Hawaii at Wyoming

[ragtimejoe1]

Great game by the D! I thought the D would struggle more against the pass; but they did a heck of a job.

Offense got first downs consistently and pounded out good point production as well. Passing game still scares me but wasn't essential tonight.

Great win! Congrats coaches and players!

 

[LanderPoke]

Good game by the pokes. Pretty good in all three phases. Love the vigor with which our guys went to grab the Paniolo trophy lol

 

[laxwyo]

Ok. Do you guys think that Hawaii lost because they offense had shitty play calling? They only scored 7, surely it was only the play calling and if they had just called different plays, they would have trounced us. Or maybe there was something else? I only bring this up so that some of you can reflect on your opinions

 

[Wyokie]

Ok. Do you guys think that Hawaii lost because they offense had shitty play calling? They only scored 7, surely it was only the play calling and if they had just called different plays, they would have trounced us. Or maybe there was something else? I only bring this up so that some of you can reflect on your opinions

Since I visit Sports Hawaii a few, I read the game thread on there to get their POV of the game (I posted a few times on the thread). Some were saying that the elevation played a role in the game. Their defense was on the field so long they were gassed.

If any of you wants to read about the game from Hawaii's fan point of view...

https://www.sportshawaii.com/sh/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51332

 

[laxwyo]

Ok. Do you guys think that Hawaii lost because they offense had shitty play calling? They only scored 7, surely it was only the play calling and if they had just called different plays, they would have trounced us. Or maybe there was something else? I only bring this up so that some of you can reflect on your opinions

Since I visit Sports Hawaii a few, I read the game thread on there to get their POV of the game (I posted a few times on the thread). Some were saying that the elevation played a role in the game. Their defense was on the field so long they were gassed.

If any of you wants to read about the game from Hawaii's fan point of view...

https://www.sportshawaii.com/sh/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=51332

Was anyone calling for the OC’s head?

I get as frustrated with what we perceive is bad play calling as the next guy but the whole fire the OC after every game or the first series of the game is so old. Sometimes the kids just need to go out there and beat the kid in front of them. Even if they fired Vigen, the new guy would grab Vigens laminated play sheet and we wouldn’t see much difference.

 

[307bball]

Well said...

 

[ragtimejoe1]

On the other hand, Vigen runs the offense and is QB coach for an offense that is bottom 20 in CFB in most years. He deserves credit for things like maintaining good relationships with Allen, but Allen was clearly drafted more for his potential than college production.

Whatever "it" is, the offense and especially passing game is FCS-level at best. Say what you want about Bohl's philosophy, but I'll guarantee he'd prefer more offensive production.

There is no argument anyone can make that Vigen is doing a good job. I still prefer keeping Bohl even if that means hoping Vigen figures it out.

 

[LanderPoke]

lol. Since the Hawai’i coach didn’t call the same predictable play 60% of the time I would say its player execution for them. Vigen has a track record of abject mediocrity... at best

 

[307bball]

lol. Since the Hawai’i coach didn’t call the same predictable play 60% of the time I would say its player execution for them. Vigen has a track record of abject mediocrity... at best

Lander... Just curious. What distinction do you draw, if any, between Vigen's track record and Bohl's track record. Is a sub-par offense not ultimately the responsibility of the head coach? Do you have some information that the rest of us don't, that points to Vigen persisting with this offense over Bohl's objections? If so... Please share, or call for the head of the guy most likely responsible...Bohl himself.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Simplified: Vigen = Stanard except Vigen is Bohl's friend.

Should Vigen be replaced, I would expect increased productivity similar to what we observed when Stanard was replaced.

It was Bohl's defensive philosophy but Stanard struggled to coach it. Same scenario with Vigen, imo.

Yes, I understand Bohl's indirect endorsement by not changing.

 

[LanderPoke]

lol. Since the Hawai’i coach didn’t call the same predictable play 60% of the time I would say its player execution for them. Vigen has a track record of abject mediocrity... at best

Lander... Just curious. What distinction do you draw, if any, between Vigen's track record and Bohl's track record. Is a sub-par offense not ultimately the responsibility of the head coach? Do you have some information that the rest of us don't, that points to Vigen persisting with this offense over Bohl's objections? If so... Please share, or call for the head of the guy most likely responsible...Bohl himself.

I believe that Bohl is generally OK with the overall philosophy, distribution of run vs pass, pro style, but I do not think he's the one that's responsible for calling "run it up the middle" "A-gap" "HB dive" over and over and over and over. I think that's Vigen. I've heard that Vigen is the one calling the plays, not Bohl. I do not believe that Bohl is telling Vigen to run it in between the guards 50% of the plays.

Bohl needs to relinquish control of the offense. Period. And hire a competent OC that still will run a "conservative" pro-style offense with more imagination in both the running game and passing game. When's the last time we even handed it off to the motion guy for a sweep!??

To answer your question... both Bohl and Vigen need to pull their heads out of their butts. Bohl needs to get rid of Vigen, and Vigen needs to be BANNED from calling run it up the middle and be forced to call more creative and less predictable plays.

The run it up the middle stuff works when it works. Against Hawaii it worked, BUT against many teams it does not and when it does not we're usually screwed and have nothing to fall back on. No creative run game. No creative passing game.

 

[307bball]

Simplified: Vigen = Stanard except Vigen is Bohl's friend.

Should Vigen be replaced, I would expect increased productivity similar to what we observed when Stanard was replaced.

It was Bohl's defensive philosophy but Stanard struggled to coach it. Same scenario with Vigen, imo.

Yes, I understand Bohl's indirect endorsement by not changing.

So...basically...the implementation of Bohl's philosophy is at fault. That makes some sense. I'm just tired of complaints about play-calling that wrap up with a statement to "fire Vigen". I think this is Bohl's offense as much as Vigen's. Unless I hear it from Bohl I'm going to assume that he is ultimately fine with the conservative nature of the offense..for example...he would rather give up certain possibilities of scoring and yardage gains to ensure what we win the turnover and TOP stat. People have already pointed out that we have had varying success w/this. The decision to be super conservative with A-gap runs when we are deep in our own territory has to Bohl's right??...I know people hate on Vigen but if i'm an O-coordinator I would want to try something in those scenarios. Is there any evidence that Bohl want's to change it up?

 

[307bball]

lol. Since the Hawai’i coach didn’t call the same predictable play 60% of the time I would say its player execution for them. Vigen has a track record of abject mediocrity... at best

Lander... Just curious. What distinction do you draw, if any, between Vigen's track record and Bohl's track record. Is a sub-par offense not ultimately the responsibility of the head coach? Do you have some information that the rest of us don't, that points to Vigen persisting with this offense over Bohl's objections? If so... Please share, or call for the head of the guy most likely responsible...Bohl himself.

I believe that Bohl is generally OK with the overall philosophy, distribution of run vs pass, pro style, but I do not think he's the one that's responsible for calling "run it up the middle" "A-gap" "HB dive" over and over and over and over. I think that's Vigen. I've heard that Vigen is the one calling the plays, not Bohl. I do not believe that Bohl is telling Vigen to run it in between the guards 50% of the plays.

Bohl needs to relinquish control of the offense. Period. And hire a competent OC that still will run a "conservative" pro-style offense with more imagination in both the running game and passing game. When's the last time we even handed it off to the motion guy for a sweep!??

To answer your question... both Bohl and Vigen need to pull their heads out of their butts. Bohl needs to get rid of Vigen, and Vigen needs to be BANNED from calling run it up the middle and be forced to call more creative and less predictable plays.

The run it up the middle stuff works when it works. Against Hawaii it worked, BUT against many teams it does not and when it does not we're usually screwed and have nothing to fall back on. No creative run game. No creative passing game.

Lander, thx for the response.

I imagine...since we are 7 years into the Bohl/Vigen combo, that Vigen is calling the game exactly as Bohl wants. My guess (admittedly un-informed) is that Bohl feels like his best chance at success is perfecting the style we are seeing. At this point I don't see change on the horizon.

Your point about running up the middle working when it is working is well taken, but it cuts both ways. You could say the same thing about an anemic spread offense...looks great when you march up and down the field...not so much when it is 3 and out over and over.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Simplified: Vigen = Stanard except Vigen is Bohl's friend.

Should Vigen be replaced, I would expect increased productivity similar to what we observed when Stanard was replaced.

It was Bohl's defensive philosophy but Stanard struggled to coach it. Same scenario with Vigen, imo.

Yes, I understand Bohl's indirect endorsement by not changing.

So...basically...the implementation of Bohl's philosophy is at fault. That makes some sense. I'm just tired of complaints about play-calling that wrap up with a statement to "fire Vigen". I think this is Bohl's offense as much as Vigen's. Unless I hear it from Bohl I'm going to assume that he is ultimately fine with the conservative nature of the offense..for example...he would rather give up certain possibilities of scoring and yardage gains to ensure what we win the turnover and TOP stat. People have already pointed out that we have had varying success w/this. The decision to be super conservative with A-gap runs when we are deep in our own territory has to Bohl's right??...I know people hate on Vigen but if i'm an O-coordinator I would want to try something in those scenarios. Is there any evidence that Bohl want's to change it up?

Pure speculation, but I think Bohl's personal relationship is playing a larger role than Bohl's opinion of the offense. In other words, if Bohl and Vigen weren't friends, I predict that Vigen would have been fired already. Again, pure speculation.

Bohl is not without fault, to be sure. My take is that Vigen isn't great (or maybe even good) at the OC part of the job but the close relationship with Bohl immunizes him from being on the hot seat. In other words, Vigen plays a much bigger role than Bohl in the struggling offense, and I think Bohl deserves criticism for not moving on. I don't think Bohl sticking with Vigen is necessarily that he's happy with the offense but more a testament of the strong personal relationship he has with Vigen. I could be way off, but that is my guess.

 

[LanderPoke]

I guess we're stuck with what we have. And I guess I'll take it considering the previous three coaches for the University ofWyoming. I just feel we'll never win the conference without changing things up on offense. The one year we had an explosive passing game we were a CJ Johnson drop away form winning the MWC.

 

[laxwyo]

Its a simple thing. Bohl would rather see a 0 yard run gain than an incomplete pass. On a 3 and out he’d rather have run 3 times than pass because he believes that you shorten the game and reduce number of possessions your D has to defend. People are right, we’ve had limited success. I think Hawaii is the exact game Bohl desires. Even if you’re not scoring in bunches, the O chewed up lots of clock, moved the ball and kept the D off the field.

I always hated the Stanard comparison. Stanard literally has a D of nothing but Freshmen. I don’t think he was a good DC bit he has 0 to work with. Sometimes it’s about the talent level.

 

[307bball]

Its a simple thing. Bohl would rather see a 0 yard run gain than an incomplete pass. On a 3 and out he’d rather have run 3 times than pass because he believes that you shorten the game and reduce number of possessions your D has to defend. People are right, we’ve had limited success. I think Hawaii is the exact game Bohl desires. Even if you’re not scoring in bunches, the O chewed up lots of clock, moved the ball and kept the D off the field.

I always hated the Stanard comparison. Stanard literally has a D of nothing but Freshmen. I don’t think he was a good DC bit he has 0 to work with. Sometimes it’s about the talent level.

True...how can talent level not have an effect?? People downgrade the offensive output of the season we played in the conference championship because that team was "loaded" with NFL talent. What if we ran the triple option? Air raid? Wing-T?...I would bet that the years you have great talent would also be the ones with the most success. Last I checked the best teams tend to be loaded with NFL talent.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I always hated the Stanard comparison. Stanard literally has a D of nothing but Freshmen. I don’t think he was a good DC bit he has 0 to work with. Sometimes it’s about the talent level.

Stanard guided 3 years of a defense that progressively got worse. He had 0 to work with every year???

Maybe he just sucked as a coordinator like, well, you know.

Defensive Lineman

29 Garrett Crall – Freshman (6'5", 221)
34 Jaret Falkowski – Freshman (6'3", 243)
42 Kevin Prosser – Sophomore (6'2", 215)
51 Trevor Meader – Redshirt Senior (6'4", 239)
53 Josiah Hall – Redshirt Freshman (6'1", 237)
57 Chase Appleby – Redshirt Senior (6'0", 268)
58 Taniela Lolohea – Junior (6'1", 253)
60 Kendall Dickson – Freshman (6'4", 229)
76 Darius Baker – Junior (6'3", 289)
78 Shane Henderson – Freshman (6'0", 317)
86 Adam Kinder – Redshirt Senior (6'2", 252)
87 Conner Cain – Redshirt Sophomore (6'4", 279)
90 Mark Hall – Junior (6'2", 248)
91 Carl Granderson – Sophomore (6'5", 243)
92 Shiloh Windsor – Freshman (6'3", 224)
93 Youhanna Ghaifan – Redshirt Freshman (6'4", 290)
95 Hunter Van Emmerik – Junior (6'4", 281)
96 Sidney Malauulu – Redshirt Sophomore (6'3", 301)
97 Ja'Chai Baker – Freshman (6'6", 283)
98 Dalton Fields – Redshirt Junior (6'3", 284)
99 Brent Gilliland – Redshirt Freshman (6'2", 274)

Linebacker

7 D.J. May – Redshirt Senior (5'11", 216)
11 Eric Nzeocha – Redshirt Senior (6'3", 231)
12 Christian Irving – Sophomore (5'11", 208)
15 Jaylon Watson – Redshirt Freshman (6'0", 239)
23 Tim Kamana – Redshirt Junior (5'11", 213)
30 Logan Wilson – Redshirt Freshman (6'2", 225)
32 Adam Pilapil – Redshirt Sophomore (6'1", 211)
43 Ben Wisdorf – Redshirt Freshman (6'1", 213)
44 Devin McKenna – Redshirt Senior (6'2", 228)
45 Lucas Wacha (C) – Redshirt Senior (6'1", 230)
46 Cassh Maluia – Freshman (6'0", 223)
47 Drew Harvey – Freshman (6'0", 234)
50 Adrian King – Freshman (6'1", 220)
52 Jahmari Morre – Freshman (6'2", 219)
54 Austin Lopez – Redshirt Freshman (6'3", 223)
Defensive Back

2 Robert Priester – Junior (5'9", 180)
3 Alijah Halliburton – Freshman (6'2", 180)
5 Rico Gafford – Junior (5'11", 180)
6 Marcus Epps (C) – Redshirt Sophomore (6'0", 203)
8 Jalen Ortiz – Redshirt Junior (5'10", 196)
9 Tyler Hall – Freshman (5'10", 184)
13 Ethan Patrick – Junior (6'0", 191)
16 Riley Sessions – Freshman (5'11", 193)
17 Deandre Watson – Redshirt Freshman (5'11", 187)
19 Anthony Makransky – Redshirt Sophomore (5'10", 184)
20 Josh Boyd (I) – Freshman (6'2", 175)
21 Antonio Hull – Sophomore (5'10", 188)
22 Sidney Washington, Jr. – Freshman (5'9", 164)
24 Braden Smith – Freshman (5'10", 177)
27 Davion Freeman – Redshirt Freshman (5'9", 169)
28 Andrew Wingard – Sophomore (6'0", 207)
31 Chavez Pownell, Jr. – Redshirt Sophomore (5'11", 198

 

[PokeNer]

Simplified: Vigen = Stanard except Vigen is Bohl's friend.

Should Vigen be replaced, I would expect increased productivity similar to what we observed when Stanard was replaced.

It was Bohl's defensive philosophy but Stanard struggled to coach it. Same scenario with Vigen, imo.

Yes, I understand Bohl's indirect endorsement by not changing.

So...basically...the implementation of Bohl's philosophy is at fault. That makes some sense. I'm just tired of complaints about play-calling that wrap up with a statement to "fire Vigen". I think this is Bohl's offense as much as Vigen's. Unless I hear it from Bohl I'm going to assume that he is ultimately fine with the conservative nature of the offense..for example...he would rather give up certain possibilities of scoring and yardage gains to ensure what we win the turnover and TOP stat. People have already pointed out that we have had varying success w/this. The decision to be super conservative with A-gap runs when we are deep in our own territory has to Bohl's right??...I know people hate on Vigen but if i'm an O-coordinator I would want to try something in those scenarios. Is there any evidence that Bohl want's to change it up?

Bohl has stated a few times this off-season that he expects a more productive offense, including more out of the passing game. As mentioned in this thread, I think their personal relationship will mean Bohl never gets rid of Vigen. I believe that Vigen runs the offense that Bohl wants, but doesn't get the productivity he expects. If things don't improve for Vigen this year, I would expect this coming off-season to be the year it changes, if ever. This is definitely the most vocal he's been in his tenure here.

 

[laxwyo]

I always hated the Stanard comparison. Stanard literally has a D of nothing but Freshmen. I don’t think he was a good DC bit he has 0 to work with. Sometimes it’s about the talent level.

Stanard guided 3 years of a defense that progressively got worse. He had 0 to work with every year???

Maybe he just sucked as a coordinator like, well, you know.

Defensive Lineman

29 Garrett Crall – Freshman (6'5", 221)
34 Jaret Falkowski – Freshman (6'3", 243)
42 Kevin Prosser – Sophomore (6'2", 215)
51 Trevor Meader – Redshirt Senior (6'4", 239)
53 Josiah Hall – Redshirt Freshman (6'1", 237)
57 Chase Appleby – Redshirt Senior (6'0", 268)
58 Taniela Lolohea – Junior (6'1", 253)
60 Kendall Dickson – Freshman (6'4", 229)
76 Darius Baker – Junior (6'3", 289)
78 Shane Henderson – Freshman (6'0", 317)
86 Adam Kinder – Redshirt Senior (6'2", 252)
87 Conner Cain – Redshirt Sophomore (6'4", 279)
90 Mark Hall – Junior (6'2", 248)
91 Carl Granderson – Sophomore (6'5", 243)
92 Shiloh Windsor – Freshman (6'3", 224)
93 Youhanna Ghaifan – Redshirt Freshman (6'4", 290)
95 Hunter Van Emmerik – Junior (6'4", 281)
96 Sidney Malauulu – Redshirt Sophomore (6'3", 301)
97 Ja'Chai Baker – Freshman (6'6", 283)
98 Dalton Fields – Redshirt Junior (6'3", 284)
99 Brent Gilliland – Redshirt Freshman (6'2", 274)

Linebacker

7 D.J. May – Redshirt Senior (5'11", 216)
11 Eric Nzeocha – Redshirt Senior (6'3", 231)
12 Christian Irving – Sophomore (5'11", 208)
15 Jaylon Watson – Redshirt Freshman (6'0", 239)
23 Tim Kamana – Redshirt Junior (5'11", 213)
30 Logan Wilson – Redshirt Freshman (6'2", 225)
32 Adam Pilapil – Redshirt Sophomore (6'1", 211)
43 Ben Wisdorf – Redshirt Freshman (6'1", 213)
44 Devin McKenna – Redshirt Senior (6'2", 228)
45 Lucas Wacha (C) – Redshirt Senior (6'1", 230)
46 Cassh Maluia – Freshman (6'0", 223)
47 Drew Harvey – Freshman (6'0", 234)
50 Adrian King – Freshman (6'1", 220)
52 Jahmari Morre – Freshman (6'2", 219)
54 Austin Lopez – Redshirt Freshman (6'3", 223)
Defensive Back

2 Robert Priester – Junior (5'9", 180)
3 Alijah Halliburton – Freshman (6'2", 180)
5 Rico Gafford – Junior (5'11", 180)
6 Marcus Epps (C) – Redshirt Sophomore (6'0", 203)
8 Jalen Ortiz – Redshirt Junior (5'10", 196)
9 Tyler Hall – Freshman (5'10", 184)
13 Ethan Patrick – Junior (6'0", 191)
16 Riley Sessions – Freshman (5'11", 193)
17 Deandre Watson – Redshirt Freshman (5'11", 187)
19 Anthony Makransky – Redshirt Sophomore (5'10", 184)
20 Josh Boyd (I) – Freshman (6'2", 175)
21 Antonio Hull – Sophomore (5'10", 188)
22 Sidney Washington, Jr. – Freshman (5'9", 164)
24 Braden Smith – Freshman (5'10", 177)
27 Davion Freeman – Redshirt Freshman (5'9", 169)
28 Andrew Wingard – Sophomore (6'0", 207)
31 Chavez Pownell, Jr. – Redshirt Sophomore (5'11", 198

Thanks for making my point. Literally only a couple of upperclassmen. Was that from his third year? When we went 2-10, it was even worse. Not saying he didn’t suck. I’m saying you all thought hazelton was some kind of god and we literally handed his play card over to a boy and he did just as good. 75% talent 25% coordinator skill.