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Defensive Line

ProudWYOAlum

ProudWYOAlum

Well-known member
Our defense isn't very good... We know this. Our defensive line is the biggest issue of the whole team. There is zero pressure on any QB. There is zero penetration on any run. We've got guys playing D-line who have been moved around and our tackles are really undersized.

That "goal-line stand" said it all yesterday. SJSU made it look easy. Remember the NM Bowl in 2009? Stopping Ryan Matthews 4 times on the 1 yard line was a loooooooong time & a ton of size/talent on the D-Line ago.

This is a glaring issue that won't be fixed this year or next year.
 
Did you notice Olive being double teamed most of yesterday? Actually, he was being double teams and pushing both OL backwards.. he's a strong dude. He's the DT we've been wanting for a long time.. however, the rest of the DL isn't getting any pressure on the QB, whether it be we drop 7 into coverage or we just simply don't get there.
 
When we rushed 4 and did some blitzing in the first half, we were having success. Then Tormey went away from it and we got sliced and diced. I have never seen coaches make such horrific adjustments...on offense and defense. What else explains our 3rd quarter performance or performance after weather delays? We get worse after our coaches get time with our players.
 
Problematic to have to rely on a freshman to be the savior on D. I don't know. It's amazing we were an 8-4 team with a true freshman Q. We have regressed that much on D.
 
LawPoke said:
When we rushed 4 and did some blitzing in the first half, we were having success. Then Tormey went away from it and we got sliced and diced. I have never seen coaches make such horrific adjustments...on offense and defense. What else explains our 3rd quarter performance or performance after weather delays? We get worse after our coaches get time with our players.
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If you look at all the staff changes, the one constant is the Head Coach. It's been this way since his first season.
 
Yeah, Olive has been solid......the issue is the other guys. Yarbrough and Mertens play hard, but the depth is simply not there.
 
J-Rod said:
Yeah, Olive has been solid......the issue is the other guys. Yarbrough and Mertens play hard, but the depth is simply not there.
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Mertens and Olive are good sized DTs, but most NTs/NGs/whatever you want to call them, are around 320-340lbs.

Mertens is tough and does a decent job of filling up the hole, and Olive is a freakin ox and can make up for his size with brute power (power being the key ingredient in a good NT), but DEs/DTs in a 3-4 defense are generally 270lbs on up. Yarbrough is a decent pass rusher and solid tackler, but a 3-4 defense is usually like this;

Buck Linebacker-
a linebacker whose job it is to double as a DE, but still drop back in coverage.
Size-6'2 240-260lbs. We have the size for there.

1st MLB- 6'3 230-240lbs
Big enough to help the line out with taking out the ball carrier, but can still drop back. Main target is RB.

2nd MLB- 6'2 220-230lbs
A bit smaller, primarily drops back in coverage unless blitzed.

OLB- 6'3 240-250lbs
Similar job to the Buck, but drops back into coverage more often than rushed, unless used to blitz.


DEs- Generally 6'2-6'4 270-300lbs.
Basically DTs, unless going with a specific formation where the Buck linebacker functions as one pass rusher and the DE on the opposite side of the NT acts as the other, then you can get away with a smaller DE. While the other DE functions as a DT in a 4-3 defense with the NT, but in this case, you need a 290-300lbs DT. Ours, which is the style we're going with, is around 260lbs.

NT-Ideal NTs are 6'4 330-340lbs
Their job is to hog up blockers and plug up the middle gaps between the center and guards. Power is the key and a low center of gravity. Speed is not required, but not frowned upon, but a far second to brute strength. Mertens is big and strong, but I don't think his center of gravity is low enough. Olive, being 6'1 and 300lbs, may be under sized, but his brute power and low center of gravity force o-linemen to double team him.

So all in all, we're undersized on the line no matter how you look at it.
 
You are wrong about the weight of the NTs. By your logic most of the DTs in the NFL are underweight...
Look up the weight of the DTs in the NFL and you will find that the majority of them are between 300-320, not 330-340
 
BeaverPoke said:
You are wrong about the weight of the NTs. By your logic most of the DTs in the NFL are underweight...
Look up the weight of the DTs in the NFL and you will find that the majority of them are between 300-320, not 330-340
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A Defensive Tackle is different from a Nose Tackle. And the ideal size for a Nose Tackle is is 330-340. A DT, as I said, is ideally around the 300lbs range.
 
Go look at the rosters of our conference mates and you will see your wrong on about all your weights. We are undersized at OLB and safety though.. What we need is depth, true 2 deep on our line and LB'ers.
 
Mitch Unrein weighs 307
Ndamukong Suh weighs 306
Uso Olive is 293 according to ESPN.
And when Unrein left Laramie and went into the NFL he didn't weight 300. I think he weighed 290.
Uso being a red-shirt freshman is not undersized.
Neither is Mertens at 295.
The heaviest defensive player on Alabama is 324, then 320, then 310, then 292.
Heaviest defensive player on LSU is 308, then 306 then 294.
 
BeaverPoke said:
Mitch Unrein weighs 307
Ndamukong Suh weighs 306
Uso Olive is 293 according to ESPN.
And when Unrein left Laramie and went into the NFL he didn't weight 300. I think he weighed 290.
Uso being a red-shirt freshman is not undersized.
Neither is Mertens at 295.
The heaviest defensive player on Alabama is 324, then 320, then 310, then 292.
Heaviest defensive player on LSU is 308, then 306 then 294.
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Yeah, the first 4 are about the right size for Defensive Tackles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nose_tackle#Nose_tackle" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.pro-football-fans.com/nose-tackle.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Beav,
There is a difference between NT and DT. NT is usually bigger and just a giant human to clog the middle...typically in a 3-4, sometimes used in 4-3 but can also be 2 DT's.

However, fromolwyo, some of the weights you listed are decent size for NFL players let alone college players (maybe SEC but that's about it).

The biggest one that jumped out was OLB, a D1 OLB is going to typically be around 6'0" 220-235. I agree with your analysis on MLB and DE (except for Rush DE's which are sometimes around 225-250). I'd agree with these guys tho, there aren't very many 330-340 DT/NT in college football. If you have a good atlete in the 300-320 range you are doing good.
 
BackHarlowRoad said:
Dusty Hoffschneider was 257 and was an animal. Our defense was stout at the time as well.
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This post hits it...it isn't all about size...it is all about determination, desire, and intensity. We have the guys to play the positions, but do they have the coaching? I want a coach who motivates his players to play above their abilities.
 
I am going to repeat some of an earlier post here BUT...the problem lies in the secondary and the scheme. The scout team tears our secondary up on a daily basis in practice and they dismiss it! The likes of Simpson, Brown, Sewell, Berger, and Nzotcha (sp) tear them apart on a daily basis. If you watched the game this week we got beat deep several times. There is no excuse for that! As a safety you must protect deep! The other issue is our scheme......if you are going to play a 50 front....ie 3 down linemen, then you have to send at least one sometimes two linebackers on the hunt every snap! It isn't that difficult to see......our dbs are bad! Huff is decent the rest are inept! Couple that with a coordinator that has no clue and you have major issues. Our offense is fine. but we cant beat anyone when you let them score 50 points! 103 points in just the last two games? "COME ON MAN!"
 
I'm not a football coach, so I could be way off base but I view it this way:

You can have a bad secondary but if you have a good defensive line, the pressure they can put on the opposing QB can somewhat make up for it. If you have a good secondary, but a terrible defensive line that never gets pressure...the opposing QB will still be able to pick apart the secondary.

If you have great linebackers, it won't matter very much if the defensive line can't plug holes/slow down the runner for the backers to make a tackle. If you have a great defensive line who constantly plugs gaps and makes the opposing RB hesitate to find a hole, bad linebackers will still be able to get to where they need to.

I think D-Line is the most important aspect of a defense for those reasons. Am I wrong?
 
You're both right. I think our secondary plays bad but isn't bad if that makes sense. These are talented guys I truly believe that. I secondary got lit up all the time and beat deep. Chris Pro plays in the NFL, Tashaun goes from undrafted rookie free agent to a starter (and a good one) in two years. The coaching and the scheme are doing them no favors, NOW combine that with the fact that we don't get pressure and we don't get pressure and we don't send pressure. Even in the Glenn days we'd send the occasional corner blitz which would work.
 
sorry, but i've not been this embarrassed for our lack of D, like it's been the last 2 weeks, but over the course of last 5-8 years, our D has truly gotten soft, undermanned and they just don't get it. Something has to change and hopefully soon
 
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