Is the BYU game the worst scheduling decision in UW history?

[WesternJustice]

Am I the naïve one here on this contract stuff? Is it a given that it's an immoral stain on your character to pay the agreed upon monetary amount if the plan changes or you get a better offer elsewhere?

Maybe they intended to pay the amount and not go to Laramie from the beginning...I suppose that is possible and to hear you all bloviate about it...perhaps it's probable. Who cares! That's why that clause is in these contracts.

Does this extend to cell phone or cable plans? If you get a better offer elsewhere or just signed up for whatever free doo-dad they were offering new customers, can you morally pay the fee to be free from the monthly amount? Or does this narrowly apply to college football scheduling agreements between former MWC foes?

Yes, yes you are. Are you kidding me? Why say you are going to make a return trip to a school, then renege on that commitment? If you are only interested in having that school play at your place then pay them money to come. Why say you are going to play the return game when you have zero intention of doing so? It unscrupulous and deceitful. BYU are bad actors. What are we supposed to do with that date in 2024 now? We're going to get screwed over because they have no integrity.

Wrong dude. BYU has no control of when a P5 invite comes. If that we’re the case, we’d have joined years ago. The contract specifically gives allowances for such a scenario. It happened. Get over it. Wyoming knew that was a distinct possibility; it’s in writing for Pete’s sake. You’re no victim.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Am I the naïve one here on this contract stuff? Is it a given that it's an immoral stain on your character to pay the agreed upon monetary amount if the plan changes or you get a better offer elsewhere?

Maybe they intended to pay the amount and not go to Laramie from the beginning...I suppose that is possible and to hear you all bloviate about it...perhaps it's probable. Who cares! That's why that clause is in these contracts.

Does this extend to cell phone or cable plans? If you get a better offer elsewhere or just signed up for whatever free doo-dad they were offering new customers, can you morally pay the fee to be free from the monthly amount? Or does this narrowly apply to college football scheduling agreements between former MWC foes?

Yes, yes you are. Are you kidding me? Why say you are going to make a return trip to a school, then renege on that commitment? If you are only interested in having that school play at your place then pay them money to come. Why say you are going to play the return game when you have zero intention of doing so? It unscrupulous and deceitful. BYU are bad actors. What are we supposed to do with that date in 2024 now? We're going to get screwed over because they have no integrity.

Wrong dude. BYU has no control of when a P5 invite comes. If that we’re the case, we’d have joined years ago. The contract specifically gives allowances for such a scenario. It happened. Get over it. Wyoming knew that was a distinct possibility; it’s in writing for Pete’s sake. You’re no victim.

You're wrong - BYU really never intended to fulfill the terms of the contract under any scenario.

However, you are correct, Wyoming isn't a victim. Our leadership entered into such an agreement. They are the ones who must be accountable.

 

[LanderPoke]

Am I the naïve one here on this contract stuff? Is it a given that it's an immoral stain on your character to pay the agreed upon monetary amount if the plan changes or you get a better offer elsewhere?

Maybe they intended to pay the amount and not go to Laramie from the beginning...I suppose that is possible and to hear you all bloviate about it...perhaps it's probable. Who cares! That's why that clause is in these contracts.

Does this extend to cell phone or cable plans? If you get a better offer elsewhere or just signed up for whatever free doo-dad they were offering new customers, can you morally pay the fee to be free from the monthly amount? Or does this narrowly apply to college football scheduling agreements between former MWC foes?

Yes, yes you are. Are you kidding me? Why say you are going to make a return trip to a school, then renege on that commitment? If you are only interested in having that school play at your place then pay them money to come. Why say you are going to play the return game when you have zero intention of doing so? It unscrupulous and deceitful. BYU are bad actors. What are we supposed to do with that date in 2024 now? We're going to get screwed over because they have no integrity.

Wrong dude. BYU has no control of when a P5 invite comes. If that we’re the case, we’d have joined years ago. The contract specifically gives allowances for such a scenario. It happened. Get over it. Wyoming knew that was a distinct possibility; it’s in writing for Pete’s sake. You’re no victim.

I'm a victim of our own moronic AD who signed the contract. Anyone with 1/4 of a brain could see that BYU isn't going to make the return trip for a variety of reasons. Burman probably got some sort of kickback or bribe

 

[CowboyNV]

Wrong dude. BYU has no control of when a P5 invite comes. If that we’re the case, we’d have joined years ago. The contract specifically gives allowances for such a scenario. It happened. Get over it. Wyoming knew that was a distinct possibility; it’s in writing for Pete’s sake. You’re no victim.

While I can't stand BYU (I still have a "We're despicable" t-shirt hiding somewhere), what chaps me even more is our idiot fucking AD knew this contract was bullshit and he still signed it. It is probably one of the most insane and inane things he has done (and he has done a bunch of them). The fucker should be fired just on stupidity alone. If he was just looking for a payday, there are any number of P5 programs that would have paid much more for a body bag game. He fucked up. Full stop. He needs to go. As far as BYU goes, I could care less if you guys ever won another game again. Or, you could win it all. I. Don't. Give. A. Shit.

 

[Old-Bull]

They are a bunch of pussies. They have like 75 threads on their archaic, embarrassing message board about some Oregon students chanting "[#]f##k the Mormons". Thin skin? Did it hurt their little feelings? Have they ever heard the phrase sticks and stones... lmao.

Don't chant fuck the Mormons, but chanting the N word at a volleyball game is not a violation of the "honor code".

Hypocrites.

 

[WesternJustice]

Am I the naïve one here on this contract stuff? Is it a given that it's an immoral stain on your character to pay the agreed upon monetary amount if the plan changes or you get a better offer elsewhere?

Maybe they intended to pay the amount and not go to Laramie from the beginning...I suppose that is possible and to hear you all bloviate about it...perhaps it's probable. Who cares! That's why that clause is in these contracts.

Does this extend to cell phone or cable plans? If you get a better offer elsewhere or just signed up for whatever free doo-dad they were offering new customers, can you morally pay the fee to be free from the monthly amount? Or does this narrowly apply to college football scheduling agreements between former MWC foes?

Yes, yes you are. Are you kidding me? Why say you are going to make a return trip to a school, then renege on that commitment? If you are only interested in having that school play at your place then pay them money to come. Why say you are going to play the return game when you have zero intention of doing so? It unscrupulous and deceitful. BYU are bad actors. What are we supposed to do with that date in 2024 now? We're going to get screwed over because they have no integrity.

Wrong dude. BYU has no control of when a P5 invite comes. If that we’re the case, we’d have joined years ago. The contract specifically gives allowances for such a scenario. It happened. Get over it. Wyoming knew that was a distinct possibility; it’s in writing for Pete’s sake. You’re no victim.

You're wrong - BYU really never intended to fulfill the terms of the contract under any scenario.

However, you are correct, Wyoming isn't a victim. Our leadership entered into such an agreement. They are the ones who must be accountable.

You know more than me if you know the intent of people’s heart. I can’t say you’re right or wrong about that. I can say it happens all the time. ND signed a home and home with us when we first started independence. We played in South Bend and then they cancelled our game, delayed it indefinitely, and have never come to Provo after a decade. Finally last year our AD announced that we’re playing a game in Vegas with ND. A neutral site! That and we get 1/5 of the tickets! I don’t think we’re ever gonna see ND in Provo or any money. It sucks to be big-timed. I hope we’re not intentionally doing that to Wyoming. I think you’ll at least see money.

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

Wrong dude. BYU has no control of when a P5 invite comes. If that we’re the case, we’d have joined years ago. The contract specifically gives allowances for such a scenario. It happened. Get over it. Wyoming knew that was a distinct possibility; it’s in writing for Pete’s sake. You’re no victim.
[/quote]

You're wrong - BYU really never intended to fulfill the terms of the contract under any scenario.

However, you are correct, Wyoming isn't a victim. Our leadership entered into such an agreement. They are the ones who must be accountable.
[/quote]

I agree Burman is a moron for ever scheduling this game, and other reasons.

It doesn’t let BYU off the hook if they don’t have the honor to come to Laramie.

 

[307bball]

I agree Burman is a moron for ever scheduling this game, and other reasons.

It doesn’t let BYU off the hook if they don’t have the honor to come to Laramie.

Ah yes...the "honor" to come to Laramie....What is this "honor" bs you guys keep spouting? It's like we expect Burman to walk up to Sitake and slap him in the face with a glove and declare "my seconds shall see your seconds at dawn!". This is business...pure and simple. It sounds like it's personal to you but you are a fan...not the guy in charge. Criticize the business decisions all you want but can we not clutch our pearls so much!!!

If there is some standard of "bad faith" negotiations that BYU has exceeded then the University of Wyoming should file suit. I don't think they will because they have a contract that spells out what will happen in the event of all sorts of outcomes that will most likely be followed. Hate Burman all you want for dealing with an institution that you don't like but that is not BYU's fault at all. (In fairness to some who are posting....that does seem to be your position.)

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

I agree Burman is a moron for ever scheduling this game, and other reasons.

It doesn’t let BYU off the hook if they don’t have the honor to come to Laramie.

Ah yes...the "honor" to come to Laramie....What is this "honor" bs you guys keep spouting? It's like we expect Burman to walk up to Sitake and slap him in the face with a glove and declare "my seconds shall see your seconds at dawn!". This is business...pure and simple. It sounds like it's personal to you but you are a fan...not the guy in charge. Criticize the business decisions all you want but can we not clutch our pearls so much!!!

If there is some standard of "bad faith" negotiations that BYU has exceeded then the University of Wyoming should file suit. I don't think they will because they have a contract that spells out what will happen in the event of all sorts of outcomes that will most likely be followed. Hate Burman all you want for dealing with an institution that you don't like but that is not BYU's fault at all. (In fairness to some who are posting....that does seem to be your position.)

So, when you sign a contract, let’s say for an auto loan - or a mortgage, with no intention of honoring it. That’s okay. The cowboy code is honor your word. You know there was a day honorable people, with integrity (doing the right thing when no one is looking) was done with a handshake. It didn’t require a notarized signature. No wonder our society is the way it is, with attitudes like this. Let’s excuse everyone for bad behavior. Let’s not hold people accountable for THEIR actions. I’m sorry, I don’t see it that way. People need to do what they say they are going to do. I won’t apologize for that expectation. Yes HONOR. It’s a thing and we have little of it anymore.

 

[307bball]

I agree Burman is a moron for ever scheduling this game, and other reasons.

It doesn’t let BYU off the hook if they don’t have the honor to come to Laramie.

Ah yes...the "honor" to come to Laramie....What is this "honor" bs you guys keep spouting? It's like we expect Burman to walk up to Sitake and slap him in the face with a glove and declare "my seconds shall see your seconds at dawn!". This is business...pure and simple. It sounds like it's personal to you but you are a fan...not the guy in charge. Criticize the business decisions all you want but can we not clutch our pearls so much!!!

If there is some standard of "bad faith" negotiations that BYU has exceeded then the University of Wyoming should file suit. I don't think they will because they have a contract that spells out what will happen in the event of all sorts of outcomes that will most likely be followed. Hate Burman all you want for dealing with an institution that you don't like but that is not BYU's fault at all. (In fairness to some who are posting....that does seem to be your position.)

So, when you sign a contract, let’s say for an auto loan - or a mortgage, with no intention of honoring it. That’s okay. The cowboy code is honor your word. You know there was a day honorable people, with integrity (doing the right thing when no one is looking) was done with a handshake. It didn’t require a notarized signature. No wonder our society is the way it is, with attitudes like this. Let’s excuse everyone for bad behavior. Let’s not hold people accountable for THEIR actions. I’m sorry, I don’t see it that way. People need to do what they say they are going to do. I won’t apologize for that expectation. Yes HONOR. It’s a thing and we have little of it anymore.

You won't find much argument from me when it comes to valuing honorable actions....It's just misapplied in this instance. I also think it's misapplied as it relates to the auto or home loan. If you enter into that agreement with no intention of upholding the terms that would not be "honorable".....However, people don't live up to their agreements all of the time, whether they intend to or not, and there are recourse for those situations that don't require us to live in an honor culture.

As far as my community and country...I hope I don't live in an honor culture. Honor cultures are often very violent with very subjective standards. I would rather live in a society of laws with honorable people...or at least people who try to be honorable since nobody is perfect (Wyoming fans included). It is very easy to get really tribal when it comes to sports...it can bring out the best but it also brings out some pretty rotten stuff...stuff that connects to humanities worst instincts of racism, bigotry, and hate.

 

[LanderPoke]

307bball, stop simping for byu. It's getting gross

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

I agree Burman is a moron for ever scheduling this game, and other reasons.

It doesn’t let BYU off the hook if they don’t have the honor to come to Laramie.

Ah yes...the "honor" to come to Laramie....What is this "honor" bs you guys keep spouting? It's like we expect Burman to walk up to Sitake and slap him in the face with a glove and declare "my seconds shall see your seconds at dawn!". This is business...pure and simple. It sounds like it's personal to you but you are a fan...not the guy in charge. Criticize the business decisions all you want but can we not clutch our pearls so much!!!

If there is some standard of "bad faith" negotiations that BYU has exceeded then the University of Wyoming should file suit. I don't think they will because they have a contract that spells out what will happen in the event of all sorts of outcomes that will most likely be followed. Hate Burman all you want for dealing with an institution that you don't like but that is not BYU's fault at all. (In fairness to some who are posting....that does seem to be your position.)

So, when you sign a contract, let’s say for an auto loan - or a mortgage, with no intention of honoring it. That’s okay. The cowboy code is honor your word. You know there was a day honorable people, with integrity (doing the right thing when no one is looking) was done with a handshake. It didn’t require a notarized signature. No wonder our society is the way it is, with attitudes like this. Let’s excuse everyone for bad behavior. Let’s not hold people accountable for THEIR actions. I’m sorry, I don’t see it that way. People need to do what they say they are going to do. I won’t apologize for that expectation. Yes HONOR. It’s a thing and we have little of it anymore.

You won't find much argument from me when it comes to valuing honorable actions....It's just misapplied in this instance. I also think it's misapplied as it relates to the auto or home loan. If you enter into that agreement with no intention of upholding the terms that would not be "honorable".....However, people don't live up to their agreements all of the time, whether they intend to or not, and there are recourse for those situations that don't require us to live in an honor culture.

As far as my community and country...I hope I don't live in an honor culture. Honor cultures are often very violent with very subjective standards. I would rather live in a society of laws with honorable people...or at least people who try to be honorable since nobody is perfect (Wyoming fans included). It is very easy to get really tribal when it comes to sports...it can bring out the best but it also brings out some pretty rotten stuff...stuff that connects to humanities worst instincts of racism, bigotry, and hate.

Choking here, you’ve been arguing about honor the whole thread. Especially with BYU - they have an honor code. Whether it’s observed is the question. Seems like that is arbitrary - their fans say if we lose a game to Wyoming since they will be in the Big12 doing the honorable thing isn’t an issue.

And it is all about intention - that’s been the point.

This is useless with you.

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

I agree Burman is a moron for ever scheduling this game, and other reasons.

It doesn’t let BYU off the hook if they don’t have the honor to come to Laramie.

Ah yes...the "honor" to come to Laramie....What is this "honor" bs you guys keep spouting? It's like we expect Burman to walk up to Sitake and slap him in the face with a glove and declare "my seconds shall see your seconds at dawn!". This is business...pure and simple. It sounds like it's personal to you but you are a fan...not the guy in charge. Criticize the business decisions all you want but can we not clutch our pearls so much!!!

If there is some standard of "bad faith" negotiations that BYU has exceeded then the University of Wyoming should file suit. I don't think they will because they have a contract that spells out what will happen in the event of all sorts of outcomes that will most likely be followed. Hate Burman all you want for dealing with an institution that you don't like but that is not BYU's fault at all. (In fairness to some who are posting....that does seem to be your position.)

So, when you sign a contract, let’s say for an auto loan - or a mortgage, with no intention of honoring it. That’s okay. The cowboy code is honor your word. You know there was a day honorable people, with integrity (doing the right thing when no one is looking) was done with a handshake. It didn’t require a notarized signature. No wonder our society is the way it is, with attitudes like this. Let’s excuse everyone for bad behavior. Let’s not hold people accountable for THEIR actions. I’m sorry, I don’t see it that way. People need to do what they say they are going to do. I won’t apologize for that expectation. Yes HONOR. It’s a thing and we have little of it anymore.

You won't find much argument from me when it comes to valuing honorable actions....It's just misapplied in this instance. I also think it's misapplied as it relates to the auto or home loan. If you enter into that agreement with no intention of upholding the terms that would not be "honorable".....However, people don't live up to their agreements all of the time, whether they intend to or not, and there are recourse for those situations that don't require us to live in an honor culture.

As far as my community and country...I hope I don't live in an honor culture. Honor cultures are often very violent with very subjective standards. I would rather live in a society of laws with honorable people...or at least people who try to be honorable since nobody is perfect (Wyoming fans included). It is very easy to get really tribal when it comes to sports...it can bring out the best but it also brings out some pretty rotten stuff...stuff that connects to humanities worst instincts of racism, bigotry, and hate.

aaand, to your point - you wouldn’t need laws if people were honorable….. My point about before contracts deals were honored with a handshake.

Your laws - honor thing, is splitting hairs.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I agree Burman is a moron for ever scheduling this game, and other reasons.

It doesn’t let BYU off the hook if they don’t have the honor to come to Laramie.

If there is some standard of "bad faith" negotiations that BYU has exceeded then the University of Wyoming should file suit. I don't think they will because they have a contract that spells out what will happen in the event of all sorts of outcomes that will most likely be followed. Hate Burman all you want for dealing with an institution that you don't like but that is not BYU's fault at all. (In fairness to some who are posting....that does seem to be your position.)

UW won't file suit because the damages for breach of the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing (which is automatically included in every contract) is typically limited to either: (1) expectation damages; or (2) liquidated damages. Courts, with very few exceptions, do not award punitive damages for breach of contract. Because of the 'buyout clause' (a liquidated damages provision), we are pretty much stuck with that. However, that doesn't in any way lessen the obligation in every contract to negotiate and carry out the terms of the contract in good faith. It's not just the Cowboy way, it is the law. Unfortunately, the law doesn't have a lot of teeth because it does encourage this bad behavior by the remedy limitations.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

It sucks to be big-timed. I hope we’re not intentionally doing that to Wyoming.

Don't worry. You're not. Intentionally or unintentionally.

Lmao. byu "big timing" someone. Borg is strong in this one.

Man, I can't wait for this series to die forever.

 

[PokesArePeopleToo]

At this point I'm exhausted by this entire thread.

Just win this game Pokes.

Thank you.

 

[PokesArePeopleToo]

At this point I'm exhausted by this entire thread.

Just win this game Pokes.

Thank you.

 

[307bball]

Choking here, you’ve been arguing about honor the whole thread. Especially with BYU - they have an honor code. Whether it’s observed is the question. Seems like that is arbitrary - their fans say if we lose a game to Wyoming since they will be in the Big12 doing the honorable thing isn’t an issue.

And it is all about intention - that’s been the point.

This is useless with you.

Finally...you are getting it..I have been addressing the use of the term "honor". Whether BYU lives up to it's code or Wyoming lives up to a "Cowboy" code is not the issue that the title of this thread is addressing. It is you and a few others that keep bringing this up in terms of morality and honor.

From what I can tell....the arguments that this is the worst scheduling mistake in Cowboy football history revolve around the following:

1. BYU is "dishonorable" in the way they negotiate these home and home series. This is evidenced by the fact that it seems likely that they need to vacate a bunch of games in 2024, they will most likely buy the Wyoming game out. Some of you believe that BYU knew that this would be the outcome all along and are labelling it "dishonorable"....Of all of the reasons it was a mistake to schedule this game..this one is the weakest. It is incoherent on it's face.

2. BYU will likely play "dirty" and "cheap shot" our players into injuries that would otherwise be avoided. Because I'm a Wyoming fan, I'm susceptible to this argument. I'd like to assume the best of people but, as others have shown, BYU has a reputation that precedes them. I always had assumed it was just because they were a top WAC and then MWC program resulting in a lot of sour grapes. After doing a bit of digging...I have to admit. It's not a great look. I rate this reason a solid C.

3. Wyoming is doing some sort of favor to the cougars by scheduling this game and since they tried to screw us in their conference realignment shenanigans, we should not extend them the favor of scheduling this series. This one might be even weaker than #1. In fairness this reason is not put forth explicitly and when I've questioned it, Ragtime and a few others have acknowledged that this is not the reason.

4. I'm putting this one forth...this is THE reason that scheduling this game was the worst decision in UW history.....Burman did not realize the level of BYU derangement syndrome and may have actually pissed off lifelong Cowboy fans so much that it will hurt home attendance and donations going forward. The level of hatred for BYU within the Wyoming fanbase is so far beyond sports hate that is borders on religious zeal and as such, there is no way forward except just acting like they don't exist. Even the prospect of one day beating BYU in a fair sporting contest does not assuage the zealot...for the zealot is pure...the zealot is right...the zealot is... all.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Or we just don't like them for their actions over decades and prefer to not have them around in any capacity.

Not sure why that's hard for you to grasp, 307.

 

[307bball]

Or we just don't like them for their actions over decades and prefer to not have them around in any capacity.

Not sure why that's hard for you to grasp, 307.

That statement also applies to CSU though.....

We all don't like CSU's "actions" but we aren't clamoring to never play them again....It is the why we don't like the actions and the intent behind them.