Jay Sawvel named head coach

[laxwyo]

Comparing since 2000 is irrelevant. Soon the comparison prior to 2026 (or something) will be irrelevant when the split happens.

Under Bohl, the conference has weakened substantially. fsu, bsu, and suds are hardly Goliath. One small incremental step forward puts us very competitive within the mwc. Nobody is talking about the p5.

You've already acknowledged unlv as similar in regards to whatever external factors you're alluding to (still no idea how you are quantifying any of that) yet they achieved a ccg shortly after new personnel. How'd that happen? If unlv sustains success is it because they all of a sudden gained substantial advantage in the "external factor" category?

Let's end it. I don't agree that in a dog s h I t conference, WYO can't compete for championships. It is my opinion that rather than focus on an incremental step forward the process was well planned and orchestrated to get the younger Bohl a promotion. Cronyism at its finest.

You are right.... The house of cards that is FBS football is probably going to split and we will be left with programs that we match better with.

As far as the example of UNLV.... If there is a sleeping giant in the MWC...UNLV might be it. They are in an attractive destination city that is awash with $$. I bet UNLV folks are trying very hard to sustain it. Will they make the jump and displace one is the upper echelon MWC programs? Possibly...

Wyoming has not been the best, or even the "best of the rest" in conference since Roach and Tiller. We weren't the best of the non TCU, BYU, Utah group of the "tougher" MWC.... Based on that we shouldn't expect to be the best of the group that got left. Now we definitely could have done better... But that never happened.

Your expectation that the greatly weakened conference should have yielded a championship or two represents a fundamental ignorance that Wyoming exists within the structure that you say has weakened competitively. Is Wyoming a part of that structure/conference or not? Your argument would have some merit if we were the obvious "next best" team behind TCU, Utah, and BYU.... But we weren't.

Ultimately I seem to offend you by disagreeing with you that "the conference sucks" and "Burman sucks". I find your simplistic explanations of complex systems to be inadequate in describing the "why" of Wyoming sports. Burman, Bohl, and whomever else is in charge have there issues... We should hold them accountable for their failings and I'm thankful for your voice in that regard even as I look askance at your reasoning.

I think ragtime has hit his head recently. He’s been on a terrible take tear

 

[bullbugle307]

307, you keep going back to this idea that if the wheels fall off it doesn’t prove the process was flawed. But if we win a bunch then it does prove it was a good hire. Sounds like an ADs dream, he can literally do no wrong as long a butts are in seats in that scenario.

Did I misunderstand you, or do you really think an 0-12 team next year wouldn’t be an abject failure by the AD. We’re all assuming this won’t happen, but at what point would you say it was a failure. 2 wins? 3?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

You are right.... The house of cards that is FBS football is probably going to split and we will be left with programs that we match better with.

As far as the example of UNLV.... If there is a sleeping giant in the MWC...UNLV might be it. They are in an attractive destination city that is awash with $$. I bet UNLV folks are trying very hard to sustain it. Will they make the jump and displace one is the upper echelon MWC programs? Possibly...

Wyoming has not been the best, or even the "best of the rest" in conference since Roach and Tiller. We weren't the best of the non TCU, BYU, Utah group of the "tougher" MWC.... Based on that we shouldn't expect to be the best of the group that got left. Now we definitely could have done better... But that never happened.

Your expectation that the greatly weakened conference should have yielded a championship or two represents a fundamental ignorance that Wyoming exists within the structure that you say has weakened competitively. Is Wyoming a part of that structure/conference or not? Your argument would have some merit if we were the obvious "next best" team behind TCU, Utah, and BYU.... But we weren't.

Ultimately I seem to offend you by disagreeing with you that "the conference sucks" and "Burman sucks". I find your simplistic explanations of complex systems to be inadequate in describing the "why" of Wyoming sports. Burman, Bohl, and whomever else is in charge have there issues... We should hold them accountable for their failings and I'm thankful for your voice in that regard even as I look askance at your reasoning.

I think ragtime has hit his head recently. He’s been on a terrible take tear

We'll see next year.

 

[307bball]

307, you keep going back to this idea that if the wheels fall off it doesn’t prove the process was flawed. But if we win a bunch then it does prove it was a good hire. Sounds like an ADs dream, he can literally do no wrong as long a butts are in seats in that scenario.

Did I misunderstand you, or do you really think an 0-12 team next year wouldn’t be an abject failure by the AD. We’re all assuming this won’t happen, but at what point would you say it was a failure. 2 wins? 3?

12-0 or 0-12 probably doesn't say as much about the process as it says about Sawvell's coaching ability.

0-12 would definitely be a failure. Bohl and Burman have shown that there is no reason to be perennial MWC doormats


The running disagreement that ragtime and I have had is over the topic of what is actually possible. If I'm wrong.... At some point a coach will come in and in the face of all the changes that have happened that have left Wyoming behind (IMO), Wyoming Will have the success that we all want to see. That will mean that it was always about the man at the helm or the AD. If that is your belief... We should hire and fire as quickly possible to get to that individual.

One thing that the changes have made made possible is the random talent peak surrounded by mediocre seasons... In that case... The portal and relaxed transfer environment could actually increase the chance at a random conference title while making sustained year over year success less likely.

 

[bullbugle307]

I guess in my mind, I have nothing against the process per se right now. I think it made sense in a lot of ways. I also recognize I’m an armchair QB, it’s not my specialty in life to know these things. I share some of ragtimes concerns also. I’ve seen enough nepotism in my life to at least think It’s fair to scrutinize. But if we’re terrible next year, in my mind worse than what we would have been with Bohl, then I would blame the process because it resulted in Sawvel. I can’t separate the two.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[307bball]

I guess in my mind, I have nothing against the process per se right now. I think it made sense in a lot of ways. I also recognize I’m an armchair QB, it’s not my specialty in life to know these things. I share some of ragtimes concerns also. I’ve seen enough nepotism in my life to at least think It’s fair to scrutinize. But if we’re terrible next year, in my mind worse than what we would have been with Bohl, then I would blame the process because it resulted in Sawvel. I can’t separate the two.

Thanks for clarifying.

It does make a certain sense to look at it that way. It does beg the question though, If Sawvell and Aaron Bohl succeed, does that convince all of us that nepotism had nothing to do with the "process"?

I just don't see the connection between Sawvell's ability as a coach and the process that was was followed to elevate him. In hindsight, if he turns out to be a bad HC, Burman will pay a price no matter the process... That would be the same if Burman had gone with an outside hire... Right?

 

[bullbugle307]

If our defense doesn’t regress, then hiring Bohl as DC was a great decision. And to be fair, I’m not super concerned. I think he’ll do fine.

But if the team really regresses, worse than what I thought Bohl Sr. would have done, and worse than what an external hire we could have landed would have done, then I think it’s totally fair to blame the process. Obviously, we’ll only get to know the result of one of those courses of action and the rest will be up to speculation. Looking at next years schedule, I don’t think Bohl himself would win nine, or maybe even eight games, I think he’d be in the realm of 7ish, so anything less than 4 will definitely be grounds for some hot seats. I think that’s fair. Pretty low bar really, because I do agree with you that we have a lot of external challenges no coach can control.

 

[307bball]

But if the team really regresses, worse than what I thought Bohl Sr. would have done, and worse than what an external hire we could have landed would have done, then I think it’s totally fair to blame the process. Obviously, we’ll only get to know the result of one of those courses of action and the rest will be up to speculation....

The bolded statement is the fly in the ointment for me. That statement is the truth that makes the stuff that Ragtime has been putting forth difficult to swallow. It's not that there isn't something to observe in his opinions.... It's the simplistic package it's presented in that I'm objecting to.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

But if the team really regresses, worse than what I thought Bohl Sr. would have done, and worse than what an external hire we could have landed would have done, then I think it’s totally fair to blame the process. Obviously, we’ll only get to know the result of one of those courses of action and the rest will be up to speculation....

The bolded statement is the fly in the ointment for me. That statement is the truth that makes the stuff that Ragtime has been putting forth difficult to swallow. It's not that there isn't something to observe in his opinions.... It's the simplistic package it's presented in that I'm objecting to.

Let me ask you this, if and I'm asking strictly IF, the hiring process centered on promoting the younger Bohl rather and the program health secondary, do you think that is ok? Just that. Not that you believe it; just if that were true. AGAIN IF.

My other beef with the "external factors" isn't that they likely exist in some capacity, it's that they are not quantifiable. As such, they can be used as a crutch. Anything wrong or any hinderance to advancement can be blamed on "external factors" rather than people whose job it is to advance the program. Nobody seems to be able to cite exactly what the external factors are or what exact level is needed to improve. It honestly sounds like something used for 17 years to shake down taxpayers.

When independent consultants identify a culture of mediocrity and it is swept under the rug due the "external factors", I think it is bs. The independent consultants are professionals in the area and had access to more information than we do. To act like it doesn't exist or that there is not some merit to their conclusion is ignorant.

 

[307bball]

Let me ask you this, if and I'm asking strictly IF, the hiring process centered on promoting the younger Bohl rather and the program health secondary, do you think that is ok? Just that. Not that you believe it; just if that were true. AGAIN IF.

I would say that is not ok... But not because I'm morally opposed to somebody giving their son a leg up that others might not have.... I'm opposed to it on the principle that, over time, consistently using a nepotistic strategy will lead to less optimal outcomes.

Naked nepotism will always fall short. To the extent that goes on, systems tend to perform less well than they would otherwise. Unfortunately, the success or failure of any individual decision probably doesn't reveal the extent that nepotism has occurred. A further problem is that it's hard to tell if you are giving somebody an opportunity or you are just acting in a nepotistic fashion. Is the only difference the outcome? Hiring a coach of an FBS program is a complex task wherein relationships matter soooo much. It's problematic at best.

My other beef with the "external factors" isn't that they likely exist in some capacity, it's that they are not quantifiable. As such, they can be used as a crutch. Anything wrong or any hinderance to advancement can be blamed on "external factors" rather than people whose job it is to advance the program. Nobody seems to be able to cite exactly what the external factors are or what exact level is needed to improve. It honestly sounds like something used for 17 years to shake down taxpayers.

When independent consultants identify a culture of mediocrity and it is swept under the rug due the "external factors", I think it is bs. The independent consultants are professionals in the area and had access to more information than we do. To act like it doesn't exist or that there is not some merit to their conclusion is ignorant.

It's very hard to quantify any of this...I would also include a "culture of mediocrity" in the list of factors that a coach or AD probably can't change.... Maybe they could change it over a care but definitely doesn't turn around overnight.

Even though we can't quantify a lot of it... We have a sense of the magnitude and where Wyoming exists in the pecking order. The external factors that Wyoming is up against are not absent from the rest the MWC.... But that does not mean the magnitude of the headwind that each program faces is equal.

If we go back in time to 1993 or so and consider Wyo and BYU.... Was it a forgone conclusion that they would end up where they are and we would be here? It turns out they made some good strategic decisions but I think mostly it's an accident of environment that they have had the outcomes they have had relative to similar programs. I don't lay a ton of blame on any of the leaders in Laramie for that.... Even though I'm sure they weren't perfect. The way the college athletic world changed over the next 30 years did us no favors.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Bohl being promoted vs Oscar?

Yeah. Not buying it.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Ok, being serious on this one. Does anyone know if Oscar was considered for HC or DC? If not, why? If so, how in the heck was A Bohl selected above him? His resume should have rivaled Sawvell's for the HC job... he is associate hc and freshman hc already. Unless he didn't want either job, I can't see how he'd possibly be passed up for both positions.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Boise upping its NIL game. Crazy.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39241601/ex-usc-qb-malachi-nelson-no-1-recruit-2023-visit-boise-state

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Boise upping its NIL game. Crazy.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39241601/ex-usc-qb-malachi-nelson-no-1-recruit-2023-visit-boise-state

While Nelson got interest from bigger programs in the portal, the potential to play immediately and a strong roster loomed large in him choosing to first visit Boise State. This visit could end up as an anecdote that supports the trend of players in the NIL era seeking playing time over big brands,

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Hey damriver, do you want to objectively debate A Bohl's resume vs Oscars?

 

[DamThatRiver22]

Hey damriver, do you want to objectively debate A Bohl's resume vs Oscars?

Not particularly.

Giles certainly has a better resumè and is probably better prepared for such a role, but I really don't think that Bohl is a bad choice either.

DC is the next logical progression in AB's career. If we get to keep them both this way, I fail to see the problem. I'd rather that than have AB bounce for a DC position elsewhere; he's a good coach whose unit has been one of our strengths over the years.

Maybe AB succeeds and everyone's better off for it. Maybe he falls on his face and Giles gets the nod anyway next year. Time will tell.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Hey damriver, do you want to objectively debate A Bohl's resume vs Oscars?

Not particularly.

Giles certainly has a better resumè and is probably better prepared for such a role, but I really don't think that Bohl is a bad choice either.

DC is the next logical progression in AB's career. If we get to keep them both this way, I fail to see the problem. I'd rather that than have AB bounce for a DC position elsewhere; he's a good coach whose unit has been one of our strengths over the years.

Maybe AB succeeds and everyone's better off for it. Maybe he falls on his face and Giles gets the nod anyway next year. Time will tell.

I think it lends evidence (for the truly unbiased) for the notion that this was a much about promoting Bohl and his career than program success.

Oscar should have rivaled Sawvell and I'll bet if Oscar was currently DC, it would have been him promoted to free up the DC spot. That is obviously speculation but hardly out of the realm of possibility.

You act like only your opinion is objective. There are more than a few clues here that point to nepotism while overlooking more qualified candidates. Just because you're ok going along with that stuff doesn't make you or them right. It also doesn't make everyone who opposes seemingly blatant nepotism non-objective whiners. In my opinion this is really bad optics for the program and now we'll see how it turns out.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Boise upping its NIL game. Crazy.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/39241601/ex-usc-qb-malachi-nelson-no-1-recruit-2023-visit-boise-state

While Nelson got interest from bigger programs in the portal, the potential to play immediately and a strong roster loomed large in him choosing to first visit Boise State. This visit could end up as an anecdote that supports the trend of players in the NIL era seeking playing time over big brands,

Sure, maybe he could get a bit more somewhere else but rumors are a half million NIL offer at Boise. Do you really believe Wyoming is in that sphere?

 

[LanderPoke]

Sure, maybe he could get a bit more somewhere else but rumors are a half million NIL offer at Boise. Do you really believe Wyoming is in that sphere?

Maybe they're robbing Peter to pay Paul

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Sure, maybe he could get a bit more somewhere else but rumors are a half million NIL offer at Boise. Do you really believe Wyoming is in that sphere?

Maybe they're robbing Peter to pay Paul

From all indications, Jeanty’s deal is also worth half a million.