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Kiszla: Wyoming basketball is tough — and tough to watch

I am glad the Pokes had a good season but I would not drive 4 hours to watch them. Their style is really boring to watch. What drives me nuts, and I have stated this before here, is that they take each possession so deep in the shot clock that many times they force a bad shot. So to me it is just like a turn over because the shots they pass up compared to the shots they take make them ineffective. A good shot is a good shot no matter where in the shot clock it comes. Now don't get me wrong I believe there is a time and a place to take the air out, but not every possession. That is how BAD teams play to give themselves a fighting chance.

Now before you crucify me please understand that it is simply not my preference to play, or coach that way. But I am glad the Pokes were successful doing it. Just don't ask me to travel and buy a ticket to watch it.
 
Slow Hand said:
I am glad the Pokes had a good season but I would not drive 4 hours to watch them. Their style is really boring to watch. What drives me nuts, and I have stated this before here, is that they take each possession so deep in the shot clock that many times they force a bad shot. So to me it is just like a turn over because the shots they pass up compared to the shots they take make them ineffective. A good shot is a good shot no matter where in the shot clock it comes. Now don't get me wrong I believe there is a time and a place to take the air out, but not every possession. That is how BAD teams play to give themselves a fighting chance.

Now before you crucify me please understand that it is simply not my preference to play, or coach that way. But I am glad the Pokes were successful doing it. Just don't ask me to travel and buy a ticket to watch it.
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So are you not willing to watch cowboy football either? Coach Bohl let the play clock go close to zero every snap. At least the basketball team gets out in transition when they have numbers.
 
Slow Hand said:
I am glad the Pokes had a good season but I would not drive 4 hours to watch them. Their style is really boring to watch. What drives me nuts, and I have stated this before here, is that they take each possession so deep in the shot clock that many times they force a bad shot. So to me it is just like a turn over because the shots they pass up compared to the shots they take make them ineffective. A good shot is a good shot no matter where in the shot clock it comes. Now don't get me wrong I believe there is a time and a place to take the air out, but not every possession. That is how BAD teams play to give themselves a fighting chance.

Now before you crucify me please understand that it is simply not my preference to play, or coach that way. But I am glad the Pokes were successful doing it. Just don't ask me to travel and buy a ticket to watch it.
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That's not how I see this team. I am not saying that scenario doesn't happen (bad shot, late in the shot clock), but it isn't an overly frequent occurrence relative to other teams. Deep in the shot clock, yes, bad shot, no.

If you look, the Pokes were 10th in the nation (out of 351 teams) in 2PT% and 54th in Effective FG% (can't shoot threes). You don't end up in the top quartile for efficiency by taking an above average number of bad shots. Particularly for a team without a lot of one on one "tough shot makers". Adams would occasionally hit a crazy late shot and Jr. had a knack for those early in the year, but for the most part our high shooting percentage was a function of quality looks generated by offensive movement (3rd in the nation in Assists/FGM).

Did we look hopeless on offense against SDSU (all three times)? Yes, but that is a function of their great defense.

I am not totally disagreeing with your point. This team did occasionally pass up a good shot only to take a bad one, and they definitely had a tendency to try to make the extra pass to a fault which sometimes turned a good look into a turnover, but that isn't really unique to us. I just think there are many shades of gray between being an elite team (which we were not) and being a "BAD" team as you claim.

I have seen bad teams at Wyoming and one of them is very relevant to the discussion. The 09-10 Pokes, under Schroyer were undoubtedly bad (10-21), but they played fast (33rd in the country in tempo, fastest team at since at least 2002 which is as far back as KenPom's tempo stats go). That team didn't pass up many open looks but that didn't prevent them from taking more than their fair share of terrible shots as well (plus, they were awful defensively, but that's a separate topic).

You certainly don't have to be a fan of UW basketball. Totally your choice, lots of other teams out there, so I am not trying to sway you to our side or anything. Just hoping to provide some context and point out that there are many successful teams (Wisc, Northern Iowa, etc.) that play at a similar tempo. Our offensive system, such that it is, is not gimmicky or odd. It is a functionally very common system in college basketball that we execute at a relatively efficient rate considering our personnel limitations.
 
Yep. A good indicator of where we want to be is similar to what Northern Iowa did. Slowed down pace, priority on defense, but deeper bench and better 3 point %. It's effective, and especially so against teams that like to run and gun.
 
Slow Hand said:
I am glad the Pokes had a good season but I would not drive 4 hours to watch them. Their style is really boring to watch. What drives me nuts, and I have stated this before here, is that they take each possession so deep in the shot clock that many times they force a bad shot. So to me it is just like a turn over because the shots they pass up compared to the shots they take make them ineffective. A good shot is a good shot no matter where in the shot clock it comes. Now don't get me wrong I believe there is a time and a place to take the air out, but not every possession. That is how BAD teams play to give themselves a fighting chance.

Now before you crucify me please understand that it is simply not my preference to play, or coach that way. But I am glad the Pokes were successful doing it. Just don't ask me to travel and buy a ticket to watch it.
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Bad teams don't win MWC Tourney Championships.

Bad teams don't blow out CU by 20+.

Bad teams don't take it to Utah State one night, beat #25(AP) Boise State the next night, then beat #25(coaches) San Diego State the 3rd night.

Some bad teams make the Big Dance from shitty conferences and end up as 16 seeds. Other than that, bad teams do not make the Big Dance. Certainly not teams seeded 12th.
 
I honestly don't notice the pace relative to the game's excitement level. In other words, because an offense has more passes, screens, etc. before a shot, it doesn't make it less exciting to me. JMO. I also think that this type of system is better for us long-term. You can win games with this system even if your talent level is less than the other team (obviously there are limitations).

Right or wrong, I do think a 30 second shot clock is coming. It is kind of funny. In men's bball, there is a push to speed it up and get more plays. In football, some are pushing to slow it down and have fewer plays.

It seems that it is teams who lose to one particular system that push to have the rules changed and they use the veil of safety, fan experience, etc.
 
We may be slow, and our style boring, but it got us some very entertaining, rim rattling dunks. Enough to lead the nation... If you need 70-80+ points on the board at the end of the game, I think you are looking at things the wrong way.
 
I've been watching the NIT and that experimental 30 sec shot clock really hasn't been a factor, but then again they don't play Wyo style....lol, it'll be interesting to see what comes of it
 
cali2wyo, the comparison between a football team and a basketball team looses its impact. A football team is not passing up opportunities only to snap the ball late in the play clock. A very rarely did the pokes "get out in transition" The games I watched this year that added to my frustration level. The in fact DID not take advantage of their athleticism in the open court.

BeaverPoke, Beave maybe I wasn't clear. I am not implying that the Pokes were a bad team....because obviously they were not. I am saying that it is a strategy that every bad team in America will use to try and give them a fighting chance against better talent. I felt like we w ere good enough to play a different style.

NowherePoke, It isn't that I don't want to be a fan, it just drives me crazy to watch a team play this way. The early season dunks and SC top ten moments were a nice aspect of this team though! They had moments that showed what they were capable of.

So a recap of where I stand on this is I think we have the ability to play great defense and create turnovers in the full court. This would lead to transition dunks that are spectacular! I don't think we need to wait so late in the shot clock to get the SAME exact shot on offense. Waiting has nothing to do with shot selection or percentage. Play efficiently but quickly. After all anyone who tells you that defense wins championships is on crack. If you don't believe me when was the last time a team won anything without scoring? If you score you are on OFFENSE! :D
 
BeaverPoke said:
How many big oops and dunks were the result of getting out in transition? Quite a few I would imagine.
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I agree. I think we actually got in transition a decent amount. Obviously, some games more than others. And also, I can't remember many times we passed up good shots to end up taking a bad shot. We ussually passed up a good shot to wind up with a better shot.
 
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