Let's distill it down to a few questions...

[ragtimejoe1]

Mainly for the Vigen defenders and strictly talking about O...
1. Do you think the offense is adequate? If yes stop here.
2. If not, do you think it is something uncontrollable like injuries. If yes, stop here.
3. If not, do you think it's players?
4. If players, do you think bad recruiting or bad development?
5. If not players and not something uncontrollable, do you think MWC defenses are just that good?
6. If nothing above, what do you think is the problem on O?

I'm really curious where the Vigen fanboys are at on this?

 

[wyokoke]

1) No
2) It hasn't helped
3) Yes
4) Development mostly

 

[brownngold]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

Damn right. Thank you for the rational post. It isn’t a ‘Vigen defender’, I am a Bohl defender because he has this program in the best shape it has been since about 1997. I’ve had 20 years of watching Cowboys being mud stomped by better teams. Sure I liked Coach Glenn and appreciated the bird but there is no hiding we were down 44-0 against Utah because our program was bad.

It isn’t Vigen as others have said, this is Bohl’s philosophy. And if personnel decisions and offensive decisions are going to be taken out of Bohl’s hands, he is as good as gone. So all you ‘Vigen Hager’s’ need to realize that the last coach that had the program on or above this level was also ran off under similar micromanaging/fan complaining circumstances. If that’s what you want, we’ll then be prepared for 20 years of suck. I’ve had too much heart break over the a Cowboys for years and now that the program is getting close, I don’t want to see that destroyed.

This is Bohl’s philosophy and he has made me a believer that it can work in Laramie. Who gives a shit how many offensive yards we get. It’s wins/losses and being able to compete with the better teams that matter. Under Glenn, under Christensen, under Koenning...any decent team blew us out.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

Scheme is fine. I don't think anyone is asking for air raid. Every Sunday there are lots of pro offenses with way more innovation and productivity.

5 of 6 years with one of the worst offensive units in the country in terms of productivity. I'm asking if that's fine? If it's not, does Vigen just need more than 6 years to get an offense going?

 

[brownngold]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

Scheme is fine. I don't think anyone is asking for air raid. Every Sunday there are lots of pro offenses with way more innovation and productivity.

5 of 6 years with one of the worst offensive units in the country in terms of productivity. I'm asking if that's fine? If it's not, does Vigen just need more than 6 years to get an offense going?

We play on Saturdays without the benefit of 53 NFL caliber players.

Easiest way to say this is google 90's Nebraska football.

That's what Bohl is trying to duplicate here it takes time.

And if he fires Vigen tomorrow I don't care just let Craig Fucking Bohl run this team and stop as fans and media trying to dictate how this man runs his team.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

Scheme is fine. I don't think anyone is asking for air raid. Every Sunday there are lots of pro offenses with way more innovation and productivity.

5 of 6 years with one of the worst offensive units in the country in terms of productivity. I'm asking if that's fine? If it's not, does Vigen just need more than 6 years to get an offense going?

We play on Saturdays without the benefit of 53 NFL caliber players.

Easiest way to say this is google 90's Nebraska football.

That's what Bohl is trying to duplicate here it takes time.

And if he fires Vigen tomorrow I don't care just let Craig Fucking Bohl run this team and stop as fans and media trying to dictate how this man runs his team.

So you think the offense is fine?

 

[WyoVaquero]

Situational Football is the problem. The scheme is fine, it is just our play calling within, especially in crucial situations the pokes are very predictable. Bohl has built a good program, we have talent, depth and recruiting is going very well. As frustrating as the losses have been this season. The future is very bright and this shit will get fixed. Pokes will finish 8-4 this year and then win back to back MWC titles in 20, 21. Mark it down.

 

[brownngold]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

Scheme is fine. I don't think anyone is asking for air raid. Every Sunday there are lots of pro offenses with way more innovation and productivity.

5 of 6 years with one of the worst offensive units in the country in terms of productivity. I'm asking if that's fine? If it's not, does Vigen just need more than 6 years to get an offense going?

We play on Saturdays without the benefit of 53 NFL caliber players.

Easiest way to say this is google 90's Nebraska football.

That's what Bohl is trying to duplicate here it takes time.

And if he fires Vigen tomorrow I don't care just let Craig Fucking Bohl run this team and stop as fans and media trying to dictate how this man runs his team.

So you think the offense is fine?

I think Craig Bohl is more qualified than you and I ( I'm not saying you're not, never met you) to make that decision and if fans and media keeping pushing we may lose him.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

Scheme is fine. I don't think anyone is asking for air raid. Every Sunday there are lots of pro offenses with way more innovation and productivity.

5 of 6 years with one of the worst offensive units in the country in terms of productivity. I'm asking if that's fine? If it's not, does Vigen just need more than 6 years to get an offense going?

We play on Saturdays without the benefit of 53 NFL caliber players.

Easiest way to say this is google 90's Nebraska football.

That's what Bohl is trying to duplicate here it takes time.

And if he fires Vigen tomorrow I don't care just let Craig Fucking Bohl run this team and stop as fans and media trying to dictate how this man runs his team.

So you think the offense is fine?

I think Craig Bohl is more qualified than you and I ( I'm not saying you're not, never met you) to make that decision and if fans and media keeping pushing we may lose him.

Is the offense fine then?

 

[brownngold]

We should probably take this discussion to the other thread, but to answer your question there are some issues with the offense, but I don't know if it's all play calling. I mean shit are they showing Randy Johnson highlight to the QBs take some heat off of it. On the other hand catch th damn ball even if it is 100 mph. Plus there is the 20 yard loopdaloop drop back fumble/sack/int combo. I don't know, shit everybody wanted TVW earlier in the year now we have him. I guess blame somebody.

I just don't want to be in front of the mob with flaming pitchforks running Bohl out of town.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

We should probably take this discussion to the other thread, but to answer your question there are some issues with the offense, but I don't know if it's all play calling. I mean shit are they showing Randy Johnson highlight to the QBs take some heat off of it. On the other hand catch th damn ball even if it is 100 mph. Plus there is the 20 yard loopdaloop drop back fumble/sack/int combo. I don't know, shit everybody wanted TVW earlier in the year now we have him. I guess blame somebody.

I just don't want to be in front of the mob with flaming pitchforks running Bohl out of town.

Bohl is great. Tough kids and really fits WYO. 100% agree that it's his decision and I oppose micromanagement.

My opinion is that Vigen is in over his head on running an O and developing QBs. Maybe he is stronger in other areas with managing a football team, but running an O doesn't seem to be his strength.

 

[brownngold]

We should probably take this discussion to the other thread, but to answer your question there are some issues with the offense, but I don't know if it's all play calling. I mean shit are they showing Randy Johnson highlight to the QBs take some heat off of it. On the other hand catch th damn ball even if it is 100 mph. Plus there is the 20 yard loopdaloop drop back fumble/sack/int combo. I don't know, shit everybody wanted TVW earlier in the year now we have him. I guess blame somebody.

I just don't want to be in front of the mob with flaming pitchforks running Bohl out of town.

Bohl is great. Tough kids and really fits WYO. 100% agree that it's his decision and I oppose micromanagement.

My opinion is that Vigen is in over his head on running an O and developing QBs. Maybe he is stronger in other areas with managing a football team, but running an O doesn't seem to be his strength.

But it seems your advocating micromanagement.
I think everyone here agrees there are offensive issues I'm just on Bohls side in finding the solution.
If he was to fire Vigen I'm ok with that.
If he keeps him I trust his experience as well.
Just hate seeing everyone all worked up over something we may not quite understand

 

[hickaggie]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

Scheme is fine. I don't think anyone is asking for air raid. Every Sunday there are lots of pro offenses with way more innovation and productivity.

5 of 6 years with one of the worst offensive units in the country in terms of productivity. I'm asking if that's fine? If it's not, does Vigen just need more than 6 years to get an offense going?

We play on Saturdays without the benefit of 53 NFL caliber players.

Easiest way to say this is google 90's Nebraska football.

That's what Bohl is trying to duplicate here it takes time.

And if he fires Vigen tomorrow I don't care just let Craig Fucking Bohl run this team and stop as fans and media trying to dictate how this man runs his team.

haven't watched the Cowboys as much this season until Saturday but I thought Vigen's calls were OK. I'm certainly an amateur but I've played a lot of defense and spent a lot of time breaking down offensive film when I coordinated it. I love Wyoming's defensive and offensive schemes and the smashmouth mentality.

I think a lot of the issues Saturday came down to a big unknown. The Aggies lost one of the best LBs in the Country in Woodward a few weeks back and were an fing disaster in the LB department until this week. After trying everyone on the roster they decided to try that Eric Munoz kid who is a walkon transfer finally teamed with Metzenheimer. The two clicked, he got the picks, and they both actually made plays outside.

If I was scouting Utah State I would have been excited as hell to pound the hell out of the defensive front after AFA and a horrible BYU team made them look so bad. It was just a case of scouting being unpredictable. No one thought the Aggies had a LB outside of Metzenheimer who could play at all. The aggies were beyond terrible the last few weeks and Munoz and Metz played a hell of a game.

The Wyoming QB just doesn't have it. He's a backup for a reason. Too bad. I frickin love your offensive scheme though. Can't judge the OC's use of it too much since I haven't watched a whole lot this year.

I would trade him for Sanford anyday though. Who goes in the shotgun with zone read on 4th and goal from the one foot line two weeks in a row? Especially when he's taken every run other run play out of the offense and told Jordan to basically hand it off and his center misses about 2 snaps a game. What the hell is a zone read good for if you only delay the handoff because everyone knows Love isn't keeping. Many of USUs offensive woes this year is him electing to stay with an offense he doesn't believe in and then dumbing it down to his level.

Great game Pokes. If by some miracle the Aggies can get Boise you guys had better destroy Howdy Doody for us.

 

[HR_Poke]

Wow really disappointing seeing so many fans accepting mediocrity as good enough just so we dont potentially have a bad stretch of football.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

1. It is clear that our passing efficiency needs improvement.
2. Injuries aren't helping, but no, it doesn't seem to be the reason for our issues.
3. To a certain extent, looks like WRs don't get much separation, QBs are inaccurate in the pocket
4. Recruiting seems fine to me, I'm inclined to say it's more about development.
5. MWC teams are not so good that we can't be better passing the ball.
6. Hell if I know, I've never coached a minute of football in my life, but here's my guess:

I personally have zero complaints about our run game and love that we have a line that can actually move people (if only they were better in pass pro)

When you look at our passing efficiency, it makes sense that we run so damn much.

Again, I'm no coach, but it seems like it's a brutal combination of the following that's to blame for our passing issues:
- Below-average protection (just look slow compared to opponent's DEs)
- Quick to scramble & inaccurate QBS (climbing the pocket is something I've never seen with these 2)
- WR's lacking separation (because of technique or physical ability, I don't know)

I would imagine that those 3 problems make life pretty hard for a playcaller, but I don't know enough to provide suggestions on how to counter them.

 

[bladerunnr]

Situational Football is the problem. The scheme is fine, it is just our play calling within, especially in crucial situations the pokes are very predictable. Bohl has built a good program, we have talent, depth and recruiting is going very well. As frustrating as the losses have been this season. The future is very bright and this shit will get fixed. Pokes will finish 8-4 this year and then win back to back MWC titles in 20, 21. Mark it down.

Dude, I want what your smoking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsqX8TQQyEY

 

[LanderPoke]

Situational Football is the problem. The scheme is fine, it is just our play calling within, especially in crucial situations the pokes are very predictable. Bohl has built a good program, we have talent, depth and recruiting is going very well. As frustrating as the losses have been this season. The future is very bright and this shit will get fixed. Pokes will finish 8-4 this year and then win back to back MWC titles in 20, 21. Mark it down.

I would love that. Hopefully Bohl can make the necessary changes so that comes to pass. It's honestly not too farfetched.

 

[Bryoming]

Mainly for the Vigen defenders and strictly talking about O...
1. Do you think the offense is adequate? If yes stop here.
2. If not, do you think it is something uncontrollable like injuries. If yes, stop here.
3. If not, do you think it's players?
4. If players, do you think bad recruiting or bad development?
5. If not players and not something uncontrollable, do you think MWC defenses are just that good?
6. If nothing above, what do you think is the problem on O?

I'm really curious where the Vigen fanboys are at on this?

1. No
2. Injuries happen every year. You need to be ready for that.
3. We have tough, talented players on the team, so no
4. I feel like we've recruited very well. Development is lacking, especially on offense.
5. MW is tough, but we do much worse against the same defenses than every other team in the league
6. The problem is predictability. If I can tell what we're going to run based on the formation and pre-snap movement, you can bet your ass the opposing defensive coordinator does too. We don't need a million formations. We don't need a million plays. Successful offenses have a condensed playbook that they run out of a handful of different formations.

When we DO run some misdirection it works amazingly well. If you've been pounding it up the A gap for 3 quarters, you run a counter in the 4th and that back is GONE. If you've been hitting a 5 yard out on medium down and distance an out and up in the 4th is going to KILL. It's not rocket science.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

I don't think anyone is necessarily defending Vigen, but instead are defending the head coaches offense. It's never going to be a spread out explosive (unless you count long runs) type of offense as long as Bohl is in town. And personally I think Bohl is doing better than many before him. The team has been in every game so far this year, they are still building this be patient I believe the results are coming.

I get so tired of hearing this. Asking for some creativity and running more than the same 4 blast and dive plays doesn't mean the fan base wants an Air Raid Dave Christensen style offense. There are plenty of examples of Pro-Style offensive schemes that blow ours out of the water in terms of creativity. We have really good tight ends. Rarely use them. We have below average WRs. Why we dont run more slants, outs, screens, etc. to help close that talent gap is beyond me. We have a depleted RB crew yet X is getting 30+ touches a game. There are tools at Vigens disposal that hes not using.

There is something to be said about armchair quarterbacking and this board (myself included, 100%) are totally guilty of. We have no idea the true talent level of these players but at this point I'd rather watch this team lose because he called gadget plays that we dont execute than to watch us lose because we run the same blast left we have ran 86 times up to that point. How anyone can defend the play calling in a game like the BSU game is beyond me. My friends fiance, who has no interest in sports, was guessing Vigens plays at about an 80% clip in the second half. Think about that. Think the % for someone, like an opposing DCoordinator who actually knows what they're looking at.

At the end of the day, we are leaving wins on the table with this pussified, vanilla offense. I'd rather see Vigen call a game to win instead of calling a game not to lose.