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For 12 years now....

B

BigHorn

Active member
For 12 years now UW has had a HC that came up through the defensive side of football and were defensively minded HC's. That has given us generally decent defensive teams but except for the Josh Allen tenure from lousy to horrible offenses. Even during Josh Allen's tenure Craig Bohl tried to reign in Josh Allen. What would have happened if they had let Josh Allen more freedom as the QB?

My point to this post is that the HC at UW has been more concerned with stopping scoring instead of scoring more. I would argue that neither Bohl or Sawvel has truly been able to get a handle on how to actually put a creative and successful offense out on the field. Why would anyone expect to see anything different next season as I would be shocked if Sawvel were actually gone for one reason or another.

We have read and heard a lot of lip service about making the offense more productive over the last 12 years and most of it was just BS. There will have to be radical changes to the offensive side of the team imo for a productive offense to actually be put on the field next season.

Is Bouknight the guy to make that happen? What do you guys think?
 
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I’m not sure Jovon has had a fair shot at OC with the quarterback he’s had to roll with. An interesting fact is that for the past 12 years, only 3 times has the starting quarterback been the starter the whole season. Now a couple of times it was due to injuries (Allen & Peasley), but every other year it was because of ineffective play. Just by that alone means that since DC, we haven’t recruited a quality quarterback more than once with high school players and once through transfer portal. I think Bohl controlled all aspects of his staff, and basically made his OC’s run a vanilla offense because it worked at NDSU. Sawvel seems to let his assistants run their own thing, but hasn’t hired an offensive staff that can do much with a bad quarterback. He’ll get one more year. Whatever decisions he makes with offensive staff will make or break his tenure at Wyoming.
 
The Offense looks just like it did when he was at Marshall. I want Jovon to be successful at Wyoming but that O looks just like the Marshall days and when they couldn't score points.

Now how Tripodi has a job is beyond me. His OL has always been terrible and Peasley covered for him by being able to run out of plays. I have never seen an OL get pushed around like his with ZERO development. He is the new Mike Grant just getting paid as charity at this point. Can UW claim that on taxes?

I said game two the OL was an issue and they should move Luke Sandy in at RG and move Barnett (best OL player and has had a great season) out to RT. Davies had a rating of PFF grade of 9.9 when they brought Jenkins in after....5 games. It took 5 games to move Davies out of LT to RT and then replace him. This weekend they finally brought set the lineup of Johnsen King Walsh Sandy and Barnett and moved down the field better.

The coaching staff kept saying they didn't want to do it but now it is too late. They are way too loyal to players and keep thinking they are magically going figure it out. Also tired of players saying how hard the practice...that is bullshit. The OL was getting pushed 2-3 yards backwards on running plays. Some players may practice hard but it is clear others don't but hey keep throwing big NIL money at QBs
 
We should never hire a first time head coach again.

Since we don't have a ton of nil things to juggle maybe we can convince Chip to right the WYO ship, lol.
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
We should never hire a first time head coach again.

Since we don't have a ton of nil things to juggle maybe we can convince Chip to right the WYO ship, lol.
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It's kind of ironic you mention Chip Kelly and never hiring a first time head coach in the same post. Chip Kelly was the Jay Sawvel of Oregon. A coordinator elevated to first time head coach for "continuity". Obviously Oregon had a much different outcome with Chip Kelly than we had with Jay Sawvel, but it does work sometimes to elevate internally.

I'm sure it was mostly tongue in cheek, but Chip will likely head back to Ohio State as their OC. Maybe Cal can entice him to take over their program? I'm not sure why he keeps trying the NFL - college football is clearly his game.
 
TheRealUW said:
It's kind of ironic you mention Chip Kelly and never hiring a first time head coach in the same post. Chip Kelly was the Jay Sawvel of Oregon. A coordinator elevated to first time head coach for "continuity". Obviously Oregon had a much different outcome with Chip Kelly than we had with Jay Sawvel, but it does work sometimes to elevate internally.

I'm sure it was mostly tongue in cheek, but Chip will likely head back to Ohio State as their OC. Maybe Cal can entice him to take over their program? I'm not sure why he keeps trying the NFL - college football is clearly his game.
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Definitely tongue in cheek. Oregon has advantages that allow 1st timers to learn and be successful. We don't. I think you need someone that has their culture, experience running a program, and a good network for coordinators. Obviously they all won't work out but I think odds are better in that group vs 1st timers for the WYO job.
 
Wyoming is a program that suffers greatly from the ripple effect.

Make a bad hire, live with it 3-5 years and then hire the next. Take another 2 years to get a glimmer of hope or find out the hire was another promising disappointment. When we have made the hot hire (Akers, Dye, Erickson) we usually have had players in the system to work with. Now that the portal is present the better players are likely to leave and follow the coach (just like Sanders from Jacksonville).

Different era but I befriended an older guy (deceased) a few years ago who was recruited by Devaney. He said he had never heard of Laramie before and didn’t know where Wyoming was. Leaving the city was going to be a tough decision but he believed in the program. Devaney sold him on being part of a successful program. He didn’t play much as a backup OL (injuries) but said he ultimately enjoyed Laramie because the program was sold to him. He also met his wife from Cheyenne which made Laramie even more attractive. His emphasis in discussing what it takes to get recruits to Laramie was having a coach that could sell the program.

I believe Bohl could sell the program but refused to adapt to the trending style of offense. My friend said Devany and then Eaton convinced recruits on both sides of the ball that they would be successful and targeted players with specific attributes for the system they ran. He emphasized the offense was built around the QB. He was adamant that Bohl obviously didn’t want passing to be part of the game plan unless needed or to pull an occasional surprise if the defense was in a vulnerable set so a QB that could run was the preference. He felt that played into the opponent not needing to cover a spread field but keep 7 players to be blocked by 5 negating offensive production.

If Toledo from the MAC can run a successful program where scoring points is a priority so can Wyoming.

Where does Toledo get their coaches?
 
ragtimejoe1 said:
Oregon has advantages that allow 1st timers to learn and be successful. We don't.
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This is so true....we have to have the top talent at the coach position. Like, the best. We don't have structural, economic or any other advantage. It has to be about football ability. We need a coach that can make up for the deficiencies.
 
PorkerPoke said:
Wyoming is a program that suffers greatly from the ripple effect.

Make a bad hire, live with it 3-5 years and then hire the next. Take another 2 years to get a glimmer of hope or find out the hire was another promising disappointment. When we have made the hot hire (Akers, Dye, Erickson) we usually have had players in the system to work with. Now that the portal is present the better players are likely to leave and follow the coach (just like Sanders from Jacksonville).

Different era but I befriended an older guy (deceased) a few years ago who was recruited by Devaney. He said he had never heard of Laramie before and didn’t know where Wyoming was. Leaving the city was going to be a tough decision but he believed in the program. Devaney sold him on being part of a successful program. He didn’t play much as a backup OL (injuries) but said he ultimately enjoyed Laramie because the program was sold to him. He also met his wife from Cheyenne which made Laramie even more attractive. His emphasis in discussing what it takes to get recruits to Laramie was having a coach that could sell the program.

I believe Bohl could sell the program but refused to adapt to the trending style of offense. My friend said Devany and then Eaton convinced recruits on both sides of the ball that they would be successful and targeted players with specific attributes for the system they ran. He emphasized the offense was built around the QB. He was adamant that Bohl obviously didn’t want passing to be part of the game plan unless needed or to pull an occasional surprise if the defense was in a vulnerable set so a QB that could run was the preference. He felt that played into the opponent not needing to cover a spread field but keep 7 players to be blocked by 5 negating offensive production.

If Toledo from the MAC can run a successful program where scoring points is a priority so can Wyoming.

Where does Toledo get their coaches?
Click to expand...

Genuine question to the board... What can Laramie offer right now that others (like Akron) can't?
 
PAPoke said:
Genuine question to the board... What can Laramie offer right now that others (like Akron) can't?
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That is a damning question...It's not that Laramie doesn't have it's charms...but the people who make a difference in college football...players, coaches, and administrators don't seem to be into it.
 
BigHorn said:
For 12 years now UW has had a HC that came up through the defensive side of football and were defensively minded HC's. That has given us generally decent defensive teams but except for the Josh Allen tenure from lousy to horrible offenses. Even during Josh Allen's tenure Craig Bohl tried to reign in Josh Allen. What would have happened if they had let Josh Allen more freedom as the QB?

My point to this post is that the HC at UW has been more concerned with stopping scoring instead of scoring more. I would argue that neither Bohl or Sawvel has truly been able to get a handle on how to actually put a creative and successful offense out on the field. Why would anyone expect to see anything different next season as I would be shocked if Sawvel were actually gone for one reason or another.

We have read and heard a lot of lip service about making the offense more productive over the last 12 years and most of it was just BS. There will have to be radical changes to the offensive side of the team imo for a productive offense to actually be put on the field next season.

Is Bouknight the guy to make that happen? What do you guys think?
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I think Bouknight needs a little more experience. But more to the point is Coach Bohl. Like everyone else, I was happy he came to Wyoming but that changed a year or two in. I think we find ourselves in this mess is Bohl's hires, attitude. He held back Vigen to the point that fans blamed him for the offense. He made two good hires and quickly left for greener pastures. The others have been barely average. He nearly dared Cody Tucker to question the office so he could ban him from the press conferences. With Bohl it was always 1950s offense, and whatever you do, don't pass more than 12-15 times a game. Bohl's darling Svoboda, apparently, never played a down in JC, as was reported in another forum.
 
PAPoke said:
Genuine question to the board... What can Laramie offer right now that others (like Akron) can't?
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People that care about the local football team and will attend a game . Also a real campus.

Akron doesn’t belong in FBS (and probably not even FCS) to be honest. You won’t meet a single ‘Akron’ fan. They don’t exist. Go to Akron and you will meet plenty of Ohio State fans though. Also - Akron is a commuter school (few that go there would actually dare to live near the campus).
 
PAPoke said:
Genuine question to the board... What can Laramie offer right now that others (like Akron) can't?
Click to expand...
OrediggerPoke said:
People that care about the local football team and will attend a game . Also a real campus.

Akron doesn’t belong in FBS (and probably not even FCS) to be honest. You won’t meet a single ‘Akron’ fan. They don’t exist. Go to Akron and you will meet plenty of Ohio State fans though. Also - Akron is a commuter school (few that go there would actually dare to live near the campus).
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Went to the Akron game. Oredigger is spot on. Akron has about 5,000 fans who pay attention on a routine basis. And - there is definitely a lot of tough housing surrounding the stadium reflective of the “rust belt” label.

Talk about mismanagement, one could make a case that Burman is a great AD compared to historical Akron.

By the way - that 10 point shutout win was all I needed to cancel any plans to attend a game in Laramie this year.
 
PorkerPoke said:
Went to the Akron game. Oredigger is spot on. Akron has about 5,000 fans who pay attention on a routine basis. And - there is definitely a lot of tough housing surrounding the stadium reflective of the “rust belt” label.

Talk about mismanagement, one could make a case that Burman is a great AD compared to historical Akron.

By the way - that 10 point shutout win was all I needed to cancel any plans to attend a game in Laramie this year.
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I used to travel to Akron routinely for work. Probably my least favorite area in the country. The weather is also awful (no sun for months straight, biting cold in the winter and gross humid hot in the summer with no
breeze). Can’t say how many times I was offered drugs there. Always had to be aware of the surroundings. Only positives i can say about the place is that the pro football hall of fame is nearby and the river doesn’t catch fire anymore.
 
OrediggerPoke said:
People that care about the local football team and will attend a game . Also a real campus.

Akron doesn’t belong in FBS (and probably not even FCS) to be honest. You won’t meet a single ‘Akron’ fan. They don’t exist. Go to Akron and you will meet plenty of Ohio State fans though. Also - Akron is a commuter school (few that go there would actually dare to live near the campus).
Click to expand...
PorkerPoke said:
Went to the Akron game. Oredigger is spot on. Akron has about 5,000 fans who pay attention on a routine basis. And - there is definitely a lot of tough housing surrounding the stadium reflective of the “rust belt” label.

Talk about mismanagement, one could make a case that Burman is a great AD compared to historical Akron.

By the way - that 10 point shutout win was all I needed to cancel any plans to attend a game in Laramie this year.
Click to expand...
I was probably too pessimistic in my off-the-cuff response to this question from earlier. It's more that the very fact that the question gets asked and responded to seriously is what creates the pessimism. Like...what the hell is going on in Laramie that this where we find ourselves? There are headwinds at a place like Laramie for sure (both literally and metaphorically hehe). But our current leadership is soooo bad that it's hard to tell some of the root causes.

I too agree with OrediggerPoke in the characterization of Laramie vs Akron....but it's a gut-punch to think that the question is being asked.
 
I have always explained to anyone who gets irritated with the idea Laramie is tough to recruit to that you have to start with the typical airline service map. Wyoming is flyover country.

Laramie is in a beautiful setting but unfortunately is cold and windy much of the year. Cheyenne is the nearest “bigger” metro area and not exactly a reason to go there to hang out when you are 18-22. That leaves fort Fudd and Denver as the next option to mingle in your age range. The Laramie selling point is you are about as safe in a public setting as possible with violent crime almost non-existent.

You go to Wyoming as an athlete to play your sport in some nice facilities. You get to travel to conference locations and the OOC spots. You know there is no other competition on game day in the area but with a minimal population, drawing anything over 20,000 is the Wyoming version of game day in Lincoln Nebraska.

The negative is not having leadership that can sell and manage the program. Prospects get excited to be a winner. Sawful said in his press conference yesterday he had to do a major revamp on the offense. Maybe bring in some players who will be given the chance to be a starter. Can he take the Wyoming setting and sell the program to a higher caliber of prospects when he doesn’t have much to offer that’s already in the program? The transfer portal can be a great resource for a quicker improvement.

Will Laramie ever be thought of as a destination to be part of a winning tradition?

Every time in my lifetime it seemed like it was building up with hoops or football the bottom fell out for long term and the rebound from destitution peaked at barely above average before crashing severely again. What defines recruiting to Laramie is little expectation for success. Pursuit of .500 seems to be the primary goal in place of competing for a championship. Failure to compete in the MWC at a .500 or better result are nails in the coffin of disappointment.
 
After reading and sticking to several peer-reviewed publications exploring recruits' decision processes, I've concluded the following:
Tier 1
Obviously NIL is important but more so for top recruits that many g6 teams aren't in the market for anyway. Arch Manning wasn't coming to WYO even if we paid him 500k more than TX, so highest dollar is a bit too simplistic. A high quality recruit might choose WYO over bsu for $500k more. NIL is nuanced and interwoven with other factors, but you obviously need some level of NIL/revenue share to compete with peers if peers also have that.

Athletic program quality and playing opportunity. Coach and program track record and opportunity to compete for a spot right away. Perceived path to nfl or nil is also part of this. Conference prestige can be considered in this but more in the P4 level and between P4 and G6. Within G6, Conference prestige is less important.

Relationship with coaches, team culture, and overall fit. Do they feel comfortable and recieve intrinsic/extrinsic rewards.

Academic reputation, majors, and career prospects beyond football. This still matters to a lot of recruits especially at g6 level.

Tier 2
Financial package (nil group of athletes are different) which includes scholarships and additional needs-based stipends.

Location, distance from home, and campus setting

Tier 3 (more tiebreaker)
Campus environment, social life, and support services. It's important but if tiers 1 and 2 are better at 1 university, the athlete will be more likely to choose that university over another that is only better on Tier 3.
 
My mom grew up in Akron and I've been there frequently. They get 50 inches of rain each year. In the summer, the humidity is 80 %. So you're sweating the second you get out of the shower. Lots of dilapidated old buildings from when the tire makers abandoned Akron and moved south. My cousin (who had to park on the street) had his car broken into about once a month.
Laramie may be rough in the winter, but there are a lot of places that are basically unlivable on a year round basis. I will say one thing for Akron, homes are cheap. My uncle recently sold his home. He sold it for exactly what he paid for it 20 years earlier - and was happy to do so.
 
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