New Season

[LawPoke]

How much of this is public record and how much of this is speculation? Was there a press conference where Bohl talked about this discussion with TB?

My sense is we are all on the outside here and looking at an incomplete puzzle without the full picture. We don't know why TB did what he did, we just know the result and then some folks try to fit what we see with a narrative.

For me, I'm a compete athletic department outsider who is looking at results.....TB hires bad coaches so he hired a bad coach...pretty much fits what I've seen from him. I don't know why he does what he does so I don't traffic in that.

For some, TB has a purpose on this earth to destroy UW athletics and every seemingly bad decision is actually a resounding personal success in his dastardly mission.

All I have is circumstantial evidence and hearsay. Fairly compelling - but none of it direct.

 

[307bball]

All I have is circumstantial evidence and hearsay. Fairly compelling - but none of it direct.

Thanks, I think it's enough to fire Burman just from what we know. All of what you are claiming could be 100% true and none of it would be needed for me to move on from him. Maybe he just legitimately thought Sawful and Glenn and DC and Edwards and Schroyer were going to be a good coaches....if that's the case then send him packing. Anything else is just window dressing.

 

[PorkerPoke]

All I have is circumstantial evidence and hearsay. Fairly compelling - but none of it direct.

IMO:

Bohl to Sawful = Shyatt to Edwards

Both formers had sons in well placed assistant positions and it seemed very prearranged from my recliner.

The most telling thing with Sawful was immediately naming Svoboda as the starter because CB said to do it without any further examination of recruiting needs. The previously referenced blind monkey would have known that was not the best move in order to put a strong offense on the field based on the style Sawful hired his OC to implement.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

How much of this is public record and how much of this is speculation? Was there a press conference where Bohl talked about this discussion with TB?

My sense is we are all on the outside here and looking at an incomplete puzzle without the full picture. We don't know why TB did what he did, we just know the result and then some folks try to fit what we see with a narrative.

For me, I'm a compete athletic department outsider who is looking at results.....TB hires bad coaches so he hired a bad coach...pretty much fits what I've seen from him. I don't know why he does what he does so I don't traffic in that.

For some, TB has a purpose on this earth to destroy UW athletics and every seemingly bad decision is actually a resounding personal success in his dastardly mission.

Now there's some strawman arguments, lol.

I actually think prior to PBJ, TB made decent hire decisions. I remember wanting Thedford but Bohl made a lot of sense. I remember thinking no way we land DC but he did, regretfully.

Coincidence is a term used when we can't see the levers and pulleys.

Thanks, I think it's enough to fire Burman just from what we know. All of what you are claiming could be 100% true and none of it would be needed for me to move on from him. Maybe he just legitimately thought Sawful and Glenn and DC and Edwards and Schroyer were going to be a good coaches....if that's the case then send him packing. Anything else is just window dressing.

He fired Glenn. He only hired DC and Bohl. Both were reasonable hires after proper searches.

I think he would have made a reasonable hire this round if it weren't for other circumstances.

 

[307bball]

Now there's some strawman arguments, lol.

I actually think prior to PBJ, TB made decent hire decisions. I remember wanting Thedford but Bohl made a lot of sense. I remember thinking no way we land DC but he did, regretfully.

Coincidence is a term used when we can't see the levers and pulleys.
He fired Glenn. He only hired DC and Bohl. Both were reasonable hires after proper searches.

I think he would have made a reasonable hire this round if it weren't for other circumstances.

Apologies for the hyperbole....I tried to make it obviously tongue -in-cheek and failed.

Thanks for the clarification on Glen. Didn't TB hire Schroyer and Edwards? Also.... Don't care if DC was a reasonable hire. Bad coach. I'll take an unreasonable hire that is a good coach any day. I'm very surprised that you of all people had hope that a hiring by TB was going to work out.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Apologies for the hyperbole....I tried to make it obviously tongue -in-cheek and failed.

Thanks for the clarification on Glen. Didn't TB hire Schroyer and Edwards? Also.... Don't care if DC was a reasonable hire. Bad coach. I'll take an unreasonable hire that is a good coach any day. I'm very surprised that you of all people had hope that a hiring by TB was going to work out.

I separate bball and football. Burman decimated the bball program; no argument.

He's made 2 football hires before this. Both made a lot of sense. Before bashing DC too much, you do realize he had the same number of bowl appearances and only 1 less win in 5 years than CB, right? In the 5th year, Bohl had 1 more conference win going 6-6 where DC was 5-7. No bowl for either of them. Bohl had 2, 8 win seasons. DC had a 7 win and an 8 win. It would be splitting hairs comparing DC's 5 year tenure and Bohl's first 5 years. DC turned out to be an ahole and had other issues, but he wasn't a bad hire at the time.

Had this just been about the football program, I think TB would have made a reasonable hire and it wouldn't have been PBJ. Obviously speculation, but certainly the most logical conclusion. Obviously there is no way to know if that hire would have worked out. However, that hire, like DC and Bohl, would likely have the skill set and experience to be hc in the MWC. It is abundantly clear that PBJ possessed neither. Back to the point. I blame the process more so than PBJ. He is what he is and always has been.

 

[Cowboy20]

The timing of Bohl’s retirement made it pretty difficult in the transfer portal era for a search, so I don’t fault Burman for giving Sawvel a chance. The bottom line is, Wyoming fans are hard to please. We get mad when there’s a promotion within, we get mad when coaches leave for greener pastures, and we get tired of 6-8 win seasons. Personally, I hope Sawvel can turn this season into a bowl season, and get the players a few more practices to build on. Ultimately, the best thing that could happen is we have winning seasons and our program becomes a developmental program for up and coming players and coaches. It’s not fun knowing that is what a G6 program is, but it’s reality.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

The timing of Bohl’s retirement made it pretty difficult in the transfer portal era for a search, so I don’t fault Burman for giving Sawvel a chance. The bottom line is, Wyoming fans are hard to please. We get mad when there’s a promotion within, we get mad when coaches leave for greener pastures, and we get tired of 6-8 win seasons. Personally, I hope Sawvel can turn this season into a bowl season, and get the players a few more practices to build on. Ultimately, the best thing that could happen is we have winning seasons and our program becomes a developmental program for up and coming players and coaches. It’s not fun knowing that is what a G6 program is, but it’s reality.

We've had some good assistants leave but that's expected and coaches leaving pretty much ends there.

There were options at the time of PBJ hire and TB himself said he had suscpions in the summer that CB retirement might be coming. I seriously doubt this caught TB flat footed in Dec. Maybe but that would be extreme incompetence and bs move by CB.

My suspicion has always been that only the defensive coordinator was eligible for promotion and there were no other options explored.

We do both agree on hoping PBJ turns this around. Thus far he's done nothing to suggest he truly was a merit hire.

 

[307bball]

I separate bball and football. Burman decimated the bball program; no argument.

He's made 2 football hires before this. Both made a lot of sense. Before bashing DC too much, you do realize he had the same number of bowl appearances and only 1 less win in 5 years than CB, right? In the 5th year, Bohl had 1 more conference win going 6-6 where DC was 5-7. No bowl for either of them. Bohl had 2, 8 win seasons. DC had a 7 win and an 8 win. It would be splitting hairs comparing DC's 5 year tenure and Bohl's first 5 years. DC turned out to be an ahole and had other issues, but he wasn't a bad hire at the time.

Had this just been about the football program, I think TB would have made a reasonable hire and it wouldn't have been PBJ. Obviously speculation, but certainly the most logical conclusion. Obviously there is no way to know if that hire would have worked out. However, that hire, like DC and Bohl, would likely have the skill set and experience to be hc in the MWC. It is abundantly clear that PBJ possessed neither. Back to the point. I blame the process more so than PBJ. He is what he is and always has been.

College sports is a results business. It's cut-throat. As long as hires that "make sense" and are "reasonable" is the bar, I hope we can content ourselves with the results from the last 25 years (including the Bohl years). All of Burmans moves that "make sense" have put is where we are at. You and others have a bone to pick around the circumstances of Sawful's hiring....great, I could not care less...you don't seem to get that. I care that Sawful sux as a coach. For the next coach, If TB (or whoever replaces him, god-willing) gets a guy that wins back to back conference championships....and if he breaks every f-ing norm and rule about what "makes sense", nobody, including you is going to care.

I've been around long enough and followed college sports long enough to know that there is no rulebook for success...in fact, if you can say anything about what gets wins in college athletics, it's probably people who don't pay the rules too much attention that succeed the most. Pearl-clutching about player benefits, insider hiring, shady donations, the role of the "student-athlete", etc, will get you competitive in the ivy league but nowhere else.

If I thought there was a snowball's chance in hell that anybody could prove a 10th of the the stuff that is being claimed about the conversations and motivations around the hiring of Edwards and Sawful, I would be soo happy because the admin could possibly be forced to move on from TB...Unfortunately, it all "made sense". That focus is what is keeping TB in his job. Now, it doesn't make sense to you...and from an academic standpoint I'm convinced by the case you lay out....But I know (and I think, deep down we all know), If you don't make it explicitly about results it will always go the direction it has gone. "Making Sense" will always be in the eye of the beholder....Wins and championships are not. That is why I don't give a fig for what "makes sense".

*edit* I will say....I'm sort of surprising myself in this conversation. I realize I have changed on this topic particularly. Ironically due to conversations with you (as I recall them).