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It was probably best that few people saw this game.

P

PotatoCreekPete

Well-known member
You are going to win very few games when your point guard is 0-4 from the field and ends up contributing 0 points! This unfortunately has happened too many times this season, we have to have more than 0 points (0-4 from the field), 1 rebound, 1 assist and 2 turnovers from your floor general. It makes it a lot harder to score from the two guard position if your point is no threat. Defenses can cheat and double team your two guard if they know that the point isn't going to hurt you. I am not saying that the point has to score a lot, but if the defenses play soft on him he has to be able to make them pay for that and to help make the defenses be more honest.

Josh Adams was obviously off with 2-8 shooting but at least he rebounded! Josh Adams was the leading rebounder for the team at 5 rebounds, unbelievable as Derek Cooke, Jr. had only 3 rebounds the whole game! Again we lost the rebounding war by 14 rebounds (41 to 27). You are not going to win many games losing the rebounding issue that badly, and this has been a common occurrence with this Wyoming team this year even with Nance in the line-up. I don't care what anyone says, but Wyoming can not expect to be a championship team when you make very little effort (coaches decision) to go for offensive rebounds and you get beaten badly on the defensive end for rebounds. Wyoming HAS to do much better in this area.

I kind of laugh when people say that Haldorson is a good shot, as he was 0-5 tonight from the field and provided no offensive help and only got 2 rebounds, which is far from the only time this has happened this season.

In conclusion, I am sure that Coach Shyatt and the players did not want this to happen, but this team was not prepared to play this game. There are glaring deficiencies on this team and again I am sure that Coach Shyatt is aware of them, but they have to be addressed IMMEDIATELY. Maybe it was a good thing that few people got to see this game.
 
Aaron said:
Ok but what was wrong with the other thread about this?
Click to expand...

I don't understand your question. I wasn't trying to make a statement or point about the other thread, it was just more general about the game. I was just making some different points, specific points where I feel the team needs to improve.
 
PotatoCreekPete said:
You are going to win very few games when your point guard is 0-4 from the field and ends up contributing 0 points! This unfortunately has happened too many times this season, we have to have more than 0 points (0-4 from the field), 1 rebound, 1 assist and 2 turnovers from your floor general. It makes it a lot harder to score from the two guard position if your point is no threat. Defenses can cheat and double team your two guard if they know that the point isn't going to hurt you. I am not saying that the point has to score a lot, but if the defenses play soft on him he has to be able to make them pay for that and to help make the defenses be more honest.

Josh Adams was obviously off with 2-8 shooting but at least he rebounded! Josh Adams was the leading rebounder for the team at 5 rebounds, unbelievable as Derek Cooke, Jr. had only 3 rebounds the whole game! Again we lost the rebounding war by 14 rebounds (41 to 27). You are not going to win many games losing the rebounding issue that badly, and this has been a common occurrence with this Wyoming team this year even with Nance in the line-up. I don't care what anyone says, but Wyoming can not expect to be a championship team when you make very little effort (coaches decision) to go for offensive rebounds and you get beaten badly on the defensive end for rebounds. Wyoming HAS to do much better in this area.

I kind of laugh when people say that Haldorson is a good shot, as he was 0-5 tonight from the field and provided no offensive help and only got 2 rebounds, which is far from the only time this has happened this season.

In conclusion, I am sure that Coach Shyatt and the players did not want this to happen, but this team was not prepared to play this game. There are glaring deficiencies on this team and again I am sure that Coach Shyatt is aware of them, but they have to be addressed IMMEDIATELY. Maybe it was a good thing that few people got to see this game.
Click to expand...

Tonight was awful, but it is not a reflection of how Larry Shyatt has improved this program, and where it is heading.

For every game like this we have, also look at the games against SDSU this year, CU last season, and UNLV a couple seasons ago, along with the improved MWC record this season, before coming with some permanent judgments.

We are not where we want to be, but we are better now than we were when Shyatt showed up.
And in another 3 years we should have 3 more post-seasons under our belts, but they should be an NIT and 2 Big Dances, or 2 NITs and 1 Big Dance.

We are getting there, it's a long process, we don't have Larry Brown who has an NBA ring, or Calipari who gets the Top 20 players every season on their way to the NBA.
 
You guys all need to get rebounds out of your system, Quit beating a dead horse. We aren't an offensive rebounding team and as long as Shyatt is here we will never be one so forget about it please. We will ALWAYS get out rebounded on the offensive side period end of discussion.

The team played like shit, blame it on the weather, blame it on the trip, blame it on the depth and blame a lot of bullshit calls. It's very hard to play with all of that on top of your shoulders and I highly doubt many people on these forums would be able to overcome it either.

We lost and it's done and over with, We all wanted a better performance but we knew it was a long shot w/o Nance. I wish our seniors would have gone out on a better note but at least it's over.
 
BeaverPoke said:
PotatoCreekPete said:
You are going to win very few games when your point guard is 0-4 from the field and ends up contributing 0 points! This unfortunately has happened too many times this season, we have to have more than 0 points (0-4 from the field), 1 rebound, 1 assist and 2 turnovers from your floor general. It makes it a lot harder to score from the two guard position if your point is no threat. Defenses can cheat and double team your two guard if they know that the point isn't going to hurt you. I am not saying that the point has to score a lot, but if the defenses play soft on him he has to be able to make them pay for that and to help make the defenses be more honest.

Josh Adams was obviously off with 2-8 shooting but at least he rebounded! Josh Adams was the leading rebounder for the team at 5 rebounds, unbelievable as Derek Cooke, Jr. had only 3 rebounds the whole game! Again we lost the rebounding war by 14 rebounds (41 to 27). You are not going to win many games losing the rebounding issue that badly, and this has been a common occurrence with this Wyoming team this year even with Nance in the line-up. I don't care what anyone says, but Wyoming can not expect to be a championship team when you make very little effort (coaches decision) to go for offensive rebounds and you get beaten badly on the defensive end for rebounds. Wyoming HAS to do much better in this area.

I kind of laugh when people say that Haldorson is a good shot, as he was 0-5 tonight from the field and provided no offensive help and only got 2 rebounds, which is far from the only time this has happened this season.

In conclusion, I am sure that Coach Shyatt and the players did not want this to happen, but this team was not prepared to play this game. There are glaring deficiencies on this team and again I am sure that Coach Shyatt is aware of them, but they have to be addressed IMMEDIATELY. Maybe it was a good thing that few people got to see this game.
Click to expand...

Tonight was awful, but it is not a reflection of how Larry Shyatt has improved this program, and where it is heading.

For every game like this we have, also look at the games against SDSU this year, CU last season, and UNLV a couple seasons ago, along with the improved MWC record this season, before coming with some permanent judgments.

We are not where we want to be, but we are better now than we were when Shyatt showed up.
And in another 3 years we should have 3 more post-seasons under our belts, but they should be an NIT and 2 Big Dances, or 2 NITs and 1 Big Dance.

We are getting there, it's a long process, we don't have Larry Brown who has an NBA ring, or Calipari who gets the Top 20 players every season on their way to the NBA.
Click to expand...

I agree with you that the program is much better than it was under the previous staff. However, we are far from having all of the components in place right now to make a run at the NCAA's even with Nance coming back. We desperately need depth and who knows how Nance will be next season. As it is he wouldn't be back until close to the 2nd semester as I understand it now, so someone has to play in the middle at the start of next season. Is that Cooke? We already know that that isn't going to get us many wins. Is it going to be Barnes? Maybe, but he is a true freshman and it is scary to count on a true freshman to take you to a winning level. This is why I really think that we need a JC big to step in an take some of the pressure off Nance to come back ASAP. Some on the other board were even suggesting that Nance redshirt next year which could make next season look like the end of this season unless we have significantly improved our post play. If Nance does redshirt and if we just have the present crew and with just the addition of Barnes and the other freshman coming off the redshirt year, we would be lucky to get back to the CBI. I would hate to see Nance come back too early and tear up his knee again. Having an impact JC big come in would take some pressure off him.
 
Wyo2dal said:
You guys all need to get rebounds out of your system, Quit beating a dead horse. We aren't an offensive rebounding team and as long as Shyatt is here we will never be one so forget about it please. We will ALWAYS get out rebounded on the offensive side period end of discussion.

The team played like shit, blame it on the weather, blame it on the trip, blame it on the depth and blame a lot of bullshit calls. It's very hard to play with all of that on top of your shoulders and I highly doubt many people on these forums would be able to overcome it either.

We lost and it's done and over with, We all wanted a better performance but we knew it was a long shot w/o Nance. I wish our seniors would have gone out on a better note but at least it's over.
Click to expand...

I am not arguing with you, I am just saying that we can't get beat by 14 rebounds night after night and expect to be successful, that makes way too many 2nd chances for the other team.
 
PotatoCreekPete said:
Wyo2dal said:
You guys all need to get rebounds out of your system, Quit beating a dead horse. We aren't an offensive rebounding team and as long as Shyatt is here we will never be one so forget about it please. We will ALWAYS get out rebounded on the offensive side period end of discussion.

The team played like shit, blame it on the weather, blame it on the trip, blame it on the depth and blame a lot of bullshit calls. It's very hard to play with all of that on top of your shoulders and I highly doubt many people on these forums would be able to overcome it either.

We lost and it's done and over with, We all wanted a better performance but we knew it was a long shot w/o Nance. I wish our seniors would have gone out on a better note but at least it's over.
Click to expand...

I am not arguing with you, I am just saying that we can't get beat by 14 rebounds night after night and expect to be successful, that makes way too many 2nd chances for the other team.
Click to expand...

We can and we have, When we top the MWC in shooting percentage we win. You can take from this what you want but add Nance back we finish with that 3rd place seed and if we go to the CBI/NIT/NCAA it turns out different no matter how you look at it.

I think this game was just to get more March playing experience. Sure they would like to have won but let's be honest outside of a very slime winning chance did anyone think we were going to make noise in the CBI w/o Nance?

I didn't but I really thought we would be second or third round material. It was pretty nerve racking to see it end like that.
 
Wyo2dal said:
PotatoCreekPete said:
Wyo2dal said:
You guys all need to get rebounds out of your system, Quit beating a dead horse. We aren't an offensive rebounding team and as long as Shyatt is here we will never be one so forget about it please. We will ALWAYS get out rebounded on the offensive side period end of discussion.

The team played like shit, blame it on the weather, blame it on the trip, blame it on the depth and blame a lot of bullshit calls. It's very hard to play with all of that on top of your shoulders and I highly doubt many people on these forums would be able to overcome it either.

We lost and it's done and over with, We all wanted a better performance but we knew it was a long shot w/o Nance. I wish our seniors would have gone out on a better note but at least it's over.
Click to expand...

I am not arguing with you, I am just saying that we can't get beat by 14 rebounds night after night and expect to be successful, that makes way too many 2nd chances for the other team.
Click to expand...

We can and we have, When we top the MWC in shooting percentage we win. You can take from this what you want but add Nance back we finish with that 3rd place seed and if we go to the CBI/NIT/NCAA it turns out different no matter how you look at it.

I think this game was just to get more March playing experience. Sure they would like to have won but let's be honest outside of a very slime winning chance did anyone think we were going to make noise in the CBI w/o Nance?

I didn't but I really thought we would be second or third round material. It was pretty nerve racking to see it end like that.
Click to expand...

I went back and looked at the stats. When we out rebounded the teams in the non-conference portion of the season we won, and when we lost the rebounding wars big time we lost. You just can't count on shooting 20 points higher night after night to make up for getting your backside handed to you on rebounding. Rebounding is something that should be more ingrained and even when you have a bad shooting night (every team has them) your defense and rebounding shouldn't suffer. Rebounding is something that is critical to winning and it is something that good teams do well. It also carried over into the conference portion of the season. We could usually afford to lose the rebounding war by 2 or 3 or even as many as 7 and still have a chance to win, but when they beat us by over 10 we don't win with of course the one exception against SDSU. Rebounding isn't rocket science, it is hardwork, determination and positioning yourself well and strength.

Here are a few games where the rebounding differences were interesting:

Wyo vs CU - Wyoming lost the rebounding war by 11 and lost even though UW shot slightly better.

Wyo vs Ohio St. - Wyoming lost the rebounding war by 13 and lost.

Wyo vs New Mexico - Wyoming lost the rebounding war by 19 and lost even though we shot slightly better.

Wyo vs CSU - Wyoming lost the rebounding war by 16 and lost.

Wyo vs Boise St. - Wyoming lost the rebounding war by 13 and lost.

Wyo vs Utah St. - Wyoming lost the rebounding war by 20 and lost.

Wyo vs Texas A&M - Wyoming lost the rebounding war by 14 and lost.

The one real exception was Wyo vs SDSU - Wyoming lost the rebounding war by 13 but won because we shot 20 points higher than SDSU.

You just can't count on shooting 20 points higher night after night to make up for losing the rebounding war so badly.
 
excuses, excuses, they talked about the blizzard getting them outta Laramie, getting to Houston late then bussing up to College Station, unacceptable in my eyes, they are young and I understand it was a long gruelling season, but act like you wanted to be there. I really have an issue with Riley Grabau ever since Larry went down, he seemed out of it and just running around not wanting to try. They really didn't have any heart and it didn't look like anyone wanted to be there. Sobey and Granberry tried but i guess the season caught up to them. I don't understand why Larry didn't play Jack Bentz more than he did??? I guess when you're done your done. I did like what Larry Nance Jr tweeted last night, My senior year, whenever that is, we will NOT be in the CBI!!! Pathetic showing last night nothing to get excited about at all. Thanks for a good year Pokes but I'll be wanting a bit more next year, esp outta Washington and Halderson if he stays. Tyser made good on the limited time he saw, good for him and a Bison alumi as well
 
Pretty much agree with everything said in the above comments. Will point out though that we did do pretty well when we had a point guard, who was damn good, who other teams weren't overly concerned about guarding because of his scoring. Anyone remember a point guard named Sean Dent?

I notice on the other board that some are telling Burman not to answer in the future if the CBI calls. Have to admit I have never been in favor in playing in anything lower than the NIT (think that should be one of the standards the athletic department sets) but I would like to add to that title on the other board "and Burman don't be calling the CBI either". In his last radio "coach's show" Shyatt said that we were assured of a post season tournament berth (maybe not his exact wording) which to me pretty much indicated that TB had already talked to the CBI.
 
I think the rebounding issue is similar to the time of possession in football.

You do not NEED to win the time of possession battle in football if you score quickly and make stops on defense.
The Eagles, the Broncos, and the Ducks are proof to that. BUT...if your offense becomes predictable and your defense can't make stops, you are never going to win games w/out winning TOP. The Wyo Cowboys proved that.

You do not NEED to win the rebounding battle in hoops if you make your shots, and play good defense. Billy D and Larry Shyatt have proved that for years. BUT...if can not hit your shots and your defense is not holding up, you will never win games w/out at least holding your own in the rebounding battle. Wyo @ A&M proved that.
 
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