• Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your WyoNation.com experience today!

Food for thought...

kansasCowboy

kansasCowboy

Well-known member
Since everyone is is a frenzy about this year and this coaching staff here is something you can all chew on for a while.

Colorado coach Bill McCartney is dubbed as one of the top coaches at this program: Overall record 93-55-5
I would love to have a coach give us numbers like that. But did you know his first 5 seasons at CU he was a miserable 20-36-1?
That's right:
2-8-1
4-7
1-10 (This is where Wyo fans would be calling for coaches head!!!)
7-5
6-6
After that he had multiple 8,9 and 11 win seasons. And to think what CU would've missed had they hastily gotten rid of Coach McCart?

How about this:
Bill Snyder took over the worst program in College football history. His first four years mustered up an 18-26 record, No bowls only one winning season.
1-10
5-6
7-4
5-6
After that he exploded this program onto the scene. And the rest is a present history. Currently 162-77-1 and going.

Here's another:
Frank Beamer took over at VT and had two mediocre winning seasons in his first 6 years:
2-9
3-8
6-4-1
6-5
5-6
2-8-1
Yep, That's a total record of 24-40-2. No coach posting a record like that would've lasted long at UW right. But patience won out and winning began. Since those bad six years, Beamer has put together a winning way at VT 189-59. Overall VT patience blessed them with 209-99-2 program at this point.

Those just skim the surface of Big name coaches who under our standards at Wyoming would never had made it after their first few years.

Here's a few other names to mull over: Barry Alvarez (Wisc) First six years 32-32-4, 'Maybe George Welsh (Virginia) first five years 24-29-2. Actually his records in those years are quite similar to DC's. If you don't know Virginia football he ended his career at UV going 134-86-3.

Here's one close to home and could very well have been the down fall of Wyoming football. Joe Tiller
His first five years 29-28-1
4-6-1
5-7
8-4
6-6
6-5
And then all of a sudden his team (just like Snyders, McCartneys and Beamers) blows up and goes 10-2. We don't get a bowl, AD doesn't doing anything to help keep Tiller at UW and Wyo loses a coaches who goes to another mediocre school and has success.
DC is in the cusp of these coaches He has the potential to win out and be 23-27 at the end of this season or lose out and be 20-31. Either way, those records seem eerily similar to the others.
Who's to say the pieces have not been put into place for success to begin here as well?
Our recruiting has been far better since Tiller. Our coaching staff has started to take shape, and aside from injuries and having to rely on freshman we've seen success on the field in four years.
7-6 Bowl Win
3-9
8-5 Bowl loss
1-7 (the rest to be determined)
Patience may win out, and winning may start to happen, if fans would let it!
 
You are exactly right. Got to ride this thing out. UW has made the investment, now let the chips fall where they fall
 
So....Dave Christensen = Bill Snyder, Bill McCartney, Frank Beamer, Barry Alvarez? Wow. That's great and all, but its hardly evidence to show CDC will do the same thing. I'm not sure whether firing him is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do, but I highly doubt some grand era is on hand for CDC in the next few seasons based on the resumes of these great coaches.
 
J-Rod said:
So....Dave Christensen = Bill Snyder, Bill McCartney, Frank Beamer, Barry Alvarez? Wow. That's great and all, but its hardly evidence to show CDC will do the same thing. I'm not sure whether firing him is the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do, but I highly doubt some grand era is on hand for CDC in the next few seasons based on the resumes of these great coaches.
Click to expand...

That's the attitude I'm talking about right there J-Rod! Bill Snyder was a nobody when he got the job at KSU. Frank Beamer was an upand coming coordinator...Sound familiar?
You know, I never said he would be the same or have the same record, but do you know? Do you know any better than me?

Your attitude is exactly why we can't keep coaches.
If we fire this guy without giving him a chance and he goes and has success elsewhere you will definitely feel like this guy looks :oops:

What I really think is the case is when we have an up and coming coach we give in way too soon.
 
kansasCowboy said:
That's the attitude I'm talking about right there J-Rod! Bill Snyder was a nobody when he got the job at KSU. Frank Beamer was an upand coming coordinator...Sound familiar?
You know, I never said he would be the same or have the same record, but do you know? Do you know any better than me?

Your attitude is exactly why we can't keep coaches.
If we fire this guy without giving him a chance and he goes and has success elsewhere you will definitely feel like this guy looks :oops:

What I really think is the case is when we have an up and coming coach we give in way too soon.
Click to expand...
LOL whaat? I just don't understand the logic behind this. CDC could pan out past 2012, because those 4 coaches started out rough yet succeeded? That's what you're insinuating. That's like saying I could one day be President because both Obama and I were born on Oahu. :lol: Not the best example ever.....

CDC does have one trend going in his favor.....his team seems to lack consistency big time. When they're expected to suck, they surprise. When they're expected to perform at a higher level, they bomb big time.....if that cycle continues...

2009 - 7-6
2010 - 3-9
2011 - 8-5
2012 - 1-7 (to this point, could get slightly better...or a lot worse)
2013 - ???? (winning season?)

I don't know.....all I know is, with Dave Christensen football teams....if they can't get turnovers, they lose. A lot. All comes down to defense.
 
So, all those guys got on-the-job-training. Took 'em five years to learn. Then they figured it out and started winning. Does Wyoming want to be one of those "head coach training" schools? You decide.
 
Adv8RU12 said:
So, all those guys got on-the-job-training. Took 'em five years to learn. Then they figured it out and started winning. Does Wyoming want to be one of those "head coach training" schools? You decide.
Click to expand...
Sure, why not, it isn't like the other way works.
 
Here's some food for thought...

What is the percentage of coaches that have crappy or average records their first 4 years that dont go on to become Bill Snyder, Frank Beamer, etc...? approx 95% would be my guess, but don't let statistics skew your reasoning

Here is some work for you kansascowboy...why don't you go back and look at the attrition rate of all of those coaches you mention in their first 4 years? How many of those coaches had a 2 year starting QB leave the program, while he was still the starter!?

"kansascowboy" has shown that he has an emotional attachment to dave christensen. His opinion is skewed and that needs to be taken into account. The fact of the matter is that (1) dc hasn't shown the ability to field any sort of defense, (2) he consistently has a high attrition rate and consistently shifts blame on others or to the constant "youth" of the team; (3) he has shown that he does not have the ability to control his emotions and act like a head coach of a d1 program; and (4) and most importantly our recruiting is going to take an extremely dramatic hit if we aren't pro-active.

I'm on record for saying that DC can recruit skill position talent and can coach offense. I'm on record for saying that no way we fire DC, that is until his extremely embarassing rant. The rant was a game changer and cannot simply be ignored. DC has made plenty of money off the state of wyoming, so you will be fine kansascowboy and don't have to feel sorry for poor dc. I'm sorry, dc had his chance and he embarassed the team, the university and the state.

We have Brett Smith. QBs like him do not come around very often. We have the potential to be a good team; but I strongly doubt that we will realize that with dc as the head man. If we can have a widely respected coach like Tiller step in and oversee the program, I honestly think the potential is there for something special. Joe Tiller would be a game changer. The donations and interest in the football program would take off. The recruiting would be saved as opposing coaches could not use the dc rant against us. In this rapidly changing environment of college football, we need to make a statement now!
 
This is good work and very compelling argument. With the exception of Tiller, those coaches were at "big time" schools. Better recruiting pool to work from than Wyoming. Something DC dreams of. All those coaches were fully committed to the program and living the dream job. This is the problem with DC. We all know he is using Wyoming as a stepping stone. Look at coach Pete at Boise and Calhoun at Air Force. Both are fully committed to the fans and school which results in their success. They are not looking to move on and willing to work with what they have. We really need to find that coach that wants to be here.
 
kansasCowboy said:
Since everyone is is a frenzy about this year and this coaching staff here is something you can all chew on for a while.

Colorado coach Bill McCartney is dubbed as one of the top coaches at this program: Overall record 93-55-5
I would love to have a coach give us numbers like that. But did you know his first 5 seasons at CU he was a miserable 20-36-1?
That's right:
2-8-1
4-7
1-10 (This is where Wyo fans would be calling for coaches head!!!)
7-5
6-6
After that he had multiple 8,9 and 11 win seasons. And to think what CU would've missed had they hastily gotten rid of Coach McCart?

How about this:
Bill Snyder took over the worst program in College football history. His first four years mustered up an 18-26 record, No bowls only one winning season.
1-10
5-6
7-4
5-6
After that he exploded this program onto the scene. And the rest is a present history. Currently 162-77-1 and going.

Here's another:
Frank Beamer took over at VT and had two mediocre winning seasons in his first 6 years:
2-9
3-8
6-4-1
6-5
5-6
2-8-1
Yep, That's a total record of 24-40-2. No coach posting a record like that would've lasted long at UW right. But patience won out and winning began. Since those bad six years, Beamer has put together a winning way at VT 189-59. Overall VT patience blessed them with 209-99-2 program at this point.

Those just skim the surface of Big name coaches who under our standards at Wyoming would never had made it after their first few years.

Here's a few other names to mull over: Barry Alvarez (Wisc) First six years 32-32-4, 'Maybe George Welsh (Virginia) first five years 24-29-2. Actually his records in those years are quite similar to DC's. If you don't know Virginia football he ended his career at UV going 134-86-3.

Here's one close to home and could very well have been the down fall of Wyoming football. Joe Tiller
His first five years 29-28-1
4-6-1
5-7
8-4
6-6
6-5
And then all of a sudden his team (just like Snyders, McCartneys and Beamers) blows up and goes 10-2. We don't get a bowl, AD doesn't doing anything to help keep Tiller at UW and Wyo loses a coaches who goes to another mediocre school and has success.
DC is in the cusp of these coaches He has the potential to win out and be 23-27 at the end of this season or lose out and be 20-31. Either way, those records seem eerily similar to the others.
Who's to say the pieces have not been put into place for success to begin here as well?
Our recruiting has been far better since Tiller. Our coaching staff has started to take shape, and aside from injuries and having to rely on freshman we've seen success on the field in four years.
7-6 Bowl Win
3-9
8-5 Bowl loss
1-7 (the rest to be determined)
Patience may win out, and winning may start to happen, if fans would let it!
Click to expand...

OK now I get it! You have to stink your first few years to become a Hall of Famer. Got it. Somebody better go over to the Ohio State board and tell Urban Meyer what he is doing in his first year at Ohio State is not the path to go down. Same goes with Kyle Flood at Rutgers. What losers! I mean winners! I mean...I'm confused.
 
Adv8RU12 said:
So, all those guys got on-the-job-training. Took 'em five years to learn. Then they figured it out and started winning. Does Wyoming want to be one of those "head coach training" schools? You decide.
Click to expand...

They also have more things going for them CDC will never have, Money and Boosters Wyoming will never have. Those alone can eventually turn losing seasons around. CDC has to do it all on his own he doesn't have a way to get extra money in the state.

5 Years from now Wyoming will be putting no more into Wyoming sports than they did 5 years ago. Like Wyoming moves in 10 year spans for big changes and you can't really deny that so no coach is going to be here for 10 years when the first 5 are lost years and there is nothing to gain in the next 5.

If we were a bigger school or at least a school that actually put proper money into the sport I would agree 100% absolutely. If a New President brings in a new AD that is passionate about sports I might change my mind a bit but under the current circumstances I just don't see it happening.

But I do understand where you are coming from and hope that some day we are in that position but it's going to require new people at the University not just a coaching staff.

My $0.02
 
OrediggerPoke said:
Here's some food for thought...

What is the percentage of coaches that have crappy or average records their first 4 years that dont go on to become Bill Snyder, Frank Beamer, etc...? approx 95% would be my guess, but don't let statistics skew your reasoning

Here is some work for you kansascowboy...why don't you go back and look at the attrition rate of all of those coaches you mention in their first 4 years? How many of those coaches had a 2 year starting QB leave the program, while he was still the starter!?

"kansascowboy" has shown that he has an emotional attachment to dave christensen. His opinion is skewed and that needs to be taken into account. The fact of the matter is that (1) dc hasn't shown the ability to field any sort of defense, (2) he consistently has a high attrition rate and consistently shifts blame on others or to the constant "youth" of the team; (3) he has shown that he does not have the ability to control his emotions and act like a head coach of a d1 program; and (4) and most importantly our recruiting is going to take an extremely dramatic hit if we aren't pro-active.

I'm on record for saying that DC can recruit skill position talent and can coach offense. I'm on record for saying that no way we fire DC, that is until his extremely embarassing rant. The rant was a game changer and cannot simply be ignored. DC has made plenty of money off the state of wyoming, so you will be fine kansascowboy and don't have to feel sorry for poor dc. I'm sorry, dc had his chance and he embarassed the team, the university and the state.

We have Brett Smith. QBs like him do not come around very often. We have the potential to be a good team; but I strongly doubt that we will realize that with dc as the head man. If we can have a widely respected coach like Tiller step in and oversee the program, I honestly think the potential is there for something special. Joe Tiller would be a game changer. The donations and interest in the football program would take off. The recruiting would be saved as opposing coaches could not use the dc rant against us. In this rapidly changing environment of college football, we need to make a statement now!
Click to expand...

First off my friend, I have no emotional attachment to DC. I like the guy and think he is a good coach and I have respect for him. So I would appreciate if you and a few others would refrain from labeling me.
On top of that a few years back I was saying the same thing about Glenn. I thought he had the potential, but he began to lose my support near the end when he decided to "love" on his team instead of coach them. Then we had awkward moments with no recruiting and playing four QB's in one game and so on and so forth. I was all for him as well. But no emotional attachment.
Right now the fan base is at about 50/50 on DC's rant. Some like it and others don't. It's their opinion, as well as your's and amazingly I have mine too.
Which all this leads me to your, "If we have a widely respected coach like Tiller" comment. You do realize Tiller was nothing more than an up and comer his self at Wyo, he was not widely respected for anything. He was a coordinator. No other head coaching experience. So I fail to see where you are going with this other than making your opinion personal and in doing so trying to demean me and my opinion in the process. Thanks for the respect. You're a great guy!
 
23handicap said:
This is good work and very compelling argument. With the exception of Tiller, those coaches were at "big time" schools. Better recruiting pool to work from than Wyoming. Something DC dreams of. All those coaches were fully committed to the program and living the dream job. This is the problem with DC. We all know he is using Wyoming as a stepping stone. Look at coach Pete at Boise and Calhoun at Air Force. Both are fully committed to the fans and school which results in their success. They are not looking to move on and willing to work with what they have. We really need to find that coach that wants to be here.
Click to expand...


You do realize that when Snyder took over at KSU, Wyo was quite a few steps above KSU. KSU was known for nothing but losing. Snyder is the only coach to build KSU to what it is today. Back then it was nothing close to a "big time" school.
 
SDPokeFan said:
kansasCowboy said:
Since everyone is is a frenzy about this year and this coaching staff here is something you can all chew on for a while.

Colorado coach Bill McCartney is dubbed as one of the top coaches at this program: Overall record 93-55-5
I would love to have a coach give us numbers like that. But did you know his first 5 seasons at CU he was a miserable 20-36-1?
That's right:
2-8-1
4-7
1-10 (This is where Wyo fans would be calling for coaches head!!!)
7-5
6-6
After that he had multiple 8,9 and 11 win seasons. And to think what CU would've missed had they hastily gotten rid of Coach McCart?

How about this:
Bill Snyder took over the worst program in College football history. His first four years mustered up an 18-26 record, No bowls only one winning season.
1-10
5-6
7-4
5-6
After that he exploded this program onto the scene. And the rest is a present history. Currently 162-77-1 and going.

Here's another:
Frank Beamer took over at VT and had two mediocre winning seasons in his first 6 years:
2-9
3-8
6-4-1
6-5
5-6
2-8-1
Yep, That's a total record of 24-40-2. No coach posting a record like that would've lasted long at UW right. But patience won out and winning began. Since those bad six years, Beamer has put together a winning way at VT 189-59. Overall VT patience blessed them with 209-99-2 program at this point.

Those just skim the surface of Big name coaches who under our standards at Wyoming would never had made it after their first few years.

Here's a few other names to mull over: Barry Alvarez (Wisc) First six years 32-32-4, 'Maybe George Welsh (Virginia) first five years 24-29-2. Actually his records in those years are quite similar to DC's. If you don't know Virginia football he ended his career at UV going 134-86-3.

Here's one close to home and could very well have been the down fall of Wyoming football. Joe Tiller
His first five years 29-28-1
4-6-1
5-7
8-4
6-6
6-5
And then all of a sudden his team (just like Snyders, McCartneys and Beamers) blows up and goes 10-2. We don't get a bowl, AD doesn't doing anything to help keep Tiller at UW and Wyo loses a coaches who goes to another mediocre school and has success.
DC is in the cusp of these coaches He has the potential to win out and be 23-27 at the end of this season or lose out and be 20-31. Either way, those records seem eerily similar to the others.
Who's to say the pieces have not been put into place for success to begin here as well?
Our recruiting has been far better since Tiller. Our coaching staff has started to take shape, and aside from injuries and having to rely on freshman we've seen success on the field in four years.
7-6 Bowl Win
3-9
8-5 Bowl loss
1-7 (the rest to be determined)
Patience may win out, and winning may start to happen, if fans would let it!
Click to expand...

OK now I get it! You have to stink your first few years to become a Hall of Famer. Got it. Somebody better go over to the Ohio State board and tell Urban Meyer what he is doing in his first year at Ohio State is not the path to go down. Same goes with Kyle Flood at Rutgers. What losers! I mean winners! I mean...I'm confused.
Click to expand...

You really are dumb aren't you? Sorry, I couldn't help myself. All I'm saying is their are coaches who have started off bad and were able to turn things around and have a great career. I know their are coaches who start off by winning and continue to win throughout their career, but not all programs are set up to succeed like OSU or Alabama or Texas and so on. If you are lucky to have a big fan base and recruits want to play more for the school than they do the coach or even both, you are going to win easy. Wyoming, KSU and other schools are not and were not capable of this.
You need to use your Noggin. I know it only thinks on one side of the brain, but you need to think with both. It will totally allow you to see both points.
 
Wyo2dal said:
Adv8RU12 said:
So, all those guys got on-the-job-training. Took 'em five years to learn. Then they figured it out and started winning. Does Wyoming want to be one of those "head coach training" schools? You decide.
Click to expand...

They also have more things going for them CDC will never have, Money and Boosters Wyoming will never have. Those alone can eventually turn losing seasons around. CDC has to do it all on his own he doesn't have a way to get extra money in the state.

5 Years from now Wyoming will be putting no more into Wyoming sports than they did 5 years ago. Like Wyoming moves in 10 year spans for big changes and you can't really deny that so no coach is going to be here for 10 years when the first 5 are lost years and there is nothing to gain in the next 5.

If we were a bigger school or at least a school that actually put proper money into the sport I would agree 100% absolutely. If a New President brings in a new AD that is passionate about sports I might change my mind a bit but under the current circumstances I just don't see it happening.

But I do understand where you are coming from and hope that some day we are in that position but it's going to require new people at the University not just a coaching staff.

My $0.02
Click to expand...


See, I appreciate this. A true opinion without acting like a dumbace! Thanks 2Dal.
 
Everything aside, losing makes us all grumpy and argumentative...

Im just leaving for Laramie and let's Go Pokes! Because one thing we can all agree on and that is BEAT THE SHEEP!!!
 
kansasCowboy said:
Patience may win out, and winning may start to happen, if fans would let it!
Click to expand...

I like how all kansas cowboy said was lets have some patience and people jump down his throat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top