For all the 7 year people

[ragtimejoe1]

LOL this thread lost all credibility when it was said that Koening or Glenn should have been given more time to succeed.

Yeah, things were definitely going down hill. My only thought with Glenn was if he had more assistant money, would his loyalty to his assistants remained? However, Glenn never really hit on a really good-great QB.

Some try to put words in my mouth about immediate gratification. I'm more than willing to give this year a pass. I'm a little concerned regarding the talent level, but certainly not time to pass judgement quite yet.

Where I disagree with the "patience until over a decade" crowd is that I think we should see appreciable results (i.e. 7+ wins) hopefully by year 3 and certainly by year 4. Take any P5 team and look at their schedule. Then try to pencil in 7 potential wins for a struggling program. Do the same with our schedule and the hurdle discrepancy becomes abundantly clear.

Regardless of previous performance by the program, all of the successful G5 coaches that I could come up with had substantial success within about 3 years. I'm genuinely curious if there is are a plethora of examples of G5 AND ONLY G5 coaches that required 6+ years to get a G5 program going?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

In due time. Remember, patience. This week will take time...

Fair enough, but let's make it easier and restrict the discussion to a more relevant time of modern football (i.e. BCS era forward).

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

What I'm learning here is that it's pretty tough to find some examples of a coach that struggled through a few long seasons before finally finding success, but you can find some.

I'm curious about coaches who made a quick turnaround, turned a sub-4 win program into a bowl program almost instantly and whether that coach stayed or left, the program SUSTAINED that success.

I think there's a lot of one-hit wonders who found a better job (and probably sucked) and then the program slithered back into the dumps again.

I find myself leaning towards the notion that our problem is institutional rather than coaching like others have said.

 

[LanderPoke]

All I know is that the man to turn UW football around will be a god. Whether it's Bohl or not, I don't know.

 

[HR_Poke]

LOL this thread lost all credibility when it was said that Koening or Glenn should have been given more time to succeed.

Yeah, things were definitely going down hill. My only thought with Glenn was if he had more assistant money, would his loyalty to his assistants remained? However, Glenn never really hit on a really good-great QB.

Some try to put words in my mouth about immediate gratification. I'm more than willing to give this year a pass. I'm a little concerned regarding the talent level, but certainly not time to pass judgement quite yet.

Where I disagree with the "patience until over a decade" crowd is that I think we should see appreciable results (i.e. 7+ wins) hopefully by year 3 and certainly by year 4. Take any P5 team and look at their schedule. Then try to pencil in 7 potential wins for a struggling program. Do the same with our schedule and the hurdle discrepancy becomes abundantly clear.

Regardless of previous performance by the program, all of the successful G5 coaches that I could come up with had substantial success within about 3 years. I'm genuinely curious if there is are a plethora of examples of G5 AND ONLY G5 coaches that required 6+ years to get a G5 program going?

Glenn never had a good offense at any of his coaching jobs. When he came down from Montana their fans told us that we would see a great defense and a mediocre offense. Which is exactly what happened. While the defense kept us in many games his complete whiffs on offensive personnel is what doomed his program. The fact that he and his staff couldn't identify D1 offensive talent proved that they weren't capable of coaching at this level. We could have given him 20 years and he would never have gotten over the 6-6 hump.

While progress may not be measured in wins with rebuilding a program it should be measured in the level of talent and skill of the players. They should get better every year and as the season goes on. I don't give Bohl a pass on this season as I believe a large portion of the lack of talent comes from him choosing to stay at NDSU for their run in the playoffs instead of recruiting like he should have been.

Posters can keep making excuses all they want, but the last two games have proven to me that Bohl and his staff failed in preparing their team to play football this year. UND should have been an easy win even with D1 Freshman and much of that is on Vigen thinking we could win with a vanilla play book as well as on Bohl and Stannard for sticking to a tampa 2 scheme as well as fundamentals.

 

[JimmyDimes]

LOL this thread lost all credibility when it was said that Koening or Glenn should have been given more time to succeed.

Yeah, things were definitely going down hill. My only thought with Glenn was if he had more assistant money, would his loyalty to his assistants remained? However, Glenn never really hit on a really good-great QB.

Some try to put words in my mouth about immediate gratification. I'm more than willing to give this year a pass. I'm a little concerned regarding the talent level, but certainly not time to pass judgement quite yet.

Where I disagree with the "patience until over a decade" crowd is that I think we should see appreciable results (i.e. 7+ wins) hopefully by year 3 and certainly by year 4. Take any P5 team and look at their schedule. Then try to pencil in 7 potential wins for a struggling program. Do the same with our schedule and the hurdle discrepancy becomes abundantly clear.

Regardless of previous performance by the program, all of the successful G5 coaches that I could come up with had substantial success within about 3 years. I'm genuinely curious if there is are a plethora of examples of G5 AND ONLY G5 coaches that required 6+ years to get a G5 program going?

Glenn never had a good offense at any of his coaching jobs. When he came down from Montana their fans told us that we would see a great defense and a mediocre offense. Which is exactly what happened. While the defense kept us in many games his complete whiffs on offensive personnel is what doomed his program. The fact that he and his staff couldn't identify D1 offensive talent proved that they weren't capable of coaching at this level. We could have given him 20 years and he would never have gotten over the 6-6 hump.

While progress may not be measured in wins with rebuilding a program it should be measured in the level of talent and skill of the players. They should get better every year and as the season goes on. I don't give Bohl a pass on this season as I believe a large portion of the lack of talent comes from him choosing to stay at NDSU for their run in the playoffs instead of recruiting like he should have been.

Posters can keep making excuses all they want, but the last two games have proven to me that Bohl and his staff failed in preparing their team to play football this year. UND should have been an easy win even with D1 Freshman and much of that is on Vigen thinking we could win with a vanilla play book as well as on Bohl and Stannard for sticking to a tampa 2 scheme as well as fundamentals.

I see what you're saying, but I think he did to a point. I don't have one problem what so ever in getting rid of guys or letting guys walk who aren't buying in. Sure the attrition has put us in the position of most likely being the youngest team in the nation. The younger guys are making freshman mistakes. The walk-on db's need to be replaced with scholarship kids. The linebackers need to be replaced with linebackers. The defense is just green. Only 4 guys played significant minutes in the same position this year as they played last year. Offensively, our sophomore QB looked great until he started taking on QB's. Our 3rd string guy wasn't ready for prime time. I don't know if it was nerves or not, but some of the worst passing I have seen.

I've seen signs of hope for the future, but that future isn't this year.

 

[HR_Poke]

LOL this thread lost all credibility when it was said that Koening or Glenn should have been given more time to succeed.

Yeah, things were definitely going down hill. My only thought with Glenn was if he had more assistant money, would his loyalty to his assistants remained? However, Glenn never really hit on a really good-great QB.

Some try to put words in my mouth about immediate gratification. I'm more than willing to give this year a pass. I'm a little concerned regarding the talent level, but certainly not time to pass judgement quite yet.

Where I disagree with the "patience until over a decade" crowd is that I think we should see appreciable results (i.e. 7+ wins) hopefully by year 3 and certainly by year 4. Take any P5 team and look at their schedule. Then try to pencil in 7 potential wins for a struggling program. Do the same with our schedule and the hurdle discrepancy becomes abundantly clear.

Regardless of previous performance by the program, all of the successful G5 coaches that I could come up with had substantial success within about 3 years. I'm genuinely curious if there is are a plethora of examples of G5 AND ONLY G5 coaches that required 6+ years to get a G5 program going?

Glenn never had a good offense at any of his coaching jobs. When he came down from Montana their fans told us that we would see a great defense and a mediocre offense. Which is exactly what happened. While the defense kept us in many games his complete whiffs on offensive personnel is what doomed his program. The fact that he and his staff couldn't identify D1 offensive talent proved that they weren't capable of coaching at this level. We could have given him 20 years and he would never have gotten over the 6-6 hump.

While progress may not be measured in wins with rebuilding a program it should be measured in the level of talent and skill of the players. They should get better every year and as the season goes on. I don't give Bohl a pass on this season as I believe a large portion of the lack of talent comes from him choosing to stay at NDSU for their run in the playoffs instead of recruiting like he should have been.

Posters can keep making excuses all they want, but the last two games have proven to me that Bohl and his staff failed in preparing their team to play football this year. UND should have been an easy win even with D1 Freshman and much of that is on Vigen thinking we could win with a vanilla play book as well as on Bohl and Stannard for sticking to a tampa 2 scheme as well as fundamentals.

I see what you're saying, but I think he did to a point. I don't have one problem what so ever in getting rid of guys or letting guys walk who aren't buying in. Sure the attrition has put us in the position of most likely being the youngest team in the nation. The younger guys are making freshman mistakes. The walk-on db's need to be replaced with scholarship kids. The linebackers need to be replaced with linebackers. The defense is just green. Only 4 guys played significant minutes in the same position this year as they played last year. Offensively, our sophomore QB looked great until he started taking on QB's. Our 3rd string guy wasn't ready for prime time. I don't know if it was nerves or not, but some of the worst passing I have seen.

I've seen signs of hope for the future, but that future isn't this year.

They might be better next year, but right now the whole team and staff look like deer in the headlights, which is unacceptable especially for a 2nd year team. The staff knew when they came in that after 2014 they would have a bunch of holes on an already non-existent defense. So I have a hard time giving them a pass on much. Poor preparation leads to piss poor performance in my opinion. The LB situation is ridiculous. It's like we didn't bother recruiting any LB's last year and thought we could make do with re-purposed players.

 

[PokeOLoco]

And playing multiple freshman walk-on corners/safeties? I mean, good God, that's not playing for the future, that's lighting this season on fire. This staff/Bohl is completely reaping what he sow.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I thought of one for you Kansas, Brady Hoke at Ball State. Losing seasons for 15+ years (the program at Ball State) and Hoke only won 10 games TOTAL in his first 3 years. 5-7 in his 4th year, 7-5 in his 5th, and undefeated (regular season-lost bowl game) in his 6th.

Yay! WYO is saved!!