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Coach Joe and womens hoops

BeaverPoke

BeaverPoke

Well-known member
Coach Joe entered the season with 196 wins, averaging 19.6 wins per year including a WNIT championship and 1 NCAA Tourney appearance.

Is this the season that Coach Joe gets his average up to 20 wins per season, wins a MWC title and gets back to the Big Dance?

He has 7 wins so far, meaning he needs 17 more wins.
There are 20 more games on the schedule, and obviously the Cowgirls will have at least one game in the MWC Tourney.

Obviously if the Cowgirls go 17-3, he will be at the 20 wins per season mark going into the MWC tourney and logic says that the Cowgirls will win 2 or 3 games in the MWC tourney and have a good chance at winning the MWC Tourney and making the big dance.
Even if they don't win the MWC tourney, they have a very good chance at winning multiple WNIT games (even though they choked bad last season in the first round).

I think the Cowgirls definitely get 17 more wins this season to hit that 220th win in 11 years for Legerski.
But I also think they can also win the MWC Tourney and regular season title this year.
The MWC in womens ball is a 2 team race this season, Fresno, and Wyoming.

It's funny though, a Big Dance appearance would likely result in fewer wins because they will likely lose in a earlier round than if they were to make the WNIT (assuming they lost in the MWC Title Game), but at that point don't you think being in the Big Dance and going 1-1 is a lot better than winning 4, 5 or 6 in the WNIT?

My point being: They will get more wins if they are playing in a lesser tournament, boosting the total # of wins, but a better season would end up with a Big Dance showing.

Agree? Thoughts?
Ever thought Coach Joe could coach mens ball?
Obviously, Shyatt is a good coach, and I would rather him be the mens coach, but the thought of Coach Legerski being the mens coach isn't too bad I don't think.
But the difference is, Coach Joe recruits in-state, because there is actual D1 talent in womens hoops here in Wyo, and in mens ball, it's not that way at all.
 
I'll be honest I'll be pretty disappointed if we don't go to the big dance this year. We should be able to win the MWC... I'd rather make the tournament this year instead of the NIT. We have the best player in the conference and I think we will make it to the big dance.
 
Gunshow03 said:
I'll be honest I'll be pretty disappointed if we don't go to the big dance this year. We should be able to win the MWC... I'd rather make the tournament this year instead of the NIT. We have the best player in the conference and I think we will make it to the big dance.
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Strictly a one bid league though on the women's side, so it all comes down to the conference tourney. Anything can happen at that point. Cowgirls will be in the mix.
 
NowherePoke said:
Gunshow03 said:
I'll be honest I'll be pretty disappointed if we don't go to the big dance this year. We should be able to win the MWC... I'd rather make the tournament this year instead of the NIT. We have the best player in the conference and I think we will make it to the big dance.
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Strictly a one bid league though on the women's side, so it all comes down to the conference tourney. Anything can happen at that point. Cowgirls will be in the mix.
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Yeah no doubt it's a one bid league. I just feel we have enough talent in this team to win it. But like you said it will come down to the conference tourney, so we shall see what happens.
 
It would be nice to actually win a MWC championship.

When people have been talking about expectations for Wyoming athletics that seems to be one of the markers. In MBB and Football coaches are fired and fans upset if we don't win a championship - myself included.

I find it interesting through that no one has said we need to hold Legerski to the same higher standard. he has a lot of wins, but 0 conference championships. They did win the WNIT, which is nice, but it is a lower tournament. I don't think we should get rid of him at all - I think a championship will come (maybe this year) - but I do find it interesting that it hasn't been brought up (or I haven't seen it).

... well that should stir the pot ...
 
it may change here soon if we stay middle of the pack, but maybe not, maybe they like stability and a coach wanting to stay for a change in a sport
 
nirv117 said:
It would be nice to actually win a MWC championship.

When people have been talking about expectations for Wyoming athletics that seems to be one of the markers. In MBB and Football coaches are fired and fans upset if we don't win a championship - myself included.

I find it interesting through that no one has said we need to hold Legerski to the same higher standard. he has a lot of wins, but 0 conference championships. They did win the WNIT, which is nice, but it is a lower tournament. I don't think we should get rid of him at all - I think a championship will come (maybe this year) - but I do find it interesting that it hasn't been brought up (or I haven't seen it).

... well that should stir the pot ...
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That's an interesting thought.

Now, should womens hoops be looked at different? Not because it is a womens sport, but because the disparity in womens hoops is so ridiculous? It's almost harder to build a strong womens hoops team than it is college football team.
Look at UConn womens hoops for example. They are #1 in the country. They just beat the #2 team by like 20 points. They have beaten the #2 and #3 and two other Top 25 teams by about 20 points each time.
That just goes to show that there is not nearly as much talent in womens hoops and the best go to the elite schools and that the rich get richer in the recruiting classes.

Then another way you can look at it is this way: The difference between womens hoops and mens hoops and football is that, even though we still haven't won any MWC titles in the last decade in any of the 3, at least the cowgirls are in the top half, if not top third of the MWC each season.
In the end, if we aren't winning the MWC each season, then it's as simple as that. But at least we have hope going into the season that our girls are going to be really competitive and aren't going to be a laughing stock. For us to win a title in the 2 main mens sports, we have to hope to god we get lucky in a handful of games. For the girls, it comes down to 1 or 2 games.
At least we have a chance with the girls is what I am saying.

Now, if the girls win the MWC regular season, and win the MWC Tourney this season, then coach Joe goes from 0 MWC titles in 10 years, to 2 in 11.
That changes the numbers game big time, and that is what coaches are judged by right?
If all of a sudden he has an average of 1 MWC title every 5.5 years, and a Big Dance every 5.5 years, plus averaging over 20 wins per season, Coach Joe looks REALLY good.
Do it again next year, then he could be sitting at 4 in 12 years averaging a MWC title every 3 seasons, and a Big Dance every 4 years.

Anyways, for now, I really think the Cowgirls should win the MWC regular season and MWC Tourney this season. At the very worst, get 1 of the 2.
 
The elephant in the room with Joe & Cowgirls hoops is the MWC tournament. Always has been. Consistently and notoriously they are awful in the MWC tournament. Often first out...even the year they went to the NCAA tourney in Albuquerque, they were first out (by CSU none the less).
 
McPeachy said:
The elephant in the room with Joe & Cowgirls hoops is the MWC tournament. Always has been. Consistently and notoriously they are awful in the MWC tournament. Often first out...even the year they went to the NCAA tourney in Albuquerque, they were first out (by CSU none the less).
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Pretty sure that was SDSU mcpeachy.
But regardless, I get your point. How the F do they lose in the first round that year?
Kind of like last season really. First round exit in the WNIT.
They could have likely hosted every game last year but lost to freaking northern colorado.
 
BeaverPoke said:
McPeachy said:
The elephant in the room with Joe & Cowgirls hoops is the MWC tournament. Always has been. Consistently and notoriously they are awful in the MWC tournament. Often first out...even the year they went to the NCAA tourney in Albuquerque, they were first out (by CSU none the less).
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Pretty sure that was SDSU mcpeachy.
But regardless, I get your point. How the F do they lose in the first round that year?
Kind of like last season really. First round exit in the WNIT.
They could have likely hosted every game last year but lost to freaking northern colorado.
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Probably right. Maybe it was the 06-07 WNIT Champion team that pulled the One-And-Done performance against CSU in the MWC tourney.
 
Here's some numbers on Coach Joe in MWC play, including MWC Tourney, and WNIT (against MWC teams).
Total #'s:
Year 1: 7-9
Year 2: 7-8
Year 3: 10-7
Year 4: 12-6
Year 5: 12-5
Year 6: 8-9
Year 7: 10-9
Year 8: 12-5
Year 9: 8-8
Year 10: 13-5

99-71 overall against MWC teams.
58.2% winning percentage. Basically an average of 10-7 each season.

Regular season MWC record:
1: 6-8
2: 7-7
3: 10-6
4: 11-5
5: 12-4
6: 8-8
7: 9-7
8: 12-4
9: 7-7
10: 12-4

94-60
Basically 9.4-6 every season

WNIT record against MWC teams:
0-1 (BYU a couple years back)

Record in MWC Tourney:
1: 1-1
2: 0-1
3: 0-1
4: 1-1
5: 0-1
6: 0-1
7: 1-1
8: 0-1
9: 1-1
10: 1-1

Total MWC Tourney record under Coach Joe:
5-10
5 out of 10 years the Cowgirls are first round exits, going 0-1.
The other 5 years they go 1-1.

That is what has to change starting this season. The Cowgirls need to win more than 1 game, and preferably, they should win it.
 
Cowgirls going for win #10 in a few hours against Nevada.
Last year when the Cowgirls played Nevada in Laramie, the Cowgirls won 92-41.
 
I for one don't want Coach Joe in charge of the men's team. It's a whole other animal with a completely different mentality, and I just don't feel it is a good match with his personality. He is fine where he is.

I do think though that we do set a different standard for him for some reason. His win totals are what we are most impressed about him, but there are a couple of things that are starting to bug me now: There was a time when making the WNIT was great and meant we were improving and was worth getting excited over, but I feel that time has kinda passed a long time ago. We shouldn't be so darn giddy to make the WNIT any more. It's a pretty unimportant tournament in men's basketball now, and even less important in the big scheme of things on the women's side. Up until I left Laramie in 2010, the general feeling I got from most Laramie locals was that a WNIT appearance was more desirable than an NCAA appearance because we could see the games live in the WNIT. In his defense, it is a bit harder for a MW team to make the big tournament in women's basketball than it is in men's, but if I'm kinda surprised he doesn't get more heat for not making it.
 
wyoav211933 said:
I for one don't want Coach Joe in charge of the men's team. It's a whole other animal with a completely different mentality, and I just don't feel it is a good match with his personality. He is fine where he is.

I do think though that we do set a different standard for him for some reason. His win totals are what we are most impressed about him, but there are a couple of things that are starting to bug me now: There was a time when making the WNIT was great and meant we were improving and was worth getting excited over, but I feel that time has kinda passed a long time ago. We shouldn't be so darn giddy to make the WNIT any more. It's a pretty unimportant tournament in men's basketball now, and even less important in the big scheme of things on the women's side. Up until I left Laramie in 2010, the general feeling I got from most Laramie locals was that a WNIT appearance was more desirable than an NCAA appearance because we could see the games live in the WNIT. In his defense, it is a bit harder for a MW team to make the big tournament in women's basketball than it is in men's, but if I'm kinda surprised he doesn't get more heat for not making it.
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Why would people get on him about it? That's how the locals of Laramie operate. So many of them go to the girls games and support the team, but won't stand up and cheer. They say things like "Oh it's nice to go to the girls game, they're pretty good". Then sit there on their asses, and if you even mentioned firing him all those same people would be like "Why would they fire him?" ...Because we never make the Big Dance...then they would say "Oh that's dumb, we are pretty good, he won the WNIT almost 10 years ago."
The "we are who we are" mentality is huge among Laramie locals.
 
wyoav211933 said:
I for one don't want Coach Joe in charge of the men's team. It's a whole other animal with a completely different mentality, and I just don't feel it is a good match with his personality. He is fine where he is.

I do think though that we do set a different standard for him for some reason. His win totals are what we are most impressed about him, but there are a couple of things that are starting to bug me now: There was a time when making the WNIT was great and meant we were improving and was worth getting excited over, but I feel that time has kinda passed a long time ago. We shouldn't be so darn giddy to make the WNIT any more. It's a pretty unimportant tournament in men's basketball now, and even less important in the big scheme of things on the women's side. Up until I left Laramie in 2010, the general feeling I got from most Laramie locals was that a WNIT appearance was more desirable than an NCAA appearance because we could see the games live in the WNIT. In his defense, it is a bit harder for a MW team to make the big tournament in women's basketball than it is in men's, but if I'm kinda surprised he doesn't get more heat for not making it.
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Different standard? I don't see that. You can argue that our standards in general are too low (since we can't even hit them though, I would probably say that's not the case, but I could understand the argument).

Which standard have we held other coaches to, that we have not held Legerski to? If the FB or Men's BB coach consistently finished in the top half of the MWC (Legerski has finished .500 or better in MWC play in 9 straight seasons after going 6-8 in his first year) they would certainly not be fired.

By contrast, the FB team has finished .500 or better in MWC play a grand total of 3 times over that span and the Men's BB team finished .500 once and never above .500.

Shyatt is 10-20 in MWC play at UW (in an admittedly strong league)
DC was 16-23 in MWC play (in a weak league)

Glenn was 15-31 in MWC (strong league)
McClain was 23-37 over his last 4 years in a mediocre league. He was 73-71 overall in conference play and we certainly would not have fired him after 02-03 which was his last winning conference season, even though he only had one NCAA tournament appearance.

We probably don't need to discuss Schroyer or Koenning.

On top of that, Legerski has increased attendance from basically family members to 4k per game. In the Women's game that puts us 2nd in the league and Top 40 nationally. We will never achieve that in the Men's revenue sports. That matters because that is additional revenue coming into the program, something we desperately need (note: Women's tickets are cheaper so it's not comparable to Men's BB revenue).
 
I do think that the standard is pretty low, but because very few people in the state outside of Laramie/Cheyenne follow the girls team, and because they win more in the regular season than in men's basketball and football, we give them a pass.

Let's hypothetically say that McClain never led us to back to back regular season championships and no Big Dance appearance, and we just merely finished somewhere between 3 and 4th in the conference behind some combination of BYU, Utah, and UNLV/New Mexico, but at least making the NIT for 4 or 5 straight seasons. We were happy for the first appearance and even the second one, but my guess would be that by around season 3 or 4 of not winning the conference or making the Big Dance we'd be tired of the inability to make it to the next level and he probably would've been fired sooner. I give Legerski credit for avoiding a disaster season, but he hasn't even accomplished what McClain did at his peak at Wyoming, and we aren't exactly regretting he's gone.
 
wyoav211933 said:
I do think that the standard is pretty low, but because very few people in the state outside of Laramie/Cheyenne follow the girls team, and because they win more in the regular season than in men's basketball and football, we give them a pass.

Let's hypothetically say that McClain never led us to back to back regular season championships and no Big Dance appearance, and we just merely finished somewhere between 3 and 4th in the conference behind some combination of BYU, Utah, and UNLV/New Mexico, but at least making the NIT for 4 or 5 straight seasons. We were happy for the first appearance and even the second one, but my guess would be that by around season 3 or 4 of not winning the conference or making the Big Dance we'd be tired of the inability to make it to the next level and he probably would've been fired sooner. I give Legerski credit for avoiding a disaster season, but he hasn't even accomplished what McClain did at his peak at Wyoming, and we aren't exactly regretting he's gone.
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I guarantee you that McClain would not have been fired in the scenario you propose. There certainly would be posts here and on GWG wanting him gone in that scenario, but that's the way message boards work. However, he would not actually be fired.

I guess if you think Legerski should be fired, where should we look for a replacement?

UNM has found out life isn't so easy without Flanagan around and SDSU is about to find out (for the 2nd time) that Burns was kind of important too. I suspect we would find out the same about Legerski.

A couple of other notes:

1. Legerski doesn't just win more in the regular season than Men's BB or FB..he wins more in the regular season than any other sport at UW. No other athletic program at UW has a comparable winning percentage over the last decade (you could argue Wrestling has been more successful though, but it's a lot easier to be a Top 30 program when there are only 50 programs in the country instead of 350).

2. If we wanted to hold our coaches to the standard you are suggesting for Legerski (conference titles and NCAA tourneys), we would have to fire the whole lot of them (with the possible exception of Branch). That seems drastic.


It's not that I don't want more out of the Women's BB program (in particular, I was dissapointed that Legerski didn't take the Vandiver/Carlson team to the NCAA's), it's just that I recognize that Legerski has been more successful than any other coach at UW during his tenure and more successful than any coach that preceded him in his sport.
 
Whatever standards are set, Coach Joe and the girls just got win #10 and #1 for MWC play.
They looked slow and lazy and tired from the break. But when it came down to it, Woodward and Dent came through.
The girls should be a lot better next game and start racking up W's in the MWC really fast.
 
I don't really think that Legerski should be fired, but I do find the fact that he gets little to no heat from the locals or the folks on the message boards kind of surprising. I just think that as a coach he is only ok, but not great. And just because he is the most successful HC at the University at the moment isn't enough to convince me that he is anything more than ok. It took an awful lot to convince me to even care about the girls team in the first place, and I did enjoy it for a while, but after 5+ years of going no farther than the WNIT, and a bunch of locals and even students even preferring our WNIT mediocrity over NCAA tournament appearances, I had had enough. I just don't care about our girls program anymore, and probably won't as long as Legerski keeps the program where it is at.
 
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