It ain't the coaches, fellas

[Bosler]

Oh, we can get talent. All it takes is money. This isn't 1989. We need to get NIL/revenue sharing to pay players. Maybe we need new coaches -- 130 teams are always looking for better coaches, so the competition is stiff there too -- but we absolutely need better talent. And that's doable.

Maybe we can't raise the money, maybe we don't want to, but that's a whole different issue.

(ETA: And, Indiana? Cignetti looks like a good coach. His QB is also making $2mm a year.)

 

[ragtimejoe1]

(ETA: And, Indiana? Cignetti looks like a good coach. His QB is also making $2mm a year.)

How does Indiana rank in the b1g for nil expenditures. Did they have a huge jump relative to peers the last 2 years as well?

Real question; not snarky. I don't know the answer. If they went bottom of b1g to top 3 in nil spending, then i agree that explains a lot.

 

[Bosler]

How does Indiana rank in the b1g for nil expenditures. Did they have a huge jump relative to peers the last 2 years as well?

Sure, that's a legit question. A quick search landed me here: https://frontofficesports.com/how-indiana-quietly-became-a-big-spender-in-football/

I didn't go any farther. Good data on this stuff is hard to find.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Sure, that's a legit question. A quick search landed me here: https://frontofficesports.com/how-indiana-quietly-became-a-big-spender-in-football/

I didn't go any farther. Good data on this stuff is hard to find.

I've read that one and a few others on Indiana. It does lack b1g nil rankings which is hard to pin down. Id expect oregon, osu, mi, and psu to be clearly in the top and northwestern clearly at the bottom. I would guess Indiana became competitive with the upper middle of the conference. I think there's a few key items in the article you posted:

1) importance of top down buy-in at a university for a competitive football team. We severely lack in this area, imo. This was also a characteristic of bsu's rise.

2) athletic dept budget solidly in the upper middle of peers. It mentioned the first time their budget was above the median.

3) competitive with peers for nil, but it looks to me like they are probably upper 3rd for the qb so they are also strategic.

4) great coaching staff. They also spent on assistant salaries which helped. Something we need to look at.

It looks like you need competitive (not top) budgets and the right people. Both are attainable at WYO, but back to #1...

 

[307bball]

I feel like lack of talent is being used as a way to deflect blame from coaches. It's entirely possible to not have top talent and not have a good coach at the same time. The current Wyoming squad is not loaded with talent... and it's not well coached. Is this controversial?

Wyoming has definitely had higher talent in relation to it's conference peers in the past and it can again if we have the right coach....It's a firable offense to not have a talented team as a head coach...it's one of the ways that you lose your job. Again...you might not suck if you have a good coach but nobody is winning a chip without talent no matter how good of a coach you have.

 

[307bball]

Just to illustrate the connectedness between coaching and talent level, During Nick Saban's tenure at Alabama, 44 players were 1st round selections in the NFL draft...during that time, they lost 29 times....they had more 1str round players than losses!!! Nutty.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Just to illustrate the connectedness between coaching and talent level, During Nick Saban's tenure at Alabama, 44 players were 1st round selections in the NFL draft...during that time, they lost 29 times....they had more 1str round players than losses!!! Nutty.

Take the current WYO squad and keep everything equal except coaching staff. Then, theoretically replace each coaching staff member with the absolutely best option (without regard to realism), what would you think the ceiling for this WYO team is?

Again, all that changes are practices, preparation, xs and os, etc. No theoretical more donors, better recruits, etc. Only changing coaching and direct team management of this team.

 

[307bball]

Take the current WYO squad and keep everything equal except coaching staff. Then, theoretically replace each coaching staff member with the absolutely best option (without regard to realism), what would you think the ceiling for this WYO team is?

Again, all that changes are practices, preparation, xs and os, etc. No theoretical more donors, better recruits, etc. Only changing coaching and direct team management of this team.

Hmmm

• below avg QB play (Maybe way below)
• O-line that really can't pass protect
• terrible kicker (evidently)
• Replacement level or maybe slightly above D-line
• Suspect defensive back end

I would say a really good coach gets that team to top out at somewhere between 3rd and 5th place in the conference standings...in general.

Great coaches, just like great players are not perfect. When the great coach has great players, the coaching mistakes are often masked by individual players making great plays and vise versa. The real kick in the pills is what Wyoming has been for a very long time, bad to average coaching with medicre talent. In that case every mistake kills you. You can see it in Bohl's style...he was suuuper conservative and, generally, his team played more mistake free than the opponent. It kept games close against good teams and was pretty much enough to beat bad teams...also, It's not a fluke that the one year Wyoming played for a championship had a lot more talent than the other years.

 

[307bball]

Take the current WYO squad and keep everything equal except coaching staff. Then, theoretically replace each coaching staff member with the absolutely best option (without regard to realism), what would you think the ceiling for this WYO team is?

Again, all that changes are practices, preparation, xs and os, etc. No theoretical more donors, better recruits, etc. Only changing coaching and direct team management of this team.

To add to my previous response...I think AFA is also a good example of this. Troy Calhoun is a very competent football coach. He has rarely had the most talented team but he has a system and a way of preparing his guys that yeilds results that you wouldn't predict based completely on talent. I remember in Bohl's first year when Wyoming actually beat AFA...they did it in a way that was, up until that point, uncommon for Wyoming. They won the turnover battle, had less penalties, and were very careful to let the game come to them. They beat AFA at thier own game...and won despite having less first downs and less yardage on the day. Now...neither of those teams were all that talented but it was a masterclass in how to not lose a football game.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Hmmm

• below avg QB play (Maybe way below)
• O-line that really can't pass protect
• terrible kicker (evidently)
• Replacement level or maybe slightly above D-line
• Suspect defensive back end

I would say a really good coach gets that team to top out at somewhere between 3rd and 5th place in the conference standings...in general.

Great coaches, just like great players are not perfect. When the great coach has great players, the coaching mistakes are often masked by individual players making great plays and vise versa. The real kick in the pills is what Wyoming has been for a very long time, bad to average coaching with medicre talent. In that case every mistake kills you. You can see it in Bohl's style...he was suuuper conservative and, generally, his team played more mistake free than the opponent. It kept games close against good teams and was pretty much enough to beat bad teams...also, It's not a fluke that the one year Wyoming played for a championship had a lot more talent than the other years.

All theoretical so nothing more than opinion but I think better coaching wins JA, Hill, et al. a championship. I think better coaching puts this squad in the running for a championship but would require playing up for suds. I don't think anyone other than Utah has outclassed the Pokes enough to say they're guaranteed losses. I'm with you that I don't think this squad would win the championship but I do think with totally unrealistic exceptional coaching at every coaching position would set this squad up for 2nd to 4th. I don't know if this squad wins another game.

I think the coaching gap is realistically 7-8 wins for a pretty decent set of coaches vs whatever this crew ends with.

 

[Cowboy20]

I know many folks on here don’t want to wait another year, but I think you have to give Sawvel one more year. To compare Bohl’s last season is ridiculous. That team had at least 3 regular season games where the ball bounced their way, and the bowl game where a pretty lucky pass play at a crucial time elevated them to that 9-4 record. Could have easily been a 6-6 season, but a very good offensive line and a smart quarterback was all the difference. Oh, and a little luck. Bohl knew what he had coming back at quarterback, offensive line, and he knew he wasn’t the right coach anymore with the changes to the game with the transfer portal, NIL, and everything else that has pretty much killed the G6 teams chance at being a juggernaut. I also believe Sawvel is trying to change our offensive identity. This doesn’t happen fast when you’re going from a power run game to throwing the ball more. We do need better players and depth. He’s upgraded in some areas, but it’s taking time at others. Great offensive linemen are expensive, and the quarterback position is a work in progress. Drube might have ability, but to throw him in unprepared is irresponsible. Hasselbeck might also be a major upgrade, but he’s a pup too. Bottom line is, recruiting for that position was a whole lot of swings and misses after Josh. Peasley had experience and was a good get when we got him. But I know I sat by a lot of fans his first year here that hated him too. I think we’d all welcome his ability now. Perhaps 10 years of believing we were finally going to get over the hump, only to be disappointed by not even contending for a conference championship outside of 1, has made everyone grumpy. The Air Force game was inexcusable, but outside of that, I don’t think it’s a surprise we’ve lost to who we have. The good news is, the defense is good enough to keep us in every game we have left. The offense, if Kaden can take care of the ball, could score enough to beat every team we have left. Coaches don’t throw interceptions, drop passes, or fumble the ball.