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Geoff Grammer picks Wyoming dead last?

Cowboy Junky

Cowboy Junky

Well-known member
Usually I respect Geoff. Dead last? Are you kidding me?

https://www.abqjournal.com/859134/elijah-brown-will-make-unm-contenders.html
 
sounds about right to me, with JJ and Jason being about it, hope we're better but don't see it right now being better than that, time will tell
 
I think last is a stretch. We do lose Josh Adams, but only Josh Adams. He accounted for about 1/3 of our points. It could lead to more balanced scoring. But, all these young kids will have gained a year of experience.

It also looks like Louis Adams can play and his contribution will help regain some of what we will lose with Josh.

It could be a another year of growing pains with JMac being the lone contributing senior (hopefully Marshall can change that). I could see a middle of the pack finish....but who knows how much JJ, Naughton, and Moemeka, for example, have improved.

Go Pokes!!!
 
Allen Edwards is a better coach than Grammer thinks and a more important part of UW's program under Shy than he realizes. We won't be good yet, but we won't be historically awful either. He is way off on this.
 
I know we probably don't have a player as good as Nance during his senior year or Adams during his senior year. We have one hell of a lot more depth than we have had in recent memory.

Meomeka gives us the athleticism in the post we've been missing since Nance and Cooke graduated.

All of our skinny guys put on 10-20 pounds in the off-season: that's Dalton, Herndon, Moemeka, James....James looks a lot stronger than he did last year. Hopefully, he's done nursing that injury that limited him last year.

We have one of the deepest posts in the league right now.

We have three legit scoring options with Mcmanamen, James, and Adams. We have several decent shooters with Gorski, Dalton, and Herndon.

I think we have a chance to finish in the top half of the league, maybe even top 4.

Edwards said the rotation will be at least nine deep. I actually believe that this year.

Center: Naughton, Moemeka, Barnes
PF: Herndon, Dalton,
SF: McManamen, James
SG: Adams, Gorski
PG: Liebermann

That's ten players, alhthough I don't think Barnes will play much. I wouldn't be surprised if Cody Kelley gets minutes. I think Meuller is capable of playing as a true freshman, although I expect him to redshirt. I'm not real high on Morris Marshall, but maybe he'll surprise me.

I just don't see us finishing dead last, or even ninth like we finished last year. I'm guessing somewhere between 5th-7th. I wouldn't be surprised if it's 3rd or 4th.
 
I really want to deliver Big Gulps of B&G Koolaid again this basketball preseason but I have a lot of concerns about this team. We have the pieces to contend, but I just don't know if there could have been enough growth to close the gap of losing Adams AND improve. I hope I am wrong.
 
Silly. He has Fresno at 5 and Boise at 7 while saying the reason they are there is because of all they lost. Then put us at 11 because we lost just Adams? That doesn't make sense. Yes Adams was a stud but he is the only player we lost while everyone else got a year older. Our players actually get better from year to year. And losing Shyatt and Duncan doesn't make sense for a drop off unless he doesn't think Edwards is as good of a coach but he says Edwards will do good here just not this year. Doesn't make too much sense. If he really thinks that is where we are going to end up he didn't defend his argument very well.
Im excited to see what this team can bring but my very early prediction is middle of the pack 5-8 somewhere with a chance to surprise.
 
This should be a fun year with all the depth, length, and a commitment to push the tempo.

Dead last....please.

I think I'm coming around to the idea of Adams or James as the point. I don't think they'll start there, but it allows our three best scorers to be on the floor together.

PG: Adams or James
SG: Adams or James
SF: Mcmanamen
PF: Herndon
C: Naughton
 
TSpoke said:
Silly. He has Fresno at 5 and Boise at 7 while saying the reason they are there is because of all they lost. Then put us at 11 because we lost just Adams? That doesn't make sense. Yes Adams was a stud but he is the only player we lost while everyone else got a year older. Our players actually get better from year to year. And losing Shyatt and Duncan doesn't make sense for a drop off unless he doesn't think Edwards is as good of a coach but he says Edwards will do good here just not this year. Doesn't make too much sense. If he really thinks that is where we are going to end up he didn't defend his argument very well.
Im excited to see what this team can bring but my very early prediction is middle of the pack 5-8 somewhere with a chance to surprise.
Click to expand...
Fresno and Boise finished 2nd and 3rd last year. So dropping them 3-4 spots is pretty significant but fair considering all they lost. We lost Adams, the MW player of the year, as well as our top 2 coaches after finishing 9th last year. Only dropping us 2 positions after losing all that is totally reasonable, that just happens to put us last.

Personally, I don't think the coaching changes will hurt us too bad at all. If we stay healthy, I think we can easily finish ahead of San Jose and most likely Air Force. If the guys can adapt to Edwards' new philosophy quickly, we might even finish better than CSU and UNLV (who I don't think will be THAT bad). I think finishing in the 6-8 range would be a nice accomplishment, 11th would be a big disappointment.

We have so many question marks about this team that I can't really criticize any preseason rankings saying we'll suck. Adams looked good this summer, but he went up against high school kids in those games. He's got good energy and athleticism, but it's way too early to say he can make up for a large chunk of the scoring that Josh had in MW play. Lieberman is a solid PG, but does he have the quickness to play in Edwards' system? Gorski looked out of shape and slow last year, Edwards says he had a good off-season so hopefully he can contribute more this year. Our skinny post guys put on some weight, but I'm sure the already bigger guys on other teams did the same in their off-season. All that said, I'm still pumped for hoops season! I think we can figure it out.
 
cali2wyo said:
TSpoke said:
Silly. He has Fresno at 5 and Boise at 7 while saying the reason they are there is because of all they lost. Then put us at 11 because we lost just Adams? That doesn't make sense. Yes Adams was a stud but he is the only player we lost while everyone else got a year older. Our players actually get better from year to year. And losing Shyatt and Duncan doesn't make sense for a drop off unless he doesn't think Edwards is as good of a coach but he says Edwards will do good here just not this year. Doesn't make too much sense. If he really thinks that is where we are going to end up he didn't defend his argument very well.
Im excited to see what this team can bring but my very early prediction is middle of the pack 5-8 somewhere with a chance to surprise.
Click to expand...
Fresno and Boise finished 2nd and 3rd last year. So dropping them 3-4 spots is pretty significant but fair considering all they lost. We lost Adams, the MW player of the year, as well as our top 2 coaches after finishing 9th last year. Only dropping us 2 positions after losing all that is totally reasonable, that just happens to put us last.

Personally, I don't think the coaching changes will hurt us too bad at all. If we stay healthy, I think we can easily finish ahead of San Jose and most likely Air Force. If the guys can adapt to Edwards' new philosophy quickly, we might even finish better than CSU and UNLV (who I don't think will be THAT bad). I think finishing in the 6-8 range would be a nice accomplishment, 11th would be a big disappointment.

We have so many question marks about this team that I can't really criticize any preseason rankings saying we'll suck. Adams looked good this summer, but he went up against high school kids in those games. He's got good energy and athleticism, but it's way too early to say he can make up for a large chunk of the scoring that Josh had in MW play. Lieberman is a solid PG, but does he have the quickness to play in Edwards' system? Gorski looked out of shape and slow last year, Edwards says he had a good off-season so hopefully he can contribute more this year. Our skinny post guys put on some weight, but I'm sure the already bigger guys on other teams did the same in their off-season. All that said, I'm still pumped for hoops season! I think we can figure it out.
Click to expand...

Some of those guards Adams was facing are as good or better than the majority of the guards in the MWC. One team was high school kids. Another was 24 year olds that beat a lot of really good teams the last few years, and the strength of that team was it's guard play.
 
cali2wyo said:
TSpoke said:
Silly. He has Fresno at 5 and Boise at 7 while saying the reason they are there is because of all they lost. Then put us at 11 because we lost just Adams? That doesn't make sense. Yes Adams was a stud but he is the only player we lost while everyone else got a year older. Our players actually get better from year to year. And losing Shyatt and Duncan doesn't make sense for a drop off unless he doesn't think Edwards is as good of a coach but he says Edwards will do good here just not this year. Doesn't make too much sense. If he really thinks that is where we are going to end up he didn't defend his argument very well.
Im excited to see what this team can bring but my very early prediction is middle of the pack 5-8 somewhere with a chance to surprise.
Click to expand...
Fresno and Boise finished 2nd and 3rd last year. So dropping them 3-4 spots is pretty significant but fair considering all they lost. We lost Adams, the MW player of the year, as well as our top 2 coaches after finishing 9th last year. Only dropping us 2 positions after losing all that is totally reasonable, that just happens to put us last.

Personally, I don't think the coaching changes will hurt us too bad at all. If we stay healthy, I think we can easily finish ahead of San Jose and most likely Air Force. If the guys can adapt to Edwards' new philosophy quickly, we might even finish better than CSU and UNLV (who I don't think will be THAT bad). I think finishing in the 6-8 range would be a nice accomplishment, 11th would be a big disappointment.

We have so many question marks about this team that I can't really criticize any preseason rankings saying we'll suck. Adams looked good this summer, but he went up against high school kids in those games. He's got good energy and athleticism, but it's way too early to say he can make up for a large chunk of the scoring that Josh had in MW play. Lieberman is a solid PG, but does he have the quickness to play in Edwards' system? Gorski looked out of shape and slow last year, Edwards says he had a good off-season so hopefully he can contribute more this year. Our skinny post guys put on some weight, but I'm sure the already bigger guys on other teams did the same in their off-season. All that said, I'm still pumped for hoops season! I think we can figure it out.
Click to expand...

that's a good point but I really meant that that they dropped cuz they lost so much but somehow we dropped just as much/more because we lost one player. When teams lose one player usually that means the team is on the rise. but losing Josh will drop us instead. It doesn't matter how big of a stud Josh is. One player isn't that hard to replace in my opinion. Lots of other players to pick up the slack. It is much easier than replaing the seniors fro mthe year before.
 
Dead last is really laughable - look at the amount of experience and talent returning.

Center: Naughton, Moemeka, Barnes
PF: Herndon, Dalton,
SF: McManamen, James
SG: Adams, Gorski
PG: Lieberman
(using CJ's list)

I'm not saying Wyoming is going to be MWC champions this year because of the change in playing style and new coaches, but if this dead last prediction was betable, I would take some of that. Even with the injuries, illnesses, suspensions, etc that can happen during a season, this team has enough quality depth to make this a winning season.
 
WYCowboy said:
Dead last is really laughable - look at the amount of experience and talent returning.

Center: Naughton, Moemeka, Barnes
PF: Herndon, Dalton,
SF: McManamen, James
SG: Adams, Gorski
PG: Lieberman
(using CJ's list)

I'm not saying Wyoming is going to be MWC champions this year because of the change in playing style and new coaches, but if this dead last prediction was betable, I would take some of that. Even with the injuries, illnesses, suspensions, etc that can happen during a season, this team has enough quality depth to make this a winning season.
Click to expand...

I don't want Morris Marshall, Cody Kelley, Austin Meuller, or Sam Averbuck to think that I've given up on them either. I think a couple of those guys are good enough to get minutes this year as well.

I agree though. We've got more quality depth than we've had in years. It's still young, but there's no way that we're finishing dead last.
 
cali2wyo said:
TSpoke said:
Silly. He has Fresno at 5 and Boise at 7 while saying the reason they are there is because of all they lost. Then put us at 11 because we lost just Adams? That doesn't make sense. Yes Adams was a stud but he is the only player we lost while everyone else got a year older. Our players actually get better from year to year. And losing Shyatt and Duncan doesn't make sense for a drop off unless he doesn't think Edwards is as good of a coach but he says Edwards will do good here just not this year. Doesn't make too much sense. If he really thinks that is where we are going to end up he didn't defend his argument very well.
Im excited to see what this team can bring but my very early prediction is middle of the pack 5-8 somewhere with a chance to surprise.
Click to expand...
Fresno and Boise finished 2nd and 3rd last year. So dropping them 3-4 spots is pretty significant but fair considering all they lost. We lost Adams, the MW player of the year, as well as our top 2 coaches after finishing 9th last year. Only dropping us 2 positions after losing all that is totally reasonable, that just happens to put us last.

Personally, I don't think the coaching changes will hurt us too bad at all. If we stay healthy, I think we can easily finish ahead of San Jose and most likely Air Force. If the guys can adapt to Edwards' new philosophy quickly, we might even finish better than CSU and UNLV (who I don't think will be THAT bad). I think finishing in the 6-8 range would be a nice accomplishment, 11th would be a big disappointment.

We have so many question marks about this team that I can't really criticize any preseason rankings saying we'll suck. Adams looked good this summer, but he went up against high school kids in those games. He's got good energy and athleticism, but it's way too early to say he can make up for a large chunk of the scoring that Josh had in MW play. Lieberman is a solid PG, but does he have the quickness to play in Edwards' system? Gorski looked out of shape and slow last year, Edwards says he had a good off-season so hopefully he can contribute more this year. Our skinny post guys put on some weight, but I'm sure the already bigger guys on other teams did the same in their off-season. All that said, I'm still pumped for hoops season! I think we can figure it out.
Click to expand...
Boise lost a lot more than most teams. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Poke finish higher. I haven't looked at Fresno...but Boise loses Dmric, Webb, Thompson, and a couple others that account for well over 50% of their scoring and other stats.
 
WYCowboy said:
Dead last is really laughable - look at the amount of experience and talent returning.

Center: Naughton, Moemeka, Barnes
PF: Herndon, Dalton,
SF: McManamen, James
SG: Adams, Gorski
PG: Lieberman
(using CJ's list)

I'm not saying Wyoming is going to be MWC champions this year because of the change in playing style and new coaches, but if this dead last prediction was betable, I would take some of that. Even with the injuries, illnesses, suspensions, etc that can happen during a season, this team has enough quality depth to make this a winning season.
Click to expand...
I agree with your comments -- especially the "laughable" part. Grammer has on those cherry and silver goggles, I see. Just remember, Geoff, that Craig Neal is coaching the squad. It remains to be seen how effective the Pokes will be on both ends with Edwards most likely pushing a more uptempo style in Year-One. Overall, this is a high(er)-energy coaching staff and it sounds like the kids are taking to them well. That's Step-One. And there IS more depth and experience. We shall see soon enough.

During the Pokes' tourney season two years ago, I questioned out loud Grammer's basketball literacy on several occasions stating that ol' Geoff should maybe stick to providing stats over MWC analysis. I remember a few Cowboy fans giving him crap on Twitter for not including Wyoming on his Top-25 ballot(s) when others around the country lifted the Pokes to #25 in AP, as I recall. His lame-azz excuse was he needed to make sure Wyoming wasn't just a "paper tiger". What a dolt. Way to support your MWC brethren, Geoffrey.

It will be interesting to see how this team matures throughout the OOC schedule heading into conference play. Should be interesting.
 
I'm going to try to be very reserved heading into this season. I remember the board hype of last year getting me over excited about our chances. Somehow I got lost in our Wyonation kool-aid against better judgement. I'm hoping for a middle of the pack performance or higher season. I don't think we'll be last. How can we be worse then SJSU, Air Force, or even CSU???? We have a lot of unknowns but as I've stated before one major thing we have going for us is our big men can't be worse then last year. Our bigs could range from a little bit better then last year with more depth to very improved with more depth. Louis Adams is the major X-factor this year if he plays big the Pokes will be solid. I'm still crossing my fingers for Austin Conway to play as a walk on after football. I know it sounds improbable but I'm gonna hold out in my imagination for that because man we need another PG bad this year.
 
We should have plenty of motivation this year. Here's another MWC hoops preview putting us in the cellar: at tenth.

http://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2016/10/05/mountain-west-conference-preview-its-san-diego-state-and-everyone-else-again/
 
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