Dalton, James, Marshall, Moemeka, Conway suspended

[ragtimejoe1]

So, Junky, you are saying that alcohol abuse had/has detrimental impacts on your life while light pot use does not. Comparing alcohol abuse to light pot use is a strawman argument often touted by the pro-pot movement.

It is a verifiable fact that one joint a day is not safer than 1 glass of wine or 1 beer per day. The impacts of 1 joint a day (good, bad, or no difference) needs a little more research. My hunch is that health effects are minimal except in adolescence.

I will almost guarantee that eating abuse, salt abuse, sugar abuse, or whatever abuse is worse for you than light pot use.

If you light up joint after joint after joint every single day, do you think that is worse than 1 glass of wine or 1 beer per day?

That is the point I'm trying to make; the pot crowd points to alcohol abuse as justification for light pot use. The comparison is asinine.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

So, Junky, you are saying that alcohol abuse had/has detrimental impacts on your life while light pot use does not. Comparing alcohol abuse to light pot use is a strawman argument often touted by the pro-pot movement.

It is a verifiable fact that one joint a day is not safer than 1 glass of wine or 1 beer per day. The impacts of 1 joint a day (good, bad, or no difference) needs a little more research. My hunch is that health effects are minimal except in adolescence.

I will almost guarantee that eating abuse, salt abuse, sugar abuse, or whatever abuse is worse for you than light pot use.

If you light up joint after joint after joint every single day, do you think that is worse than 1 glass of wine or 1 beer per day?

That is the point I'm trying to make; the pot crowd points to alcohol abuse as justification for light pot use. The comparison is asinine.

What would be a better comparison?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

What would be a better comparison?

Pot use to 1 drink (maybe 2 drinks for men). Most Americans do not abuse alcohol.

edit: I realize pot use is generic. 1 joint to 1 drink (maybe 2 drinks for men)/per whatever time you want (i.e. per day, per week).

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

What would be a better comparison?

Pot use to 1 drink (maybe 2 drinks for men). Most Americans do not abuse alcohol.

edit: I realize pot use is generic. 1 joint to 1 drink (maybe 2 drinks for men)/per whatever time you want (i.e. per day, per week).

Ah gotcha. I think this is a better comparison too. Alcohol abuse and 1 joint use are not the same.

 

[Cowboy Junky]

So, Junky, you are saying that alcohol abuse had/has detrimental impacts on your life while light pot use does not. Comparing alcohol abuse to light pot use is a strawman argument often touted by the pro-pot movement.

It is a verifiable fact that one joint a day is not safer than 1 glass of wine or 1 beer per day. The impacts of 1 joint a day (good, bad, or no difference) needs a little more research. My hunch is that health effects are minimal except in adolescence.

I will almost guarantee that eating abuse, salt abuse, sugar abuse, or whatever abuse is worse for you than light pot use.

If you light up joint after joint after joint every single day, do you think that is worse than 1 glass of wine or 1 beer per day?

That is the point I'm trying to make; the pot crowd points to alcohol abuse as justification for light pot use. The comparison is asinine.

I agree that heavy pot use isn't healthy. In fact, anything isn't healthy if you do it too much. If you drink too much water you will die.

The difference is this. I could smoke 13 joints in an hour and all it will do is make me dumber than a box of rocks, not very motivated, and hungrier than Rosie O'Donnell after a 12 day hunger strike. It has a fail safe ability for those that abuse it. It just makes you less motivated, and less likely to do anything, except possibly play video games and eat all the snack foods in the house. What it won't do, regardless of the amount you smoke: is make you violent, angry, mean, douchey, or dangerous to those around you.

Alcohol, on the other hand, is dangerous to those AROUND them when they use too much of it. You can guarantee that ANYONE that drinks too much will reach a point where they black out, they can't drive, they make terrible decisions, and a lot of times they get violent. Alcohol abuse is a different animal. If someone drinks too much it leads to people making incredibly bad decisions. People will get drunk and then do things they regret. People will get drunk and then beat the crap out of their kids, like my dad did.

There's a reason why the majority of violent crimes are committed by people that are drunk. Alcohol makes people violent. Pot doesn't. There's a reason why you frequently hear, "That guy is a real asshole when he's drunk", but never hear, "That guy is a mean prick when he gets stoned." One of them makes people mean. The other one doesn't.

That's all I'm saying.

Either one of them is going to eventually kill the user if they do it too much.

 

[TSpoke]

So, Junky, you are saying that alcohol abuse had/has detrimental impacts on your life while light pot use does not. Comparing alcohol abuse to light pot use is a strawman argument often touted by the pro-pot movement.

It is a verifiable fact that one joint a day is not safer than 1 glass of wine or 1 beer per day. The impacts of 1 joint a day (good, bad, or no difference) needs a little more research. My hunch is that health effects are minimal except in adolescence.

I will almost guarantee that eating abuse, salt abuse, sugar abuse, or whatever abuse is worse for you than light pot use.

If you light up joint after joint after joint every single day, do you think that is worse than 1 glass of wine or 1 beer per day?

That is the point I'm trying to make; the pot crowd points to alcohol abuse as justification for light pot use. The comparison is asinine.

I agree that heavy pot use isn't healthy. In fact, anything isn't healthy if you do it too much. If you drink too much water you will die.

The difference is this. I could smoke 13 joints in an hour and all it will do is make me dumber than a box of rocks, not very motivated, and hungrier than Rosie O'Donnell after a 12 day hunger strike. It has a fail safe ability for those that abuse it. It just makes you less motivated, and less likely to do anything, except possibly play video games and eat all the snack foods in the house. What it won't do, regardless of the amount you smoke: is make you violent, angry, mean, douchey, or dangerous to those around you.

Alcohol, on the other hand, is dangerous to those AROUND them when they use too much of it. You can guarantee that ANYONE that drinks too much will reach a point where they black out, they can't drive, they make terrible decisions, and a lot of times they get violent. Alcohol abuse is a different animal. If someone drinks too much it leads to people making incredibly bad decisions. People will get drunk and then do things they regret. People will get drunk and then beat the crap out of their kids, like my dad did.

There's a reason why the majority of violent crimes are committed by people that are drunk. Alcohol makes people violent. Pot doesn't. There's a reason why you frequently hear, "That guy is a real asshole when he's drunk", but never hear, "That guy is a mean prick when he gets stoned." One of them makes people mean. The other one doesn't.

That's all I'm saying.

Either one of them is going to eventually kill the user if they do it too much.

I agree with this and I don't enjoy pot so I never smoke it but I do drink plenty. Im a pretty mellow drunk though.

 

[Cowduck]

I'm hesitant to weigh in fully on this issue, but I have to say this. I'm deeply involved in the criminal justice field. I see assaults fueled by alcohol on a daily basis. I NEVER see assaults where the perpetrator is high on marijuana. Just in terms of danger to the community vis a vis how it affects behavior, there is no comparison between alcohol and marijuana. None.

 

[nwpoke]

I joint may be = to abuse. Quantification is an issue for researchers. The best study I've seen rolled joints out of .7 grams of pure cannabis and measured fixed tokes to subjects thru a toke-ometer, for about 42 MG THC inhaled. 45 minutes or so later, blood tests showed about .23 ng. I don't know how this translates to real life, but .23 was on the upper end of DUI /pot blood tests for the year 2015.( a hi of .28; .05 is the floor for per se DUI). Per this study (Battistella et al 2013), there were negative consequences physiologically and with performing tasks. While this study offered support for Swiss' 0 tolerance for toking and driving, maintaiing that level of consumption over time presumably would have serious health consequences.
Meanwhile, smoking 1 joint at a time seems a lot for 1 person, but maybe I'm naive. Anyway, light pot use compared to alcohol abuse is not a good comparison in terms of health. Not sure that I agree that light pot use is better or worse than light booze use in terms of personal health. The science isn't there yet.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I joint may be = to abuse. Quantification is an issue for researchers. The best study I've seen rolled joints out of .7 grams of pure cannabis and measured fixed tokes to subjects thru a toke-ometer, for about 42 MG THC inhaled. 45 minutes or so later, blood tests showed about .23 ng. I don't know how this translates to real life, but .23 was on the upper end of DUI /pot blood tests for the year 2015.( a hi of .28; .05 is the floor for per se DUI). Per this study (Battistella et al 2013), there were negative consequences physiologically and with performing tasks. While this study offered support for Swiss' 0 tolerance for toking and driving, maintaiing that level of consumption over time presumably would have serious health consequences.
Meanwhile, smoking 1 joint at a time seems a lot for 1 person, but maybe I'm naive. Anyway, light pot use compared to alcohol abuse is not a good comparison in terms of health. Not sure that I agree that light pot use is better or worse than light booze use in terms of personal health. The science isn't there yet.

I agree with this and would extend it somewhat. Are the violence and related family issues involved with alcohol a cause of alcohol or is alcohol a symptom of other problems? The same goes for adult psychosis and marijuana; is marijuana really involved or a symptom of psychosis that is already present. Epidemiology is a great tool, but it does have limitations.

Oh well, we can all agree that alcohol abuse is bad and probably worse than light marijuana use (whatever light is). I would think that we can all agree that light alcohol use is either safe or actually has health benefits thus it is hard for marijuana to be safer than responsible use of alcohol. Perhaps it is as safe? Time and science will tell.

 

[laxwyo]

"Alcohol abuse is bad and PROBABLY worse than light marijuana use"

Jesus. Get off it. You're an idiot if you even debate alcohol abuse to light marijuana use. Reverse the brainwashing

 

[ragtimejoe1]

"Alcohol abuse is bad and PROBABLY worse than light marijuana use"

Jesus. Get off it. You're an idiot if you even debate alcohol abuse to light marijuana use. Reverse the brainwashing

Get off what? You are an idiot if you make conclusions without hard scientific data.

Perhaps you can point me to a peer reviewed study with a sufficient sample size to conclude beyond all doubt that light marijuana use has no effects and 100% guaranteed safer than alcohol abuse.

My interpretation of the data I've seen is that it is likely or probably safer but I haven't seen definitive long-term studies with large sample sizes to rule out the cardiovascular and respiratory problems. More work is needed.

Of course, much of society is more than willing to run with whatever off the wall analysis that supports their view, but I tend to stick to primary literature that is peer reviewed.

I'm sure you have a link to the study(ies) you are basing your opinion on?

 

[Cowboy Junky]

"Alcohol abuse is bad and PROBABLY worse than light marijuana use"

Jesus. Get off it. You're an idiot if you even debate alcohol abuse to light marijuana use. Reverse the brainwashing

Get off what? You are an idiot if you make conclusions without hard scientific data.

Perhaps you can point me to a peer reviewed study with a sufficient sample size to conclude beyond all doubt that light marijuana use has no effects and 100% guaranteed safer than alcohol abuse.

My interpretation of the data I've seen is that it is likely or probably safer but I haven't seen definitive long-term studies with large sample sizes to rule out the cardiovascular and respiratory problems. More work is needed.

Of course, much of society is more than willing to run with whatever off the wall analysis that supports their view, but I tend to stick to primary literature that is peer reviewed.

I'm sure you have a link to the study(ies) you are basing your opinion on?

The good thing about marijuana, you don't have to smoke it. You can eat it. Hell, they even have a THC patch.

The only real health risk is lung cancer and that can be avoided by changing the method of delivery.

 

[JimmyDimes]

"Alcohol abuse is bad and PROBABLY worse than light marijuana use"

Jesus. Get off it. You're an idiot if you even debate alcohol abuse to light marijuana use. Reverse the brainwashing

Get off what? You are an idiot if you make conclusions without hard scientific data.

Perhaps you can point me to a peer reviewed study with a sufficient sample size to conclude beyond all doubt that light marijuana use has no effects and 100% guaranteed safer than alcohol abuse.

My interpretation of the data I've seen is that it is likely or probably safer but I haven't seen definitive long-term studies with large sample sizes to rule out the cardiovascular and respiratory problems. More work is needed.

Of course, much of society is more than willing to run with whatever off the wall analysis that supports their view, but I tend to stick to primary literature that is peer reviewed.

I'm sure you have a link to the study(ies) you are basing your opinion on?

The good thing about marijuana, you don't have to smoke it. You can eat it. Hell, they even have a THC patch.

The only real health risk is lung cancer and that can be avoided by changing the method of delivery.

I don't think this has even been proven. However, there are studies that suggest it inhibits the growth of tumors.