Former Beav QB transferring.

[WYCowboy]

Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

That is true. There are some decent-to-above average coaches who have high level success despite not knowing the game well...all due to recruiting.

Les Miles - talent developer? Not a chance. We didn't know who Odell Beckham Jr. was until last season with NYG.
Jim Mora Jr. - Recruiting giant, average coach
Steve Sarkisian - See Mora.

Plenty of other examples. Talent wins big at the FBS level.

Exceptions are UNLV Basketball & SJSU Football.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Well duh, Coach Bohl is a good football coach. He coaches to his players talents. He has a plan and prefers things certain ways, but he is a good coach and will adapt to what he has.

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

That is true. There are some decent-to-above average coaches who have high level success despite not knowing the game well...all due to recruiting.

Les Miles - talent developer? Not a chance. We didn't know who Odell Beckham Jr. was until last season with NYG.
Jim Mora Jr. - Recruiting giant, average coach
Steve Sarkisian - See Mora.

Plenty of other examples. Talent wins big at the FBS level.

Exceptions are UNLV Basketball & SJSU Football.

Eh, I disagree.

Coaching matters, just not as much as talent.

There is probably some random number or equation a mathematician could formulate that shows the ratio of coaching level to talent level that equates to wins and losses that would generally hold true.

They both matter, talent just matters more. And when you have UNLV hoops talent, and as many losses as they do, you know their coaching is not just bad, but truly terrible.

 

[joshvanklomp]

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?

 

[J-Rod]

Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?

Boise State had an OT now headed for Canton in that game along with 5-6 other NFL players. They were no Cinderella, there was a ton of legitimate talent on that team.Not saying Boise didn't out-coach OU, but the Broncos had a ton of talent on that roster.

So many people don't even know that poor, defenseless and helpless Cinderella Boise State was a monster 6-point underdog for that game.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Note: FBS football isn't about coaching as much as it is recruiting.

Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?

Every argument you bring up is always the exception vs the rule.

And like J-Rod pointed out, there was quite a bit of talent on that team.

 

[joshvanklomp]

Yes and no. Being able to recruit helps a lot, but good coaching can beat good talent...Or am I mis-remembering Boise over Oklahoma in 2007?

Boise State had an OT now headed for Canton in that game along with 5-6 other NFL players.

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

 

[J-Rod]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

 

[NowherePoke]

Is it safe to say Smith was a good qb but was a system qb? :twocents:

Absolutely.

That's the whole reason he put up crazy numbers, didn't get drafted, and got cut 3 days into his NFL "career".

The "system" sure looked like crap when it was run by Colby and we lost to Cal Poly. Smith's numbers are of course inflated by the system that tries to generate a lot of snaps and involves the QB in some fashion (run or pass) on most downs, but he was very effective running it.

I don't think you can base evaluations of a players ability/impact in college on their professional career. The games are too different, particularly for a QB. The NFL requires a level of arm strength that Brett simply didn't have. That doesn't make him any less of a college QB though.

I tend to think in terms of basketball more often, but I don't think the fact that a guy like Marcus Bailey was never a NBA prospect (even before the injury) makes him any less of a quality college player or some type of "system" player (as I laugh to myself trying to hink of McClain having a "system", ha!). One of my favorite basketball examples is Brandon Ewing and Justin Williams. Which would you rather have on your college team? Which one played in the NBA? There is a baseline level of size and athleticism required in the professional leagues that many of the good college players just don't have, but that shouldn't diminish their productivity or impact at the college level.

Sorry for the digression.

 

[joshvanklomp]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Ryan Clady's NFL career is proof they under valued him on the rating system. Simple as that.

 

[joshvanklomp]

Ryan Clady's NFL career is proof they under valued him on the rating system. Simple as that.

Or maybe he was valued correctly and the BSU coaches developed him into an NFL player.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Craig Bohl......current coach of the Wyoming Cowboys, went 7-3 against FBS teams....including beating Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Minnesota on the road. When Joe Glenn was coach of Wyoming he went 3-1 against SEC teams.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Craig Bohl......current coach of the Wyoming Cowboys, went 7-3 against FBS teams....including beating Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Minnesota on the road. When Joe Glenn was coach of Wyoming he went 3-1 against SEC teams.

So what?

Joe Glenn went 15-31 against MWC teams.

Craig Bohl went 7-3 against FBS teams as an FCS coach? Too bad he went 3-8 against FBS teams as an FBS coach.

 

[kansasCowboy]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Craig Bohl......current coach of the Wyoming Cowboys, went 7-3 against FBS teams....including beating Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Minnesota on the road. When Joe Glenn was coach of Wyoming he went 3-1 against SEC teams.

So what?

Joe Glenn went 15-31 against MWC teams.

Craig Bohl went 7-3 against FBS teams as an FCS coach? Too bad he went 3-8 against FBS teams as an FBS coach.

3-8 playing with a team demoralized in depth and injury throughout the season. Doing a complete 180 in style and defense. And by playing some legitimate teams last year: Oregon (championship, Runner-up), Michigan St (11-2), Boise St (12-2), Utah St. (10-4), Colorado St. (10-3), Air Force (10-3). Hawaii we suffered two injuries to key D players, which seemed to help Hawaii make their comeback. SJSU, we had a few injuries which made it too close and then we lost. And UNM we were already playing with underclassmen in key spots due to the injuries through the season. But Bohl had these guys competing down to the end of each game, which is why we hada good lead half way through Hawaii before injury. Which is why as bad as we played offensively against SJSU, we lost in OT after a last second missed winning FG. Which is why, even though we were down huge against CSU, we pulled a comeback and lost by only 10. Which is why we had a shot at winning at UNM but couldn't pull it out at the end. Bohl and Co. had us in every game but Oregon, Michigan St and Boise.
Even if we went 4-8 or 3-8 ( not counting FCS) you could see this team taking up the challenge. And still Bohl managed victories over AFA, who was barely stopped anybody, and A blow out win over Fresno, who even though they were not looking great still won their division.
I don't think we could've asked for much more comparably.

I will give Bohl credit for challenging these players to compete and try to win.

 

[BJC]

So what?

Joe Glenn went 15-31 against MWC teams.

Craig Bohl went 7-3 against FBS teams as an FCS coach? Too bad he went 3-8 against FBS teams as an FBS coach.

straight fire from the Beaver

 

[JimmyDimes]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Craig Bohl......current coach of the Wyoming Cowboys, went 7-3 against FBS teams....including beating Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Minnesota on the road. When Joe Glenn was coach of Wyoming he went 3-1 against SEC teams.

So what?

Joe Glenn went 15-31 against MWC teams.

Craig Bohl went 7-3 against FBS teams as an FCS coach? Too bad he went 3-8 against FBS teams as an FBS coach.

DP

 

[JimmyDimes]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Craig Bohl......current coach of the Wyoming Cowboys, went 7-3 against FBS teams....including beating Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Minnesota on the road. When Joe Glenn was coach of Wyoming he went 3-1 against SEC teams.

So what?

Joe Glenn went 15-31 against MWC teams.

Craig Bohl went 7-3 against FBS teams as an FCS coach? Too bad he went 3-8 against FBS teams as an FBS coach.

Follow the thread better. So what? I'm saying coaching matters more than talent. Joe Glenn could still be coach if he made the needed changes to his offensive staff. And you're going to hold Bohl to that in his first year? I think you are on board with giving him time to build the program. That number is going to improve. Peace.

 

[yopaulie]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Craig Bohl......current coach of the Wyoming Cowboys, went 7-3 against FBS teams....including beating Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Minnesota on the road. When Joe Glenn was coach of Wyoming he went 3-1 against SEC teams.

So what?

Joe Glenn went 15-31 against MWC teams.

Craig Bohl went 7-3 against FBS teams as an FCS coach? Too bad he went 3-8 against FBS teams as an FBS coach.

7-3 after building the Ndsu program for about 4-5 years. Can't compare against season 1. I also don't buy the comparison to Glenn. Other than both coming from FCS (like many others), they are very different in personality and leadership style.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Ryan Clady - 2 star recruit by Rivals

Yep, and they haven't had an OT anywhere near as good as him since. Turning those types of recruits into superstars is not something you can make a habit of.

BTW, my argument isn't that Boise didn't have any talent. What I'm saying is they didn't have the talent Oklahoma did.

Good coaching can beat good talent. It doesn't happen all the time, but it can happen. And Bohl has a history of making it happen.

Craig Bohl......current coach of the Wyoming Cowboys, went 7-3 against FBS teams....including beating Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, and Minnesota on the road. When Joe Glenn was coach of Wyoming he went 3-1 against SEC teams.

So what?

Joe Glenn went 15-31 against MWC teams.

Craig Bohl went 7-3 against FBS teams as an FCS coach? Too bad he went 3-8 against FBS teams as an FBS coach.

3-8 playing with a team demoralized in depth and injury throughout the season. Doing a complete 180 in style and defense. And by playing some legitimate teams last year: Oregon (championship, Runner-up), Michigan St (11-2), Boise St (12-2), Utah St. (10-4), Colorado St. (10-3), Air Force (10-3). Hawaii we suffered two injuries to key D players, which seemed to help Hawaii make their comeback. SJSU, we had a few injuries which made it too close and then we lost. And UNM we were already playing with underclassmen in key spots due to the injuries through the season. But Bohl had these guys competing down to the end of each game, which is why we hada good lead half way through Hawaii before injury. Which is why as bad as we played offensively against SJSU, we lost in OT after a last second missed winning FG. Which is why, even though we were down huge against CSU, we pulled a comeback and lost by only 10. Which is why we had a shot at winning at UNM but couldn't pull it out at the end. Bohl and Co. had us in every game but Oregon, Michigan St and Boise.
Even if we went 4-8 or 3-8 ( not counting FCS) you could see this team taking up the challenge. And still Bohl managed victories over AFA, who was barely stopped anybody, and A blow out win over Fresno, who even though they were not looking great still won their division.
I don't think we could've asked for much more comparably.

I will give Bohl credit for challenging these players to compete and try to win.

Kansas, I am well aware of what happened last season, but thanks for recapping it as if I didn't pay attention.

I give Bohl the same amount of credit for challenging the players the same way Glenn or DC did at the beginning of their tenures. But in the end, we ended up losing a lot more than we should have.

I am pointing out how cherry picking stats (Glenn: 3-1 vs SEC and Bohl: 7-3 vs. FBS) doesn't really make an argument.

"Oh we hired a coach who kicked ass at the D1-AA level!" Great, now do it at the FBS level and I will be impressed.

"Oh we hired the best assistant in the game!" Great, now do it as the head coach and I will be impressed.

"Oh we hired a coach who kicked ass at the FCS level!" Great, now do it at the FBS level and I will be impressed.


I frankly don't care what our coaches did at their previous job once they get here. I care about what they do here.

 

[BJC]

yes yes and yes