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Mark Cuban isn't a fan of our O...

R

ragtimejoe1

Well-known member
Well, he is not a fan of slow paced offenses, not just our offense.

"It's horrible. It's ridiculous," Cuban stated. "It's worse than high school. You've got 20 to 25 seconds of passing on the perimeter and then somebody goes and tries to make a play and do something stupid, and scoring's gone down."
Click to expand...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2424701-mark-cuban-talks-state-of-college-basketball-impact-on-nba?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First point is that I find it interesting that his comment about 20-25 seconds followed by a bad play criticism is something I've seen on this board about our team. Not saying anything other than apparently this isn't a criticism of WYO necessarily (by our fans) just that some of our fans align with the Cuban mentality (not saying right or wrong, just saying).

Secondly, since this offense is so terrible and boring to watch (note sarcasm), I find it interesting that both attendance and TV ratings increased and were stellar for this year's tournament. Highest TV ratings in 22 years. I would like to see data suggesting that the slow tempo is killing the game? From what I can find, it seems to be the opposite?

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12553346/attendance-ncaa-tournament-sees-boost" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/07/media/march-madness-tv-ratings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Well, he is not a fan of slow paced offenses, not just our offense.

"It's horrible. It's ridiculous," Cuban stated. "It's worse than high school. You've got 20 to 25 seconds of passing on the perimeter and then somebody goes and tries to make a play and do something stupid, and scoring's gone down."
Click to expand...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2424701-mark-cuban-talks-state-of-college-basketball-impact-on-nba?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First point is that I find it interesting that his comment about 20-25 seconds followed by a bad play criticism is something I've seen on this board about our team. Not saying anything other than apparently this isn't a criticism of WYO necessarily (by our fans) just that some of our fans align with the Cuban mentality (not saying right or wrong, just saying).

Secondly, since this offense is so terrible and boring to watch (note sarcasm), I find it interesting that both attendance and TV ratings increased and were stellar for this year's tournament. Highest TV ratings in 22 years. I would like to see data suggesting that the slow tempo is killing the game? From what I can find, it seems to be the opposite?

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12553346/attendance-ncaa-tournament-sees-boost" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/07/media/march-madness-tv-ratings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Click to expand...


You have to consider who is speaking. Mark Cuban is a businessman, and a very successful one. Who are the NBA's primary competitors for the sports entertainment dollar? The NFL, to an extent, but due to the seasonal nature of various sports you could argue that their primary competition is College Basketball and the NHL. Would you expect a business leader to tout the benefits of his competitors product?

I have a couple of thoughts on the current criticism of College Basketball:

1. Some of it reminds me of the criticism that is still frequently lobbed at the NBA. I hear people say things like "it's all one on one", "they don't play defense", etc. This is usually in the context of explaining why they prefer college basketball. Those criticisms primarily show that the person doesn't really watch the NBA. The NBA is a far superior basketball product to College Basketball. The game is played at a higher level across the board. Skill, athleticism, preparation, etc. I love College Basketball, but the NBA is a superior game. Cuban's criticism of College Basketball is similar. College Basketball is an incredibly diverse sport with over 350 teams in D-1 alone with a wide variety of styles and varying levels of talent and athleticism. It's not that easy to pigeonhole.

2. There is some merit in general, as I do think some coaches tend to over coach and some of the officiating really disrupts the flow of the game. However, in terms of tempo, I don't know how you can watch teams like Northern Iowa, Virginia, and Wisconsin and describe them as "boring" if you are a fan of College Basketball. They share the basketball, they cut hard, they create mismatches and generate quality looks. The tempo is slow, but it does not at all represent Cuban's description.


Now, in Wyoming's case, you have to understand the difference in skill level and/or athleticism between us and those three teams. We play a similar style, we just don't do it as well. Some of that is an opportunity for improvement in execution and some of it is simply a function of player skill level.

I am in favor of a 30 second shot clock and greater clarity in officiating, but I don't think we need to go crazy describing the "ills" of a sport that is obviously still very successful.
 
NowherePoke said:
ragtimejoe1 said:
Well, he is not a fan of slow paced offenses, not just our offense.

"It's horrible. It's ridiculous," Cuban stated. "It's worse than high school. You've got 20 to 25 seconds of passing on the perimeter and then somebody goes and tries to make a play and do something stupid, and scoring's gone down."
Click to expand...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2424701-mark-cuban-talks-state-of-college-basketball-impact-on-nba?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First point is that I find it interesting that his comment about 20-25 seconds followed by a bad play criticism is something I've seen on this board about our team. Not saying anything other than apparently this isn't a criticism of WYO necessarily (by our fans) just that some of our fans align with the Cuban mentality (not saying right or wrong, just saying).

Secondly, since this offense is so terrible and boring to watch (note sarcasm), I find it interesting that both attendance and TV ratings increased and were stellar for this year's tournament. Highest TV ratings in 22 years. I would like to see data suggesting that the slow tempo is killing the game? From what I can find, it seems to be the opposite?

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12553346/attendance-ncaa-tournament-sees-boost" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/07/media/march-madness-tv-ratings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Click to expand...


You have to consider who is speaking. Mark Cuban is a businessman, and a very successful one. Who are the NBA's primary competitors for the sports entertainment dollar? The NFL, to an extent, but due to the seasonal nature of various sports you could argue that their primary competition is College Basketball and the NHL. Would you expect a business leader to tout the benefits of his competitors product?

I have a couple of thoughts on the current criticism of College Basketball:

1. Some of it reminds me of the criticism that is still frequently lobbed at the NBA. I hear people say things like "it's all one on one", "they don't play defense", etc. This is usually in the context of explaining why they prefer college basketball. Those criticisms primarily show that the person doesn't really watch the NBA. The NBA is a far superior basketball product to College Basketball. The game is played at a higher level across the board. Skill, athleticism, preparation, etc. I love College Basketball, but the NBA is a superior game. Cuban's criticism of College Basketball is similar. College Basketball is an incredibly diverse sport with over 350 teams in D-1 alone with a wide variety of styles and varying levels of talent and athleticism. It's not that easy to pigeonhole.

2. There is some merit in general, as I do think some coaches tend to over coach and some of the officiating really disrupts the flow of the game. However, in terms of tempo, I don't know how you can watch teams like Northern Iowa, Virginia, and Wisconsin and describe them as "boring" if you are a fan of College Basketball. They share the basketball, they cut hard, they create mismatches and generate quality looks. The tempo is slow, but it does not at all represent Cuban's description.


Now, in Wyoming's case, you have to understand the difference in skill level and/or athleticism between us and those three teams. We play a similar style, we just don't do it as well. Some of that is an opportunity for improvement in execution and some of it is simply a function of player skill level.

I am in favor of a 30 second shot clock and greater clarity in officiating, but I don't think we need to go crazy describing the "ills" of a sport that is obviously still very successful.
Click to expand...

Overall I agree with most things you said. However, the NBA product is nowhere near "far superior" to the college game. The college game has pageantry, it has rivalries that have history and roots, and it has rabid fandom. Colin Cowherd said it best on his show the other day. He said that fans of the NBA are basketball fans who want to be entertained. They're in big cities where people expect a spectacle. Fans of college basketball are fans of their school. It's a tradition, it's passed down the generations, it's a way of life. Not that the NBA doesn't have true fans like that, but nothing like the NCAA. That's what makes March Madness so special. The NBA playoffs are a joke until Lebrons team makes the finals or are a complete joke if Lebrons team is eliminated from the playoffs before the finals.

I am intrigued by the 30 second shot clock though...
 
ItSucksToBeACSURam said:
NowherePoke said:
ragtimejoe1 said:
Well, he is not a fan of slow paced offenses, not just our offense.

"It's horrible. It's ridiculous," Cuban stated. "It's worse than high school. You've got 20 to 25 seconds of passing on the perimeter and then somebody goes and tries to make a play and do something stupid, and scoring's gone down."
Click to expand...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2424701-mark-cuban-talks-state-of-college-basketball-impact-on-nba?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

First point is that I find it interesting that his comment about 20-25 seconds followed by a bad play criticism is something I've seen on this board about our team. Not saying anything other than apparently this isn't a criticism of WYO necessarily (by our fans) just that some of our fans align with the Cuban mentality (not saying right or wrong, just saying).

Secondly, since this offense is so terrible and boring to watch (note sarcasm), I find it interesting that both attendance and TV ratings increased and were stellar for this year's tournament. Highest TV ratings in 22 years. I would like to see data suggesting that the slow tempo is killing the game? From what I can find, it seems to be the opposite?

http://espn.go.com/womens-college-basketball/tournament/2015/story/_/id/12553346/attendance-ncaa-tournament-sees-boost" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://money.cnn.com/2015/04/07/media/march-madness-tv-ratings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Click to expand...


You have to consider who is speaking. Mark Cuban is a businessman, and a very successful one. Who are the NBA's primary competitors for the sports entertainment dollar? The NFL, to an extent, but due to the seasonal nature of various sports you could argue that their primary competition is College Basketball and the NHL. Would you expect a business leader to tout the benefits of his competitors product?

I have a couple of thoughts on the current criticism of College Basketball:

1. Some of it reminds me of the criticism that is still frequently lobbed at the NBA. I hear people say things like "it's all one on one", "they don't play defense", etc. This is usually in the context of explaining why they prefer college basketball. Those criticisms primarily show that the person doesn't really watch the NBA. The NBA is a far superior basketball product to College Basketball. The game is played at a higher level across the board. Skill, athleticism, preparation, etc. I love College Basketball, but the NBA is a superior game. Cuban's criticism of College Basketball is similar. College Basketball is an incredibly diverse sport with over 350 teams in D-1 alone with a wide variety of styles and varying levels of talent and athleticism. It's not that easy to pigeonhole.

2. There is some merit in general, as I do think some coaches tend to over coach and some of the officiating really disrupts the flow of the game. However, in terms of tempo, I don't know how you can watch teams like Northern Iowa, Virginia, and Wisconsin and describe them as "boring" if you are a fan of College Basketball. They share the basketball, they cut hard, they create mismatches and generate quality looks. The tempo is slow, but it does not at all represent Cuban's description.


Now, in Wyoming's case, you have to understand the difference in skill level and/or athleticism between us and those three teams. We play a similar style, we just don't do it as well. Some of that is an opportunity for improvement in execution and some of it is simply a function of player skill level.

I am in favor of a 30 second shot clock and greater clarity in officiating, but I don't think we need to go crazy describing the "ills" of a sport that is obviously still very successful.
Click to expand...

Overall I agree with most things you said. However, the NBA product is nowhere near "far superior" to the college game. The college game has pageantry, it has rivalries that have history and roots, and it has rabid fandom. Colin Cowherd said it best on his show the other day. He said that fans of the NBA are basketball fans who want to be entertained. They're in big cities where people expect a spectacle. Fans of college basketball are fans of their school. It's a tradition, it's passed down the generations, it's a way of life. Not that the NBA doesn't have true fans like that, but nothing like the NCAA. That's what makes March Madness so special. The NBA playoffs are a joke until Lebrons team makes the finals or are a complete joke if Lebrons team is eliminated from the playoffs before the finals.

I am intrigued by the 30 second shot clock though...
Click to expand...


I prefer College Basketball myself, for many of the reasons you mentioned. The history, characters, diversity, and emotional investment make College hoops a lot more fun. My emotional investment in the Pokes is beyond ridiculous while I don't even have a favorite NBA team. I was speaking more about the actual on the court product. The actual basketball is played at a much higher level in the NBA. It just isn't as much fun, IMO.

I will disagree about the NBA playoffs though. The entire Western Conference playoffs this year are going to be fantastic, and LeBron isn't involved at all. The Eastern Conference playoffs will have to wait for the 2nd round to get interesting as usual because the east sucks beyond Atlanta/Cleveland/Chicago/Toronto, but the West is going to be great.
 
Well since Cuban never played basketball or wasn't a coach, his opinion doesn't matter...

But in all seriousness, I'm sick of the nba complaining about college ball. Can ncaa basketball be improved? Sure! But I don't think it should be molded into a development system for the nba. If the nba wants more developed, nba-ready players coming in then they need to improve their own development system (farm system in baseball as an example). Can college be a springboard to the nba? Sure, but with so few division 1 players having the NBA in their future I think it's important for ncaa basketball to keep their priorities straight and not assume that imitatating the nba is in their best interest.
 
A lot of good points in this thread.

Bottom line for me - and why I hate the NBA (and never watch a minute of it)...is summed decently up by Cuban's comments.
 
I will admit that unless the Pokes or MW are involved, I prefer the NBA to college basketball. Yes the pageantry of college basketball is great and all, but the only pageantry that matters to me is cowboy joe and the level of basketball played in the NBA is so much more entertaining to me. It's not necessarily a style thing but the difference to me between watching an NBA game and a college game is almost as large as trying to watch women's basketball vs. men's.
 
cali2wyo said:
Well since Cuban never played basketball or wasn't a coach, his opinion doesn't matter...

But in all seriousness, I'm sick of the nba complaining about college ball. Can ncaa basketball be improved? Sure! But I don't think it should be molded into a development system for the nba. If the nba wants more developed, nba-ready players coming in then they need to improve their own development system (farm system in baseball as an example). Can college be a springboard to the nba? Sure, but with so few division 1 players having the NBA in their future I think it's important for ncaa basketball to keep their priorities straight and not assume that imitatating the nba is in their best interest.
Click to expand...
I agree. I love college basketball because it is different than the NBA. If I wanted to see isolation offense and swiss cheese defense I would watch the NBA. I like watching the college game because styles matter. Coaches matter. Offensive sets matter. POSSESSIONS MATTER!! The NFL has ruined college football and I do not want to see that with Basketball. I don't watch any football outside of the Cowboys because it is impossible to see where one league ends and the other begins. Its all the same, theres no separation. If the NBA is so strong and so awesome and so thriving, then why does it care what the NCAA does or how well the ratings are for March Madness? I really like and respect Mark Cuban and what he says, but on this case, if he doesn't like what he sees, change the channel.

These are all just my opinions and thoughts, please don't take it as me attacking poor Mark Cuban on social media.... ;)
 
ItSucksToBeACSURam said:
cali2wyo said:
Well since Cuban never played basketball or wasn't a coach, his opinion doesn't matter...

But in all seriousness, I'm sick of the nba complaining about college ball. Can ncaa basketball be improved? Sure! But I don't think it should be molded into a development system for the nba. If the nba wants more developed, nba-ready players coming in then they need to improve their own development system (farm system in baseball as an example). Can college be a springboard to the nba? Sure, but with so few division 1 players having the NBA in their future I think it's important for ncaa basketball to keep their priorities straight and not assume that imitatating the nba is in their best interest.
Click to expand...
I agree. I love college basketball because it is different than the NBA. If I wanted to see isolation offense and swiss cheese defense I would watch the NBA. I like watching the college game because styles matter. Coaches matter. Offensive sets matter. POSSESSIONS MATTER!! The NFL has ruined college football and I do not want to see that with Basketball. I don't watch any football outside of the Cowboys because it is impossible to see where one league ends and the other begins. Its all the same, theres no separation. If the NBA is so strong and so awesome and so thriving, then why does it care what the NCAA does or how well the ratings are for March Madness? I really like and respect Mark Cuban and what he says, but on this case, if he doesn't like what he sees, change the channel.

These are all just my opinions and thoughts, please don't take it as me attacking poor Mark Cuban on social media.... ;)
Click to expand...

If you were talking about the NBA from the mid 90s I'd agree with your isolation offense comment but the modern NBA is a very different game and teams that go iso-heavy are usually some of the worst in the NBA. NBA offenses and defenses are very intricate and nuanced systems, and yes defense is played in the NBA. I know I won't convert anyone but let's not pretend there aren't plenty of college programs and teams that are just as big of Swiss hole defenses as the bad NBA defenses you speak of.
 
calpoke25 said:
I will admit that unless the Pokes or MW are involved, I prefer the NBA to college basketball. Yes the pageantry of college basketball is great and all, but the only pageantry that matters to me is cowboy joe and the level of basketball played in the NBA is so much more entertaining to me. It's not necessarily a style thing but the difference to me between watching an NBA game and a college game is almost as large as trying to watch women's basketball vs. men's.
Click to expand...

If someone gave me season tickets to an NBA team who' arena was right across the street from where I live, I wouldn't waste my time to walk across the street to go to the games.

More power to those who enjoy it though.
 
WYCowboy said:
calpoke25 said:
I will admit that unless the Pokes or MW are involved, I prefer the NBA to college basketball. Yes the pageantry of college basketball is great and all, but the only pageantry that matters to me is cowboy joe and the level of basketball played in the NBA is so much more entertaining to me. It's not necessarily a style thing but the difference to me between watching an NBA game and a college game is almost as large as trying to watch women's basketball vs. men's.
Click to expand...

If someone gave me season tickets to an NBA team who' arena was right across the street from where I live, I wouldn't waste my time to walk across the street to go to the games.

More power to those who enjoy it though.
Click to expand...
I tend to agree. Not my cup of tea.
 
I actually enjoy watching college ball. I don't watch too much NBA ball though. If you want to speed the game up, I can think of a couple of things:

1.) Go to 4 15 minute quarters and add 4 scholarships to each team. (More minutes, more points, more fresh players)
2.) Drop the shot clock to 30 seconds.
3.) Lighten up on the foul calls.
4.) Move the 3 point line back a couple of feet. Spread the defenses out a bit.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the way the game flows as it is.
 
Hey Mark Cuban, you know what I think is horrible and ridiculous? Your refs!

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TheCauldron/status/586406060367355904[/tweet]
 
I follow both the NBA and college ball weekly when they're in-season. There is no debate, the NBA blows away college ball in quality of the sport. That shouldn't come as any shock to anyone. Cuban is right to an extent, and I expect some rule changes going into next season. I absolutely still enjoy college ball, but for example....last night's Blazers-Warriors game had more action in one game then you'll see in a season from some college teams. The NBA is far from perfect, but it's more entertaining without question.

Edit: Things like this happen on a nightly basis. It's a lot of fun in person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhdYpW2ocso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
J-Rod said:
I follow both the NBA and college ball weekly when they're in-season. There is no debate, the NBA blows away college ball in quality of the sport. That shouldn't come as any shock to anyone. Cuban is right to an extent, and I expect some rule changes going into next season. I absolutely still enjoy college ball, but for example....last night's Blazers-Warriors game had more action in one game then you'll see in a season from some college teams. The NBA is far from perfect, but it's more entertaining without question.
Click to expand...
I'll agree with that.
 
J-Rod said:
I follow both the NBA and college ball weekly when they're in-season. There is no debate, the NBA blows away college ball in quality of the sport. That shouldn't come as any shock to anyone. Cuban is right to an extent, and I expect some rule changes going into next season. I absolutely still enjoy college ball, but for example....last night's Blazers-Warriors game had more action in one game then you'll see in a season from some college teams. The NBA is far from perfect, but it's more entertaining without question.

Edit: Things like this happen on a nightly basis. It's a lot of fun in person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhdYpW2ocso" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Click to expand...

Entertaining is a subjective word and to you it's more entertaining and I'm fine with that but it's not to me. I quit watching NBA a while ago because it's 85% pick & roll, 10% passing and 5% entertainment.

It's like watching int the Indy 500 for that one wreck, takes too long and never as exciting as I hoped.
 
Wyo2dal said:
Entertaining is a subjective word and to you it's more entertaining and I'm fine with that but it's not to me. I quit watching NBA a while ago because it's 85% pick & roll, 10% passing and 5% entertainment.

It's like watching int the Indy 500 for that one wreck, takes too long and never as exciting as I hoped.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I just don't find two teams struggling to score 60 points more entertaining than the NBA. I prefer 85% pick & roll, 10% passing and 5% entertainment to 90% waiting for the shot clock to go down and shoot. College ball can get awfully boring sometimes, even when your favorite team is involved. Oddly enough, there is often far more strategy involved in the NBA than college basketball. It's dumbfounding how many elite college basketball coaches still have no concept of a 2-for-1 in late game possessions. It's dumb, unathletic basketball. It's rare to see a well drawn up play.
 
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