Fire Vigen

[OrediggerPoke]

I thought he had a good gameplan the first game with a 1 dimensional offense. Love Chambers but so far doesn't have touch or accuracy to really threaten. 1 dimensional offense is hard to coordinate.

Honestly, at this point, I do think we need at least a QB coach. I'm not trying to be hard on Vigen, but I don't think the QBs develop under his tuelidge.

With that said, he didn't do that bad as OC with the limitations he was dealing with.

Good win, nonetheless.

To play the devil's advocate here, Carson Wentz and Josh Allen would disagree with you.

Their QB coaches, and NFL coaches, would disagree with you.

Vigen was the QB coach for both of them, unless you are referring to their NFL QB coach, but it doesn't seem like that is what you meant.

Are people really contending that Josh did not progress individually in college?? The team was not great his last year here but he was an individual force...unlike his earlier years.

It's blind hate for Vigen. No one will acknowledge the improved line play over the past few years. The focus is on the negative despite the fact that the team is winning games. From what I am watching, this team is not far off from being a damn good ball control offense. I've been critical of Vigen over the years as well but he deserves some credit. This isn't some luck that he developed Jensen, Wentz and Allen. This isn't some luck that the offensive line pushes around an SEC defensive line.

 

[LanderPoke]

I thought he had a good gameplan the first game with a 1 dimensional offense. Love Chambers but so far doesn't have touch or accuracy to really threaten. 1 dimensional offense is hard to coordinate.

Honestly, at this point, I do think we need at least a QB coach. I'm not trying to be hard on Vigen, but I don't think the QBs develop under his tuelidge.

With that said, he didn't do that bad as OC with the limitations he was dealing with.

Good win, nonetheless.

To play the devil's advocate here, Carson Wentz and Josh Allen would disagree with you.

Their QB coaches, and NFL coaches, would disagree with you.

Vigen was the QB coach for both of them, unless you are referring to their NFL QB coach, but it doesn't seem like that is what you meant.

Are people really contending that Josh did not progress individually in college?? The team was not great his last year here but he was an individual force...unlike his earlier years.

It's blind hate for Vigen. No one will acknowledge the improved line play over the past few years. The focus is on the negative despite the fact that the team is winning games. From what I am watching, this team is not far off from being a damn good ball control offense. I've been critical of Vigen over the years as well but he deserves some credit. This isn't some luck that he developed Jensen, Wentz and Allen. This isn't some luck that the offensive line pushes around an SEC defensive line.

Since when did Vigen coach the O line? We have a new OL coach, Bart Miller, that seems to be well liked, but it's been two games so I'll reserve judgement on the O line's performance for now. And I missed the part where we pushed around a Sun Belt D line on Saturday. Oh, that didn't happen. If you like having offenses hold us back year after year and constantly be the worst in the conference then Vigen is your man. It's insanity

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I thought he had a good gameplan the first game with a 1 dimensional offense. Love Chambers but so far doesn't have touch or accuracy to really threaten. 1 dimensional offense is hard to coordinate.

Honestly, at this point, I do think we need at least a QB coach. I'm not trying to be hard on Vigen, but I don't think the QBs develop under his tuelidge.

With that said, he didn't do that bad as OC with the limitations he was dealing with.

Good win, nonetheless.

To play the devil's advocate here, Carson Wentz and Josh Allen would disagree with you.

Their QB coaches, and NFL coaches, would disagree with you.

Vigen was the QB coach for both of them, unless you are referring to their NFL QB coach, but it doesn't seem like that is what you meant.

Are people really contending that Josh did not progress individually in college?? The team was not great his last year here but he was an individual force...unlike his earlier years.

It's blind hate for Vigen. No one will acknowledge the improved line play over the past few years. The focus is on the negative despite the fact that the team is winning games. From what I am watching, this team is not far off from being a damn good ball control offense. I've been critical of Vigen over the years as well but he deserves some credit. This isn't some luck that he developed Jensen, Wentz and Allen. This isn't some luck that the offensive line pushes around an SEC defensive line.

Since when did Vigen coach the O line? We have a new OL coach, Bart Miller, that seems to be well liked, but it's been two games so I'll reserve judgement on the O line's performance for now. And I missed the part where we pushed around a Sun Belt D line on Saturday. Oh, that didn't happen. If you like having offenses hold us back year after year and constantly be the worst in the conference then Vigen is your man. It's insanity

Is the O-line not part of the offense? Does this not fall within the purview of what an offensive coordinator helps oversee?

I look at wins and losses. Since Vigen/Bohl made the change at starting QB late last year, the team hasn't lost. And this group did put together a 9 minute drive late in the game where Texas State was being pushed off the ball regularly. It may have ended with a field goal but that accomplished the game plan....to keep Stitt's offense off of the field and to keep the defense fresh in the heat. That drive was the key to the game IMO.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

If some progress in QB is the only benchmark, then, yeah, Vigen is adequate.

Wentz had throwing mechanic issues and Josh had footwork issues coming out. Most articles about Josh's NFL development are not at all positive regarding his college development.

Identifying talent isn't the same as developing talent. Not blind hatred for Vigen; I actually think he's doing pretty well with a 1 dimensional offense.

 

[307bball]

Isn't it obvious to folks that there is not some mile-high wall between offensive style and defensive numbers? If you are a coach like Mike Leach...you are ok with exposing your defense to more chances by the opposing offense because you are confident that your offense has some sort of advantage that you can exploit. If you are a coach like Craig Bohl, part of your defensive success lies in an offensive style that values time of possession and field position. There is another thread that speculated about Bohl as a HC and Stitt as an OC...That's kind of a fun thought experiment but as soon as you take the good and even great defenses under Bohl and expose them to 25% (this is a guess) more possessions...I expect the defensive numbers become more mundane.

It makes complete sense to me what Bohl is trying to do with the offense that Wyoming is using currently...everything works to grind down and bully the opponent. DC's Wyoming teams tried to turn things into a track meet and run teams out of the stadium. I'm fine with whatever style results in W's...I don't have an emotional attachment to one over the other. Nobody would have been more happy than me to see DC succeed with an unstoppable wide-open attack...but it didn't work. That is not a knock on that style of football...just an observation of DC's implementation of it. Us armchair qb's can at least agree on that.

My questions to the fire Vigen crowd:

1. Do you believe that defensive success is connected to offensive style?
2. Do you prefer wide open, up tempo offensive attacks?
3. Is there a pro-style ball control program out there that does it well?

I want to be clear that I'm a wyoming fan first, as I'm sure the "fire Vigen" crowd is...i'm just trying to understand the dislike.

 

[307bball]

If some progress in QB is the only benchmark, then, yeah, Vigen is adequate.

Wentz had throwing mechanic issues and Josh had footwork issues coming out. Most articles about Josh's NFL development are not at all positive regarding his college development.

Identifying talent isn't the same as developing talent. Not blind hatred for Vigen; I actually think he's doing pretty well with a 1 dimensional offense.

Well..rookie NFL QB's that have some things to work on in the Pro's? Pretty normal if you ask me.

 

[Wyokie]

My questions to the fire Vigen crowd:

1. Do you believe that defensive success is connected to offensive style?
2. Do you prefer wide open, up tempo offensive attacks?
3. Is there a pro-style ball control program out there that does it well?

I want to be clear that I'm a wyoming fan first, as I'm sure the "fire Vigen" crowd is...i'm just trying to understand the dislike.

I just want championships. We hadn't had any since 1988 back when I was in junior high!!!!!! Plus, I miss seeing Wyoming blow teams outta the water. Like Wyoming 61, Utah 18 on Paul Roach's 61st birthday in 1988 OR us destroying Hawaii 66-0 in 1996.

 

[fromolwyoming]

My questions to the fire Vigen crowd:

1. Do you believe that defensive success is connected to offensive style?
2. Do you prefer wide open, up tempo offensive attacks?
3. Is there a pro-style ball control program out there that does it well?

I want to be clear that I'm a wyoming fan first, as I'm sure the "fire Vigen" crowd is...i'm just trying to understand the dislike.

1. It can be.
2. Not necessarily.
3. NFL...

Look, I'm not saying a full on overhaul of the offense. What I AM saying, is if we're going to run, maybe do something more than just straight up the middle for 3/4 of the game. Some outside runs here and there. A screen pass too, helps pull the defense back from being too aggressive.

 

[LanderPoke]

We seem to have plenty of three and outs. And I would actually like to see some TOP numbers before I make a statement. Without looking I bet that we do not dominate TOP and I bet that we lose the field position battle more than we win it.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

If some progress in QB is the only benchmark, then, yeah, Vigen is adequate.

Wentz had throwing mechanic issues and Josh had footwork issues coming out. Most articles about Josh's NFL development are not at all positive regarding his college development.

Identifying talent isn't the same as developing talent. Not blind hatred for Vigen; I actually think he's doing pretty well with a 1 dimensional offense.

Well..rookie NFL QB's that have some things to work on in the Pro's? Pretty normal if you ask me.

Josh was labelled as raw (i.e. not developed) talent. His mechanics largely didn't improve. I can think of at least 2 articles or comments that questioned or pointed out lack of coaching development/Vigen's play calling hindering accuracy.

 

[calpoke25]

We may ground and pound the lesser teams on our schedule but to win championships we’re going to need more from our passing game. We’ve been atrocious on offense 4/5 years with this staff. Just facts. You think we’re going to beat BSU on the blue with this offense?

And Vigen taking credit for Wentz when Wentz threw a grand total of about 4 passes under him is laughable. They can identify QB talent for sure but developing it is something else. Wentz was developed at NDSU under the next staff.

 

[SDPokeFan]

Sooner or late they are going to have to pass the ball. Probably not this weekend, but the day is coming. Having said that, as long as they win I don't care if they pass for two yards in a game.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

These threads are so god damn repetitive.

One side has made their reasons for disliking Vigen clear, the other side has made their reasons for sticking with it clear.

To date, no one has read a post and changed their mind on the matter.

I think at this point people need to either;
a) accept that people have different, unwavering opinions on the matter
or
b) realize that your current method of persuasion isn't getting the job done and should try a new one

 

[fromolwyoming]

These threads are so god damn repetitive.

One side has made their reasons for disliking Vigen clear, the other side has made their reasons for sticking with it clear.

To date, no one has read a post and changed their mind on the matter.

I think at this point people need to either;
a) accept that people have different, unwavering opinions on the matter
or
b) realize that your current method of persuasion isn't getting the job done and should try a new one

 

[LanderPoke]

These threads are so god damn repetitive.

One side has made their reasons for disliking Vigen clear, the other side has made their reasons for sticking with it clear.

To date, no one has read a post and changed their mind on the matter.

I think at this point people need to either;
a) accept that people have different, unwavering opinions on the matter
or
b) realize that your current method of persuasion isn't getting the job done and should try a new one

Ok shut down WyoNation.com no need to have a message board whatsoever. :roll:

 

[stymeman]

Sure wanna see drastic change against a fcs team in Laramie this upcoming weekend and not waiting for the takeaway to get it started, lets see it from start to finish against the Vandals

 

[307bball]

These threads are so god damn repetitive.

One side has made their reasons for disliking Vigen clear, the other side has made their reasons for sticking with it clear.

To date, no one has read a post and changed their mind on the matter.

I think at this point people need to either;
a) accept that people have different, unwavering opinions on the matter
or
b) realize that your current method of persuasion isn't getting the job done and should try a new one

Ok shut down WyoNation.com no need to have a message board whatsoever. :roll:

Your not wrong...I'll never get behind firing coaches for the sake of firing coaches. I just don't think that is what the "fire Vigen" crowd is wanting either. I'm under the assumption that some conversation around the topic is enlightening ... and I love talking cowboy sports.

I would say that i'm just against knee-jerk statements like "fire vigen"....I think it's important to compare like vs like. We can't compare ourselves with football factory schools...heck it pains me to say it but I don't even think it's appropriate to compare ourselves with Boise St or the last 10 years of SDSU. The glory days of the Wyoming football program are over 20 years in our rear-view. If we are going to get back there, it's going to be a step-by-step rebuild of the program culture. I don't know about you but outside of a year and a half stretch under Joe Glen this is the best I've felt about the direction of the program since '96. Maybe Bohl's philosophy wears thin and the pokes regress towards the norm of the last 20 years but at this point we've got a man at the helm that seems to understand the importance of program-level culture.

I want championships as much as the next guy...I just realize that the closest we've been to them since the '80s were under Tiller and under Bohl.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

These threads are so god damn repetitive.

One side has made their reasons for disliking Vigen clear, the other side has made their reasons for sticking with it clear.

To date, no one has read a post and changed their mind on the matter.

I think at this point people need to either;
a) accept that people have different, unwavering opinions on the matter
or
b) realize that your current method of persuasion isn't getting the job done and should try a new one

Ok shut down WyoNation.com no need to have a message board whatsoever. :roll:

Lol, if you not arguing about the same shit on repeat would make the whole message board useless for you...that most definitely proves my point.

 

[LanderPoke]

These threads are so god damn repetitive.

One side has made their reasons for disliking Vigen clear, the other side has made their reasons for sticking with it clear.

To date, no one has read a post and changed their mind on the matter.

I think at this point people need to either;
a) accept that people have different, unwavering opinions on the matter
or
b) realize that your current method of persuasion isn't getting the job done and should try a new one

Ok shut down WyoNation.com no need to have a message board whatsoever. :roll:

Lol, if you not arguing about the same shit on repeat would make the whole message board useless for you...that most definitely proves my point.

First of all, no one is forcing you to read anything. Don't click on the thread if you don't want to read it. Boom, solved your problem for you, Einstein. You complaining about anything that's written here is high comedy.

Secondly, what's the point of a message board for you? It seems that you only post to whine about what others are talking about. Great contribution to the message board.

 

[laxwyo]

Message boards have taught me one thing. Every play call is genius when it works but lacks creativity when it doesn’t. Even landerpoke doesn’t complain about 10 yard runs up the middle.