care of the ball.

Personally, I saw improvement from his first appearance to his last in the limited minutes he played last year.

http://www.gowyo.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/jonathan_barnes_901834.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Click to expand...

Yeah, he didn't really play enough to make any judgements about his potential. To me, he looked like a raw freshman playing in garbage time (which he was). Alternating between uncertainty about where he should be and trying too hard.

By all accounts he is a hard worker and very coachable and he has the build to compete in the post in the MWC. He was a little bit late to the game and wasn't part of a very good HS program. Probably should have redshirted as his best years are ahead of him. I think he will be an asset long term. There will be significant growing pains at first though I think, but you have to be patient with big men sometimes.
 
I too am hearing from sources that Barnes is just really, really raw offensively and ideally would redshirt next year. Loads of potential, and obviously very strong, but doesn't know where to be on the floor, doesn't have a go-to shot, is getting frustrated, etc. etc. He is not as springy as Cooke either, although few are. Needs lots of work. Getting Grandy sure would have been nice.
 
The only two people that I know for sure will have starting spots will be Adams and Herndon.

After that who knows. Mcmanimal could be a starter just because he started some games when Nance and Herdon were out.
Also I would say the person with the best shot to start at the point is most likely Trey Washington. Conway was a good recruiting pick up but it will be Trey's third year in the program and he already knows how division 1 ball is and Conway will still have a big learning curve the first half of the year so I don't see him starting. I also think Leiberman has a better shot to start than Conway does right off the bat anyways.

What I think Shyatt might end up doing though since we have limited front court players and we are so young is play a 4 out 1 in system next year with Herndon being the guy who is inside. We might see a team that shoots a lot of 3's also since are lone inside guy can step out and hit the 3 ball. We will also have more guys that can create their own shot off of the dribble more so than we have had in a long time but a lot of that talent will be young with the exception of Adams.

So next year on offense we should be a very quick team in the half court sets and be a pretty decent long distance shooting team. I don't think we will be a running team though. I know some have thought that maybe we would start running because of the type of recruits we are getting now but I don't think we will based on things I have read like Billy Donovan while at Florida with Shyatt saying that him and Shyatt saw very differently on offensive schemes. Billy said he likes to run more and Shyatt thought he should slow it down and grind it out more. So i think we will still see an overall slow pace of play.

Defense is where I will be concerned even though Shyatt is a good defensive coach. We could end up having a lot of match up problems down low with so much inexperience.
 
I think at this point its fifth year transfer or hold the schollie for 2016.

I still think Moemeka redshirts. I'm expecting Barnes, Herndon, and either Naughton or James in the post rotation. Were not afraid to play a three man post. I wouldn't be surprised if we play with James at the four either.

My two deep:

Pg: Liebermann/Conway
Sg: Adams/Washington
Sf: Mcmanamen/Gorski
Pf: Herndon/James
C: Barnes/Naughton

Thats how I expect the season to start. At the end I'm expecting:

PG: Conway/Leibermann
SG: Adams/Washington
SF: Mcmanamen/Gorski
PF: James/Naughton
C: Herndon/Barnes
 
Barnes just needs to get a handle on offense, and I think he'll be a very good starter. Even if it's just around the rim, with his size, he won't get pushed out of the way much.
 
I don't see any of the freshmen starting at the beginning of the year. The only freshman we have ever started(for more than a game or two) was Adams, I beleive and that was late in the season after the Martinez suspension. There is just too much of a learnign curve and SHyatt won't put you out there unless you know what you are doing. I think the Frosh will play buit not start. I hope Barnes improves enough to start or we pick up a 5th year post player still. hten I see the starting 5 as:

PG/SG Adams
PG/SG Washington
SF Mcmanamen or Marshall
PF Herndon
C Barnes/5th year

If we don't get one and Barnes isn't ready then we will go small with

G Adams
G Washington
G Marshall
F McManamen
F Herndon


Will be a similar lineup to what Boise used with everyone on the court being a shooter. I have faith Herndon will continue to get stronger and have no worries about him playing post defense. The others will be at a height advantage down low.

One thing I definately think we will finnalyl see a deeper bench(at least at the guard) just because we don't have many Jr and Srs to lean on. Everyone wil lbe young so they will be thrown in.
 
I can't see Barnes starting or even getting a lot of minutes unless he figures out how to clean the butter off his hands.
 
Adv8RU12 said:
I can't see Barnes starting or even getting a lot of minutes unless he figures out how to clean the butter off his hands.
Click to expand...

Remember when an akward baby-giraffe looking freshman named Larry Nance could barely run up and down the court?

Remember when Grabau looked like a d3 player at best his freshman year?

Just wait man. We have a development program. Barnes will be better.
 
BeaverPoke said:
Adv8RU12 said:
I can't see Barnes starting or even getting a lot of minutes unless he figures out how to clean the butter off his hands.
Click to expand...

Remember when an akward baby-giraffe looking freshman named Larry Nance could barely run up and down the court?

Remember when Grabau looked like a d3 player at best his freshman year?

Just wait man. We have a development program. Barnes will be better.
Click to expand...
Barnes is going to be a monster. A MONSTER. When he graduates we will be talking about him as fondly as we are of Larry Nance. The dude has what most of our recruits don't and the one thing that cannot be taught, FREAK OF NATURE SIZE. He is our most physically gifted player bar none. This year will be another tune up year but his junior and senior years are going to be off the chain. Mark it down.
 
BeaverPoke said:
Adv8RU12 said:
I can't see Barnes starting or even getting a lot of minutes unless he figures out how to clean the butter off his hands.
Click to expand...

Remember when an akward baby-giraffe looking freshman named Larry Nance could barely run up and down the court?

Remember when Grabau looked like a d3 player at best his freshman year?

Just wait man. We have a development program. Barnes will be better.
Click to expand...


I agree with Grabau, he did not look D1 ready,much less MWC ready as a Freshman. I actually think Lieberman's career arc could mirror Grabau's (their freshman stats are remarkably similar, if you look at a player on KenPom it will show a list of 4 or 5 player seasons that are most similar to the player in question and Grabau's freshman season shows up there on Lieberman. I have never seen a player from the same program show up before as it sorts the stats for all college basketball player-seasons over the last few years so literally thousands of potential matches).

Nance, OTOH, was not at all as you describe. Nance had one of the best seasons for a true freshman big man we have seen at UW in a long time. Only two big men had better statistical seasons as true freshman in the last 20 years and one of them was M'baye who was debatable (averaged 5.6 ppg/3.2 rpg to Nance's 4.1/4.0) and those numbers were on a terrible team while Nance was on a decent CBI team (plus M'baye was like 20 years old as a freshman). The other one was Josh Davis who was unmatched in recent history for a true freshman big man at something like 8/6 and a lot of minutes on a NIT team. Remember Nance's "Michael Jordan" dunk? He was a freshman. He was skinny, but very fluid for a big man.

Not that I disagree about Barnes' potential though. I honestly think he should have red-shirted last year as his best years are ahead of him. He obviously has the size/strength to compete in the MWC and he isn't a stiff athletically. Maybe not a bouncy athlete, but certainly athletic enough at his size. He just has a long ways to go as a basketball player. I expect him and Herndon to be a very formidable duo of 6'10" big men when they are seniors. With Herndon's length and versatility and Barnes strength we will have a very good starting front court in a couple of years.

For next year though, it's going to be kind of painful. Barnes has a long ways to go and we are going to have to ask either Naughton or Moemeka (maybe both) to play some minutes and both are "developmental" type prospects. We haven't had too many big men that really contribute as true freshman (as I noted earlier) and those that have (Nance, Davis, Mbaye, and Ugo are really the only 4 of the last 20 years as true freshman, Waddell was solid as a RS freshman) turned out to be big time players. Is Naughton or Moemeka the next Ugo/Davis/Nance? Maybe, but that's a lot to hope for. That's why Glaze would have been so important. He could have soaked up 25-30 minutes in the rotation with Herndon/Barnes and allowed one or both of Naughton/Moemeka to redshirt. Oh well, we will make do with what we have.
 
Back to the OP, one thing I hadn't mentioned previously is that I don't think we should get too hung up on the specific positions. They aren't as concrete as we sometimes think of them as.

TSPoke noted it on his depth chart, but I think specifically in terms of the backcourt we shouldn't really think of it as having a PG and a SG. Who was the PG last year? Grabau? Sort of, Adams brought the ball up the court on plenty of occassions and called the play and even though Grabau did so more frequently it was Adams who was the true initiator of the offense off the bounce on most occassions (which is why he had a much higher assist rate than Grabau).

Based on that, I think we have to think of Adams as really being the PG and with his experience I expect him to be driving the bus next year. With that in mind I would guess that his starting backcourt mate will be the player most equipped to score (and defend of course, this is still Shyatt's program). Based on that, I think it will be Trey Washington. I could be wrong of course, but I think Conway will need a little seasoning before he is a consistent offensive threat at this level and with Washington's speed and an extra year in the program I think he may be more equipped to do so than Lieberman (Washington actually shot the ball better from the perimeter as a freshman than Lieberman too, but watching them I think they can both be excellent perimeter shooters over time).

A lot depends on how much Washington developed defensively during his redshirt year and how quickly Conway's jump shot comes along.

One thing I see for next year is that we will rely on Adams more than we have a single perimeter player since Brandon Ewing. He will have to score, create for others, and take the toughest defensive assignment every night. Oh, and probably play 35 minutes doing it. I think he is up to the challenge.
 
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