Golf Teams?

[NowherePoke]

Holy shit...thread derail.

Point is...UW doesn't compete at golf. Never has. Right now the ladies team is in 15th place in a 15 team field. They do the same every week, and so do the men. Perennial losers...both golf teams.

Why do the golf teams get a pass? At least UW baseball was effing competitive. So could women's softball be. And don't give me that weather shit as a reason. Baseball could be enough of a revenue sport to offset the cost difference from having last place golf teams. But that may too forward thinking for some. Too agressive. Too ambitious.

You are too agressive and too ambitious, especially talking about having a winning program here in Laramie. How dare you.
But seriously. UW should have baseball. End of discussion. No reason not to.

In order to have baseball though, you have to fund it and you have to meet Title IX obligations (adding Women's Softball would be the logical choice to do so). Operating expenditures could be partially (but not totally) offset by the discontinuation of the golf teams. Baseball/Softball will be quite a bit more expensive (more coaches, more support staff, more events/games = more travel, etc.), but at least that provides a chunk. The remaining operating funds will need to come from somewhere else in the department. That likely means cuts in Football and Men's Basketball budgets.

There are also infrastructure upgrades required if we want to get back into the sport. Where does that money come from? We could discontinue the planned renovations to the AA and redirect the funds towards baseball/softball.

IMHO, we should focus on funding Football/Men's Basketball to the best of our ability rather than redirecting funds towards starting new programs. If those sports were consistently successful, they could generate additional revenue (Imagine the revenue difference between 10k per game and 6k per game in the AA) that might open up the possibility of athletic department expansion. I am not saying that is likely. Keep in mind our athletic department exists solely due to subsidies providing by the general university fund (and by extension the State of Wyoming, also students).

It comes from the tightwad State of Wyoming (or is supposed to) if they would get off their collective tightwad asses and fund this university the way other states (who have less money and more universities than we do) fund theirs. I'm sick and tired of hearing about the tight budgets in this state when we have one of the highest budget surplus's in the country.

This is really the core debate surrounding UW athletics at this time. Obviously, I personally would like to see the State step up and provide additional infrastructure surrounding UW athletics (don't half-ass the upgrades to the AA, build a top notch aquatic center which pays dividends not just for S&D but also training and conditioning for other sports and regional uses, etc.). But that's easy for me to say. I am a UW alum who cares deeply about the University and it's athletic programs and I am also no longer a Wyoming resident so I am isolated from the other considerations surrounding funding and budgeting of the state government.

I see several issues:

1. While Wyoming maintains a significant rainy-day fund, the current budget outlook is not so rosy.

a. Natural gas prices are quite a bit lower than during the boom times and will remain modest for a very significant amount of time as even more additional shale production comes online in other areas of North America. We are talking $4/MMBtu type range and that is after a recent uptick.

b. Coal prices and production remain stagnant due to the NG prices as power production has shifted capacity from Coal to NG. It's not going away and exports are increasing, but we can't count on significant mineral royalty growth from that sector.

c. Legitimate risk of being f'd over by the Federal Government via cuts in mineral royalty payments under any number of guises (Sequestration, policy changes, etc.).

2. The State of Wyoming heavily subsidizes both UW athletics and UW as a whole.

a. UW is in the Top (or Bottom depending on your point of view) 10% of FBS public schools when it comes to percentage of budget supplied from the general fund or state. IOW, the athletic department isn't pulling its own weight at the same level as most of our peers (the empty seats at the WAR and the AA tell part of the tale and the empty plains that are not valuable to advertisers for Tier 3 media rights tell the rest).

b. Tuition at UW is almost unbelievably affordable to in-state students, particularly with the Hathaway. Nothing is free. It is being paid by the state.

3. With that in mind, I don't think we can say that the state government has not supported UW, because it has. Now, that doesn't apply to everyone. There are certainly some that are not supportive, but overall as an entity UW has been well supported by the Wyoming government. This is particularly notable in contrast with many other states around the country for higher education funding has been slashed dramatically.

4. However, Wyoming is of course in the unique position of being able to do even more. We haven't done so.

I don't necessarily know the correct answers, but I am reasonably certain there is no political will at this time to significantly increase state funding to UW athletics. We may wish it were so, but I just don't see it happening. If it were, I would rather see those resources go towards Football and Men's Basketball. That's not because I don't value the student-athletes or prospective student-athletes competing in other sports or that I don't personally watch the other sports because I do (especially Women's BB). However, only those two sports have the potential to pay back the investment and to help raise the profile of the University.

 

[WYCowboy]

This is really the core debate surrounding UW athletics at this time. Obviously, I personally would like to see the State step up and provide additional infrastructure surrounding UW athletics (don't half-ass the upgrades to the AA, build a top notch aquatic center which pays dividends not just for S&D but also training and conditioning for other sports and regional uses, etc.). But that's easy for me to say. I am a UW alum who cares deeply about the University and it's athletic programs and I am also no longer a Wyoming resident so I am isolated from the other considerations surrounding funding and budgeting of the state government.

I see several issues:

1. While Wyoming maintains a significant rainy-day fund, the current budget outlook is not so rosy.

a. Natural gas prices are quite a bit lower than during the boom times and will remain modest for a very significant amount of time as even more additional shale production comes online in other areas of North America. We are talking $4/MMBtu type range and that is after a recent uptick.

b. Coal prices and production remain stagnant due to the NG prices as power production has shifted capacity from Coal to NG. It's not going away and exports are increasing, but we can't count on significant mineral royalty growth from that sector.

c. Legitimate risk of being f'd over by the Federal Government via cuts in mineral royalty payments under any number of guises (Sequestration, policy changes, etc.).

2. The State of Wyoming heavily subsidizes both UW athletics and UW as a whole.

a. UW is in the Top (or Bottom depending on your point of view) 10% of FBS public schools when it comes to percentage of budget supplied from the general fund or state. IOW, the athletic department isn't pulling its own weight at the same level as most of our peers (the empty seats at the WAR and the AA tell part of the tale and the empty plains that are not valuable to advertisers for Tier 3 media rights tell the rest).

b. Tuition at UW is almost unbelievably affordable to in-state students, particularly with the Hathaway. Nothing is free. It is being paid by the state.

3. With that in mind, I don't think we can say that the state government has not supported UW, because it has. Now, that doesn't apply to everyone. There are certainly some that are not supportive, but overall as an entity UW has been well supported by the Wyoming government. This is particularly notable in contrast with many other states around the country for higher education funding has been slashed dramatically.

4. However, Wyoming is of course in the unique position of being able to do even more. We haven't done so.

I don't necessarily know the correct answers, but I am reasonably certain there is no political will at this time to significantly increase state funding to UW athletics. We may wish it were so, but I just don't see it happening. If it were, I would rather see those resources go towards Football and Men's Basketball. That's not because I don't value the student-athletes or prospective student-athletes competing in other sports or that I don't personally watch the other sports because I do (especially Women's BB). However, only those two sports have the potential to pay back the investment and to help raise the profile of the University.

This part is not totally accurate and reflects the "doom & gloom" forecast that the governor and legislature would like us all to believe so they can rat-hole more of our money into more hidden 'rainy day fund accounts". Case in point - read these recent articles:

http://trib.com/business/energy/plans-for-wells-buoy-wyoming-s-oil-and-gas-future/article_f3d3ec28-41a5-566c-bde1-3009881dbe48.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And another:

http://trib.com/business/energy/studies-wyoming-and-colorado-benefit-by-combining-wind-power/article_7d701212-903d-5ad9-8863-dcb71e91f8e4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[BeaverPoke]

How much do we pay our golf coach?
I looked up some stuff about Oregon States team, which is a national powerhouse, that has won multiple national championships and Pac10 titles, and constantly goes to the post season (Regional then Super Regional before College World Series in Omaha.) and have had 50 players drafted to the MLB in the past 8 seasons.
They pay Pat Casey their coach, about 300K per season with bonuses up to 150K. When he first signed his deal after winning the CWS it was a base of 230K and has been going up since.

There are 35 students on scholarship for the OSU team.
And 17 staff members, and that includes 1 Head Coach, 3 assistants, 4 members that are just "staff", 1 director of operations, 1 strength and conditioning coach, 2 "managers", academic advisers..and a few other random titles.

I am sure the girls softball team is similar.

I don't know how much we pay the golf coach, but then again we wouldn't be paying a baseball coach at UW Pat Casey type numbers either.

Plus Laramie would be a kick ass place for a baseball team. The type of athlete it attracts isn't the famous wanna be swag losers that basketball and football attract.
Small town kids would wanna play baseball for UW.

The UW gold team has 7 members, and 1 coach. and an assistant "volunteer" coach....
They play 10 tournaments plus the MWC championships during the season...making 11
And sometimes they are weeks and weeks apart. And of the 2 Tourneys we "host" 1 is in Arizona and the other is in California...
Seems like it is a pathetic attempt to have a golf program in my opinion. And at least in the MWC, there are some ranked teams baseball.

And who really goes out to watch a friggin golf tourney.

I'm sure it would be more money running the baseball program than the golf program but it just seems like we have the golf team just so we can be D1.

Let's try and improve as a program, and as a university.

 

[NowherePoke]

Good points on the potential for production increases WYCowboy. While I still believe prices will remain stagnant (just so much production coming on line), extra production certainly provides an opportunity for revenue growth.

 

[NowherePoke]

How much do we pay our golf coach?
I looked up some stuff about Oregon States team, which is a national powerhouse, that has won multiple national championships and Pac10 titles, and constantly goes to the post season (Regional then Super Regional before College World Series in Omaha.) and have had 50 players drafted to the MLB in the past 8 seasons.
They pay Pat Casey their coach, about 300K per season with bonuses up to 150K. When he first signed his deal after winning the CWS it was a base of 230K and has been going up since.

There are 35 students on scholarship for the OSU team.
And 17 staff members, and that includes 1 Head Coach, 3 assistants, 4 members that are just "staff", 1 director of operations, 1 strength and conditioning coach, 2 "managers", academic advisers..and a few other random titles.

I am sure the girls softball team is similar.

I don't know how much we pay the golf coach, but then again we wouldn't be paying a baseball coach at UW Pat Casey type numbers either.

Plus Laramie would be a kick ass place for a baseball team. The type of athlete it attracts isn't the famous wanna be swag losers that basketball and football attract.
Small town kids would wanna play baseball for UW.

The UW gold team has 7 members, and 1 coach. and an assistant "volunteer" coach....
They play 10 tournaments plus the MWC championships during the season...making 11
And sometimes they are weeks and weeks apart. And of the 2 Tourneys we "host" 1 is in Arizona and the other is in California...
Seems like it is a pathetic attempt to have a golf program in my opinion. And at least in the MWC, there are some ranked teams baseball.

And who really goes out to watch a friggin golf tourney.

I'm sure it would be more money running the baseball program than the golf program but it just seems like we have the golf team just so we can be D1.

Let's try and improve as a program, and as a university.

Well, you did a pretty good of convincing me we will never be able to afford a baseball team.

We should try to improve as a program and university, but I don't see how taking funds away from other sports such as Football and Men's Basketball (cutting our golf program with its whopping two total coaches and 15 student-athletes will not even begin to fund baseball/softball) in order to fund a baseball program gets that job done. Why not try to improve the programs we have, particularly the programs that have the highest visibility and potential to upgrade the image of the University?

 

[BeaverPoke]

Ok, but osu has way more coaches than a normal program. New Mexico has 33 players and 4 coaches.
And I think it's kinda pathetic we suck at almost every sport and are barely squeeking by to be a Mwc school.
The fact adding another program seems so unrealistic and such a drain on money is pathetic too.
But yet we wanna be considered a real program.
We are a joke.
Btw how many mwc titles do we have in all sports? Like...3? And yeah I know wrestling is in the wcc but hey since wrestling isn't gonna be an Olympic sport cut it.
Yeah I know baseball isn't an Olympic sport but the mlb is kinda a big deal.

We should enjoy coach DC and shyatt now cuz it's probably the best we will have for a long time.
Hopefully we win some MWC titles with them but seeing how we are Wyoming I doubt we will.

 

[WyoAlum1987]

Beaver! Did you misplace your rose colored glasses?

Seriously though, I appreciate you expressing your opinions. But your comments illustrate why I think UW must change its Athletic leadership at the very top, very soon.
Even our best fans(like Beaver) are getting this "seeing as we are Wyoming" miasma."We are who we are" is Burman's mantra...and it is pernicious. That aint us pardner. We are cowboy tough-spit in your eye, the championship ALWAYS has to pass through 7200 feet.

We need leadership that gives us real hope. Find a throwback-a fire in the belly-hold myself and everyone else accountable type. Someone that can communicate WYOMING TOUGH in every sense of the word.

God save us from the self-serving, dissembling, effeminate eunich liberal bureaucrat :roll:

DC's pathetic product last year is NOT the best we can do. Not even close.. :thumbdown:

Cowboy up man...never is a long time. We'll get someone that knows what they are about in as AD sooner or later, I just hope the expectations of our fan base isnt permanently altered by the crappy decade or so we have endured under our current leadership.

 

[Wyokie]

Beaver! Did you misplace your rose colored glasses?

Seriously though, I appreciate you expressing your opinions. But your comments illustrate why I think UW must change its Athletic leadership at the very top, very soon.
Even our best fans(like Beaver) are getting this "seeing as we are Wyoming" miasma."We are who we are" is Burman's mantra...and it is pernicious. That aint us pardner. We are cowboy tough-spit in your eye, the championship ALWAYS has to pass through 7200 feet.

We need leadership that gives us real hope. Find a throwback-a fire in the belly-hold myself and everyone else accountable type. Someone that can communicate WYOMING TOUGH in every sense of the word.

God save us from the self-serving, dissembling, effeminate eunich liberal bureaucrat :roll:

DC's pathetic product last year is NOT the best we can do. Not even close.. :thumbdown:

Cowboy up man...never is a long time. We'll get someone that knows what they are about in as AD sooner or later, I just hope the expectations of our fan base isnt permanently altered by the crappy decade or so we have endured under our current leadership.

Excellent post, WyoAlum1987.

We need an AD similar to the great Paul Roach. BTW, he was my hero when I was growing up in Casper.

 

[WYCowboy]

I'll throw one name out there - Gosar - who ran for governor this last election (but didn't make it). I believe he is a Paul Roach type of person and he is a former player at UW.

 

[WyoAlum1987]

Yep, someone exactly like a Gosar. Cowboy tough from the git-go. Fire in their belly and no friggin excuses.

and Papa Roach...damn, he was my hero too. Brandenburg, Roach- didnt know we had it so good

 

[Wyokie]

Yep, someone exactly like a Gosar. Cowboy tough from the git-go. Fire in their belly and no friggin excuses.

and Papa Roach...damn, he was my hero too. Brandenburg, Roach- didnt know we had it so good

Brandenburg's ego is what ended his run at UW. He wanted to be the next AD. The university said no and so he left for San Diego State. BTW, the guy they did hire, if I remember the story right, was Paul Roach.

 

[McPeachy]

I'll throw one name out there - Gosar - who ran for governor this last election (but didn't make it). I believe he is a Paul Roach type of person and he is a former player at UW.

While I like Pete, and think he has potential...we are a living mess right now, largely driven by the poor decision of UW hiring somebody that is not experienced / nor qualified, to be an athletic director. It wasn't until later we also learned said person clearly is no visionary or go-getter, etc., etc.

 

[WyoAlum1987]

Um, there is that.. :agree:
good point McPeach