FIRE EDWARDS

[307bball]

Yep, McClain had two titles to Shyatts tourney championship. I believe he only had two losing seasons as well. If Brandon Ewing doesn't miss consecutive free throws McClain wins a tourney as well. I liked Shyatt but we was overrated, and his last season was a total waste of a top player.

LOL...McClain is NOT a good coach. His heyday at Wyoming coincided with one of the best collection of talent EVER at UW. Once the talent level dipped ....well the results speak for themselves. Look at what Shyatt was able to accomplish with far less talent. I loved the Nance, Cooke, Grabeau, team but talent-wise, the '00-'02 cowboys were wayyy more loaded.

 

[ELKMT]

I would say Nance an Adams were pretty talented. The MW was watered down for the Shyatt years, but that's not my point. Our University doesn't care much about basketball otherwise an AD doesn't get a pass for replacing a coach who can win with a coach like Schroyer.

 

[Poke in New England]

I realize this is the nature of fan forums but man y'all move quick. This went from a serious thread to a troll thread back to a serious thread in four days.

 

[307bball]

For me the proof of a good coach at Wyoming starts with wins and losses but doesn't end there. The product on the floor during McClain's last four years through Heath Schroyer's tenure was borderline unwatchable for me. Shyatt had a better record than that seven year stretch but it's not like he blew it out of the water. It just seemed like he was building to something and his guys were up and down but they bought in to what he was teaching and it showed. College basketball is ultimately decided by a bunch of kids but the good coaches, regardless of how much talent they have, get consistent effort with some sort of overarching strategy. For my money, Larry Shyatt checked those boxes...To be fair, during the early years of McClain when he had more talent than everybody else, his teams even exhibited that toughness. It was only when he was without standouts like Bailey, Davis, Uche, et all, that his lack of a coherent strategy began to hurt. I don't think Edwards has it.

At this point I can't see Edwards getting fired...just hope he learns on the job and recruits top tier talent.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

Yep, McClain had two titles to Shyatts tourney championship. I believe he only had two losing seasons as well. If Brandon Ewing doesn't miss consecutive free throws McClain wins a tourney as well. I liked Shyatt but we was overrated, and his last season was a total waste of a top player.

LOL...McClain is NOT a good coach. His heyday at Wyoming coincided with one of the best collection of talent EVER at UW. Once the talent level dipped ....well the results speak for themselves. Look at what Shyatt was able to accomplish with far less talent. I loved the Nance, Cooke, Grabeau, team but talent-wise, the '00-'02 cowboys were wayyy more loaded.

I would take him over Schroyer and Edwards anyday, everyday....

 

[307bball]

Yep, McClain had two titles to Shyatts tourney championship. I believe he only had two losing seasons as well. If Brandon Ewing doesn't miss consecutive free throws McClain wins a tourney as well. I liked Shyatt but we was overrated, and his last season was a total waste of a top player.

LOL...McClain is NOT a good coach. His heyday at Wyoming coincided with one of the best collection of talent EVER at UW. Once the talent level dipped ....well the results speak for themselves. Look at what Shyatt was able to accomplish with far less talent. I loved the Nance, Cooke, Grabeau, team but talent-wise, the '00-'02 cowboys were wayyy more loaded.

I would take him over Schroyer and Edwards anyday, everyday....

If I had to choose today, I would agree.... Edwards still has time to change that though.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Yep, McClain had two titles to Shyatts tourney championship. I believe he only had two losing seasons as well. If Brandon Ewing doesn't miss consecutive free throws McClain wins a tourney as well. I liked Shyatt but we was overrated, and his last season was a total waste of a top player.

LOL...McClain is NOT a good coach. His heyday at Wyoming coincided with one of the best collection of talent EVER at UW. Once the talent level dipped ....well the results speak for themselves. Look at what Shyatt was able to accomplish with far less talent. I loved the Nance, Cooke, Grabeau, team but talent-wise, the '00-'02 cowboys were wayyy more loaded.

I would take him over Schroyer and Edwards anyday, everyday....

If I had to choose today, I would agree.... Edwards still has time to change that though.

Agree with both comments. I too would pick McClain right now but Edwards has shown an ability to recruit good players, hopefully he becomes at least decent at the Xs and Os side of the game...

 

[Lost Poke]

Let's see where all these former coaches are now, ranked in order of kick-assitude of current job:

1 Shyatt - Assistant @ Mavericks
2 McCLain - Head Coach, U of Illinois - Chicago
3 Schroyer - Assistant @ BYU

Frankly, that's exactly how I'd rank their performance at UW and the market seems to value them the same way.

The problem with the Fresno game is we came out a little lethargic and Fresno didn't. As part of our lethargy, Fresno got 6 steals in the first half and scored on all of them. End of game.

That's not an X's and O's or substitution pattern problem.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Let's see where all these former coaches are now, ranked in order of kick-assitude of current job:

1 Shyatt - Assistant @ Mavericks
2 McCLain - Head Coach, U of Illinois - Chicago
3 Schroyer - Assistant @ BYU

Frankly, that's exactly how I'd rank their performance at UW and the market seems to value them the same way.

The problem with the Fresno game is we came out a little lethargic and Fresno didn't. As part of our lethargy, Fresno got 6 steals in the first half and scored on all of them. End of game.

That's not an X's and O's or substitution pattern problem.

The NBA didnt come calling Papa Shy because of his coaching acumen... He was hired because he had a relationship with Carlisle from his days at Florida.

 

[NowherePoke]

Let's see where all these former coaches are now, ranked in order of kick-assitude of current job:

1 Shyatt - Assistant @ Mavericks
2 McCLain - Head Coach, U of Illinois - Chicago
3 Schroyer - Assistant @ BYU

Frankly, that's exactly how I'd rank their performance at UW and the market seems to value them the same way.

The problem with the Fresno game is we came out a little lethargic and Fresno didn't. As part of our lethargy, Fresno got 6 steals in the first half and scored on all of them. End of game.

That's not an X's and O's or substitution pattern problem.

The NBA didnt come calling Papa Shy because of his coaching acumen... He was hired because he had a relationship with Carlisle from his days at Florida.

Why do you think Carlisle sought him out? It wasn't like they ever worked together or anything. They had met previously (Carlisle had visited Florida when Shyatt was on Donovan's staff to research some things they were doing, per articles at the time), but it wasn't like they were super tight from anything I have read.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Let's see where all these former coaches are now, ranked in order of kick-assitude of current job:

1 Shyatt - Assistant @ Mavericks
2 McCLain - Head Coach, U of Illinois - Chicago
3 Schroyer - Assistant @ BYU

Frankly, that's exactly how I'd rank their performance at UW and the market seems to value them the same way.

The problem with the Fresno game is we came out a little lethargic and Fresno didn't. As part of our lethargy, Fresno got 6 steals in the first half and scored on all of them. End of game.

That's not an X's and O's or substitution pattern problem.

The NBA didnt come calling Papa Shy because of his coaching acumen... He was hired because he had a relationship with Carlisle from his days at Florida.

Why do you think Carlisle sought him out? It wasn't like they ever worked together or anything. They had met previously (Carlisle had visited Florida when Shyatt was on Donovan's staff to research some things they were doing, per articles at the time), but it wasn't like they were super tight from anything I have read.

Carlisle actually poached a number of Donovans staff over the years. Seems like Carlisle has an interest in Donovan's disciples. He liked the system Shyatt coached in and implemented AND knew him from past dealings.

 

[bladerunnr]

For me the proof of a good coach at Wyoming starts with wins and losses but doesn't end there. The product on the floor during McClain's last four years through Heath Schroyer's tenure was borderline unwatchable for me. Shyatt had a better record than that seven year stretch but it's not like he blew it out of the water. It just seemed like he was building to something and his guys were up and down but they bought in to what he was teaching and it showed. College basketball is ultimately decided by a bunch of kids but the good coaches, regardless of how much talent they have, get consistent effort with some sort of overarching strategy. For my money, Larry Shyatt checked those boxes...To be fair, during the early years of McClain when he had more talent than everybody else, his teams even exhibited that toughness. It was only when he was without standouts like Bailey, Davis, Uche, et all, that his lack of a coherent strategy began to hurt. I don't think Edwards has it.

At this point I can't see Edwards getting fired...just hope he learns on the job and recruits top tier talent.

That's an interesting take. I wasn't quite in your camp. When McClain brought in Brandon Ewing and Brad Jones, we barely lost the MWC championship game. We also had Justin Williams, who in my mind, was as talented a big man as we ever had at UW. McClains teams really were good rebounding teams. That has all changed since.
I think Shyatt did some great things here. He resurrected a program that Schroyer completely destroyed. But we really weren't a power in the conference except for 1 year. I think Edwards gets a pass through next year. I wish we had one big man who didn't have the physique of a Kenyan distance runner.
Watching the Fresno state game, I was struck with how scrawny we look against a physical team. That has to be addressed. We looked like the 98 lbs. weakling that gets sand kicked in his face.

 

[JimmyDimes]

Yep, McClain had two titles to Shyatts tourney championship. I believe he only had two losing seasons as well. If Brandon Ewing doesn't miss consecutive free throws McClain wins a tourney as well. I liked Shyatt but we was overrated, and his last season was a total waste of a top player.

LOL...McClain is NOT a good coach. His heyday at Wyoming coincided with one of the best collection of talent EVER at UW. Once the talent level dipped ....well the results speak for themselves. Look at what Shyatt was able to accomplish with far less talent. I loved the Nance, Cooke, Grabeau, team but talent-wise, the '00-'02 cowboys were wayyy more loaded.

I would take him over Schroyer and Edwards anyday, everyday....

McClain certainly did let his teams slide. Didn't have a winning conference record or a post season appearance in his last 4 years in Laramie. Great coach.

 

[ELKMT]

Shyatt had two winning seasons in conference play as a head coach. His peak was as an assistant. McClain had four seasons in conference. Not exactly earth shattering.

 

[PorkerPoke]

The empty seats will continue.

Edwards was the hand picked extension of Larry Shyatt on the condition that little Jeremy got to keep his job. A sniff at success here and there followed by disappointments is on the horizon for at least another year. Depending on how well any of the returning roster develops, next year could be a tough one. What is coming back next year either cannot play much this year because they are obviously a weak D1 level player or they are redshirting. The question is - will next year bring a completely different level of play once the soft Shyatt roster has finally moved on? My guess is that it will be at least two years before we know for sure what the Edwards version of talent is.

Face it - the Wyoming basketball program has had exactly 1 winning season in the MWC since 2003. The 2014-15 team managed an 11-7 MWC record. The program is 151-183 to date in the MWC. That defines the typical outcome at 8-10 every year. Simple fact is that Wyoming LOSES more than it wins on a consistent basis.

ONLY McClain has managed a winning MWC record. Edwards MIGHT get there after 2 seasons if the team finishes strong this year.

Wyoming fans will not buy into a program that demonstrates consistent mediocrity. The number of empty seats are not as much a product of TV or other visual game access, it is simply the outcome of losing more than winning. Winning is fun. Winning generates excitement. Winning is not getting close to a winning record. Winning means more wins than losses. What games mean the most as the season nears tournament time - beating Eastern Washington in OT or winning more MWC games than losing?

We can debate coaches and what they have done for the program, but overall the records show that Wyoming has not had a winner for a long time!

 

[CowboyNV]

The empty seats will continue.

Edwards was the hand picked extension of Larry Shyatt on the condition that little Jeremy got to keep his job. A sniff at success here and there followed by disappointments is on the horizon for at least another year. Depending on how well any of the returning roster develops, next year could be a tough one. What is coming back next year either cannot play much this year because they are obviously a weak D1 level player or they are redshirting. The question is - will next year bring a completely different level of play once the soft Shyatt roster has finally moved on? My guess is that it will be at least two years before we know for sure what the Edwards version of talent is.

Face it - the Wyoming basketball program has had exactly 1 winning season in the MWC since 2003. The 2014-15 team managed an 11-7 MWC record. The program is 151-183 to date in the MWC. That defines the typical outcome at 8-10 every year. Simple fact is that Wyoming LOSES more than it wins on a consistent basis.

ONLY McClain has managed a winning MWC record. Edwards MIGHT get there after 2 seasons if the team finishes strong this year.

Wyoming fans will not buy into a program that demonstrates consistent mediocrity. The number of empty seats are not as much a product of TV or other visual game access, it is simply the outcome of losing more than winning. Winning is fun. Winning generates excitement. Winning is not getting close to a winning record. Winning means more wins than losses. What games mean the most as the season nears tournament time - beating Eastern Washington in OT or winning more MWC games than losing?

We can debate coaches and what they have done for the program, but overall the records show that Wyoming has not had a winner for a long time!

Great post. I still scratch my head with all of the love for Shyatt. This little exercise is going to look at conference coaching records.

Shyatt's stint at Clemson resulted in a 20-60 conference record. In the MWC, he ended up with a 46-52 record and a .469 winning percentage.

Benny Dees had a conference record of 47-51 for a .480 winning percentage.

McClain had a conference record of 73-71 and a winning percentage of .507.

Heath, well we all remember that debacle, finished his tenure at Wyoming with a 16-41 record and a winning percentage of .281.

Joby Wright was 32-38 for a winning percentage of .457.

When you look at all of those records, one thing jumps out and that is all of those coaches combined for a conference winning percentage of less than 50%, and if that isn't the definition of mediocre, I don't know what is.

You have to go all the way back to Jim Brandenburg for a coach that had a winning product. His conference record was 87-51 and a winning percentage of .630, with 3 conference championships, 1 NIT appearance, 3 NCAA appearances with one trip to the Sweet 16. In those days, the old Field House was always sold out and then, after 1982, the Dome of Doom was packed with howling fans. As you stated, winning puts asses in the seats, and we haven't had a lot of winning since Brandenburg left.

I think Edwards can recruit. Can he coach? Time will tell, but if his team finishes strong this year, he could have a conference record above .500 for his two years as head guy. Not great, but definitely not something people should believe he should be fired for.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

Yep, McClain had two titles to Shyatts tourney championship. I believe he only had two losing seasons as well. If Brandon Ewing doesn't miss consecutive free throws McClain wins a tourney as well. I liked Shyatt but we was overrated, and his last season was a total waste of a top player.

LOL...McClain is NOT a good coach. His heyday at Wyoming coincided with one of the best collection of talent EVER at UW. Once the talent level dipped ....well the results speak for themselves. Look at what Shyatt was able to accomplish with far less talent. I loved the Nance, Cooke, Grabeau, team but talent-wise, the '00-'02 cowboys were wayyy more loaded.

I would take him over Schroyer and Edwards anyday, everyday....

McClain certainly did let his teams slide. Didn't have a winning conference record or a post season appearance in his last 4 years in Laramie. Great coach.

In his second to last year he had us in the MWC tourney final. Should have won the damn thing other than Steve Leven losing his mind and a couple of missed free throws. Williams, Ewing and Jones were a great group. One thing about McClain's teams, they played hard and competed. They certainly were not as soft as this group. I remember all the complaints that all we did was play street ball. Just happens to be the same 5 out or 4 motion offense that we play now. Burman screwed us in giving us Schroyer. McClain may not have been the best coach, but he was miles above Schroyer. If you are going to replace a coach that had the only MWC titles for UW, then maybe you should go get a proven commodity, not your buddy.

 

[Lost Poke]

In his second to last year he had us in the MWC tourney final. Should have won the damn thing other than Steve Leven losing his mind and a couple of missed free throws. Williams, Ewing and Jones were a great group. One thing about McClain's teams, they played hard and competed. They certainly were not as soft as this group.

That year the Pokes lost their last 6 games of the conference season. Over the season we lost to Air Force, DU, SMU, Washington State, and Utah (twice) all of whom had losing records. In the tournament we beat Air Force and got lucky that a weak Utah team won their quarterfinal in an upset so we could beat them in the semifinal.

I'm not sure how that qualifies as less "soft" than this year's team.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

In his second to last year he had us in the MWC tourney final. Should have won the damn thing other than Steve Leven losing his mind and a couple of missed free throws. Williams, Ewing and Jones were a great group. One thing about McClain's teams, they played hard and competed. They certainly were not as soft as this group.

That year the Pokes lost their last 6 games of the conference season. Over the season we lost to Air Force, DU, SMU, Washington State, and Utah (twice) all of whom had losing records. In the tournament we beat Air Force and got lucky that a weak Utah team won their quarterfinal in an upset so we could beat them in the semifinal.

I'm not sure how that qualifies as less "soft" than this year's team.

Uh, by the physicality that I witnessed on the floor. We weren't afraid to mix it up in the paint instead of 5 guys just standing around the 3 point line. Didn't say "soft" had anything to do with the wins or losses.

 

[NowherePoke]

Yep, McClain had two titles to Shyatts tourney championship. I believe he only had two losing seasons as well. If Brandon Ewing doesn't miss consecutive free throws McClain wins a tourney as well. I liked Shyatt but we was overrated, and his last season was a total waste of a top player.

LOL...McClain is NOT a good coach. His heyday at Wyoming coincided with one of the best collection of talent EVER at UW. Once the talent level dipped ....well the results speak for themselves. Look at what Shyatt was able to accomplish with far less talent. I loved the Nance, Cooke, Grabeau, team but talent-wise, the '00-'02 cowboys were wayyy more loaded.

I would take him over Schroyer and Edwards anyday, everyday....

McClain certainly did let his teams slide. Didn't have a winning conference record or a post season appearance in his last 4 years in Laramie. Great coach.

In his second to last year he had us in the MWC tourney final. Should have won the damn thing other than Steve Leven losing his mind and a couple of missed free throws. Williams, Ewing and Jones were a great group. One thing about McClain's teams, they played hard and competed. They certainly were not as soft as this group. I remember all the complaints that all we did was play street ball. Just happens to be the same 5 out or 4 motion offense that we play now. Burman screwed us in giving us Schroyer. McClain may not have been the best coach, but he was miles above Schroyer. If you are going to replace a coach that had the only MWC titles for UW, then maybe you should go get a proven commodity, not your buddy.

I don't get the love for the 05-06 team that a few of you guys have. I know they Had a great run in the conference tourney (and it was pretty exciting), but that team was terrible. 5-11 in MWC play, 12-17 or whatever before the MWCT. Beyond the record there was some really bad basketball being played by that team. If anyone thinks this team is inefficient on offense, they should find clips of that team. I just eat back and looked to make sure my memory wasn't deceiving me and holy cow it was even worse than I remembered. That team had an effective FG% of 45.9%. That is worse than any other team I can find, even worse than Heath's teams, and 296th in the country that year. That team turned it over on 24.5% of their possessions. That is ridiculous. There have been complaints about Edwards's teams and they have turned it over between 17 and 18% of the time the last two years. If this year's team turned it over at that rate it would be the 5th worst in the entire country.

It is revisionist history to remember that particular team as anything but awful. This is where McClain really lost the fanbase I think because that team had too much talent (Ewing, Williams, Jones, Leven, Daaron Brown when healthy, Ike Okoye as a Fr., etc.) to be that awful.