Cade Smith offered by Wyoming

[BackHarlowRoad]

Really? So if this kid get offered by Oregon in 3 years....you're gonna sound really dumb. Are there gowyogo posters spilling onto wyonation? This pessimism sounds like rivals crap.

Good for Cade. I look forward to bringing back this thread in 3 years and serving copious amounts of crow.

I don't think anything I said was necessarily pessimistic. I never said the kid wasn't going to turn out to be good or even that this was a bad decision. I just question the motive behind it. It could work out very well in our favor and end happily ever after. So, if you all want to sit back and believe that if Brett wasn't our QB that this offer would have still happened that is fine with me.

(Cade doesn't start, btw, Brenden Shaffer does. Cade did see some time late in the 4th qtr in a couple games. The USC kid started on his HS team as an 8th grader and yes, it was very controversial if you all remember.)

I also hope that in 3+ years from now, you will have moved on to better things in life than proving me wrong. Trust me, it's not that important.

 

[Wyogogo]

"So, if you all want to sit back and believe that if Brett wasn't our QB that this offer would have still happened that is fine with me."

I don't think he was saying that. I think he was questioning your motive for the offer. Obviously getting Brett opened up recruiting in a fairly untouched state for the Pokes. It is very unlikely that DC would've heard of this kid before his sophomore year of high school without landing Smith. That is not what the debate is, if I'm reading these posts correctly, the statement in question was you saying that the ONLY reason this offer happened was to try and keep Smith happy. As if it had absolutely NOTHING to do with his brother. As if his brother could be 5 foot 3, 120 pounds with little upside and still gotten offered. I also disagree with that statement.

I think the argument is that maybe by Smith coming in and doing what he did, not just on the field or in the weight room, but off the field as well, got the coaches to thinking that those same characteristics could manifest themselves through his little brother. Plus, I'm sure we all can agree that recruiting wise, although we are getting better, we still have a tough time competing with bigger schools for the higher rated recruits. Brett's success is going to draw attention from the schools that passed on him, I'm sure they'll at least take a peek at his brother. Finding Brett was a diamond in the rough, he got passed on by lots of people including his home state schools, I think people are just saying that the coaches offered as an oppurtunity for lightning to strike twice, not just to keep Smith happy. Doesn't hurt that the kid is 6' 175 lbs. as a freshman either.. Just my :twocents: from the outside reading these posts.

 

[NowherePoke]

Why not offer to a talented youngster with which you already have some ties? The potential reward far outweighs the risk of offering someone so young...

...unless, of course, that youngster happens to have played a game in Wyoming, then only offer if two or more higher-profile programs have already offered.

Already having ties to someone if those ties are based on growing up within the Wyoming Cowboys geographic fan base footprint are a disqualification in the eyes of many.

Alright, I'll bite. Humor me here: Who was the last player from Wyoming to start on an FBS football team?

Good point. There were some in-state mistakes made under previous administrations (Dimel/Koenning), but Wyoming HS players going to FBS programs outside of Wyoming has been a rare event in recent years. The last one was Wolfley in 2006 (BYU) and it's hard to criticize a staff for losing a LDS kid from Star Valley to BYU.

More critical is the fact that the FCS programs in the region (Montana, Montana St., Weber, UNC, Idaho St. etc.) haven't signed any Wyoming players either (there is one Wyoming HS player on all of those rosters combined).

In Football, where we have 85 schollies (and a high rate of turnover under DC) I am totally in favor of giving the benefit of the doubt to a Wyoming kid and I would really question the staff if there were players we didn't offer that were ending up at other FBS schools or even at FCS schools, but there are almost no examples of players that fit that profile in the last 5 years.

 

[cowboyz]

Really? So if this kid get offered by Oregon in 3 years....you're gonna sound really dumb. Are there gowyogo posters spilling onto wyonation? This pessimism sounds like rivals crap.

Good for Cade. I look forward to bringing back this thread in 3 years and serving copious amounts of crow.

I don't think anything I said was necessarily pessimistic. I never said the kid wasn't going to turn out to be good or even that this was a bad decision. I just question the motive behind it. It could work out very well in our favor and end happily ever after. So, if you all want to sit back and believe that if Brett wasn't our QB that this offer would have still happened that is fine with me.

(Cade doesn't start, btw, Brenden Shaffer does. Cade did see some time late in the 4th qtr in a couple games. The USC kid started on his HS team as an 8th grader and yes, it was very controversial if you all remember.)

I also hope that in 3+ years from now, you will have moved on to better things in life than proving me wrong. Trust me, it's not that important.

I didn't realize Cade didn't start. An offer to a back up 9th grader is to keep his family happy and have first dibs (sort of) if he does turn out as good as his brother. Since they can pull the offer without notice up until signing day of senior year, I guess it's nothing lost.

 

[laxwyo]

I'm confused by all of this. The offer was probably a political move to keep the Smith's happy so we don't lose yet another QB to a transfer.

This attitude bugs the shit out of me.I heard other students say ALL THE TIME during the season "It kinda sucks that Smith is playing so well cuz now he's just going to leave." He is going nowhere. Just because one quarterback did it for reasons no one even really knows doesn't mean every player who comes in and has success is going to leave.

this.

It's clear the kid has talent. would he have been offered this early if he wasn't B. smitty's brother? no. Was he offered only because he was b. Smitty's brother? no. He was offered because he is Brett's brother who has a lot of talent.

 

[McPeachy]

I gotta say, I really don't give a shit either way. Good for Cade, and good move for UW...but in the grand scheme of life, do you know how much can / will change in 3+ years!

 

[Wyoirish]

In my opinion this offer is a legitimate testament to how strong they feel about Cade's ability now, as a freshman QB, but more importantly how they feel about his potential down the road. Peachy is right, there is a lot that can happen in 3.5 years but good and experienced coaches like GBrandon and DChristensen are paid and make their livelihoods based on identifying talent as early as possible and by hopefully, building a relationship and ultimately recruiting them to the U of Wyoming. College coaches are always looking for ways to shrink their talent pools and eliminating guys as potential recruits as soon as possible so they can focus on guys that they believe have a legitamate shot at being future Pokes. They always have a few they keep on the line in case they lose one at the last minute too. One of the things that these guys look at it, especially at QB, is if they have hit the sweet spot earlier with an older brother or relative. The lineage aspect to college recruiting can be a huge advantage especially if both, the brother and program had a great experience. Wyoming has absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain by making this offer to Cade. For some to think that it was made to keep Brett here and happy is absolutely ludicrous and this coaching staff, or any other for that matter, worth their salt would never do that. It is simply an offer to a kid that has been identified early as a potential D1 QB, whom I have heard from some that will eventually be a better prospect than Brett was as a senior. I also confirmed he was the JV QB early as a freshman and later became the #2 later in the year and throughout the play-offs, getting more meaningful snaps throughout the games later in the year. All-in-all looks like he played as much or more than his brother did at West Salem as a freshman last year and looks/should be the odds on favorite to be the guy next Fall and have the same three year run that Brett had.

 

[Wyoirish]

http://www.hudl.com/athlete/448390/cade-smith?view=public
I also found this after I googled Qb Cade Smith. Looks to have a decent size and instincts with a good arm for a freshman. Looks to have above average running ability too. I can definitely see why the coaches are high on him.

 

[WyoExpat]

Why not offer to a talented youngster with which you already have some ties? The potential reward far outweighs the risk of offering someone so young...

...unless, of course, that youngster happens to have played a game in Wyoming, then only offer if two or more higher-profile programs have already offered.

Already having ties to someone if those ties are based on growing up within the Wyoming Cowboys geographic fan base footprint are a disqualification in the eyes of many.

Alright, I'll bite. Humor me here: Who was the last player from Wyoming to start on an FBS football team?

Good point. There were some in-state mistakes made under previous administrations (Dimel/Koenning), but Wyoming HS players going to FBS programs outside of Wyoming has been a rare event in recent years. The last one was Wolfley in 2006 (BYU) and it's hard to criticize a staff for losing a LDS kid from Star Valley to BYU.

More critical is the fact that the FCS programs in the region (Montana, Montana St., Weber, UNC, Idaho St. etc.) haven't signed any Wyoming players either (there is one Wyoming HS player on all of those rosters combined).

In Football, where we have 85 schollies (and a high rate of turnover under DC) I am totally in favor of giving the benefit of the doubt to a Wyoming kid and I would really question the staff if there were players we didn't offer that were ending up at other FBS schools or even at FCS schools, but there are almost no examples of players that fit that profile in the last 5 years.

I do not think that "starting" is the correct point of reference. It is more correct to look at whether players are letter winners. This year's basketball team is demonstrating the importance of depth in spades.

I am all for a coach using scholarships as investments toward maintaining recruiting pipelines. Siblings and teammates are both fair game in my mind. Dimmel got some mileage out of signing all three Linebackers from Cedar Hill down in Texas one year. Maintaining goodwill within the premier program in the home state (Gillette) is also a legitimate use of a scholarship or two as well according to my standard. It is not like we only sign can't-miss guys.

Within the last 10-or-so years there have been a handful of Wyoming kids that made their way into the NFL via teams other than U.W., and some of those teams were in the MWC. The pipeline from Gillette and Cheyenne to CSU particularly irks me. Nebraska and Colorado seem to offer kids in Wyoming that go on to start for them before UW offers too often as well. Right now, CSU's volleyball team is getting too much mileage out of a Fornstrom girl out of Laramie County (Cheyenne Central grad but old Pine Bluffs family name) for my taste.

This is basketball, but how many players can walk on to Michigan State's basketball team and stick? I assume that a guy has to have athleticism and be able to play in order for that to happen. Wyoming's 2010 Gatorade football player of the year (out of 2A Big Horn High where Wyomingites insist the competition is too minimal for a player to develop game skills) successfully tried out for the Spartan basketball team. He had a big frame. Did either the football or basketball program go out of their way to try to get him to go to Laramie?

For basketball, the all-time miss was James Johnson out of East. I do not care what people said about academics, he led Wake Forest (in the ACC with Duke, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech) in scoring for his first two years before being taken in the 1st round of the NBA draft after is Sophomore year. If I remember correctly, he was a contemporary of Adam Waddell.

I think it is wise to offer scholarships strategically and to take chances to the extent the program can. I just think that the burden of persuasion imposed on kids coming out of Wyoming is disproportionately high relative to how they have proven to perform once they get their chance. I do not expect multi-year stars that eventually go pro. To me, players that grow into solid, mature players off the bench/sideline are worth getting into the program too.

 

[NowherePoke]

Why not offer to a talented youngster with which you already have some ties? The potential reward far outweighs the risk of offering someone so young...

...unless, of course, that youngster happens to have played a game in Wyoming, then only offer if two or more higher-profile programs have already offered.

Already having ties to someone if those ties are based on growing up within the Wyoming Cowboys geographic fan base footprint are a disqualification in the eyes of many.

Alright, I'll bite. Humor me here: Who was the last player from Wyoming to start on an FBS football team?

Good point. There were some in-state mistakes made under previous administrations (Dimel/Koenning), but Wyoming HS players going to FBS programs outside of Wyoming has been a rare event in recent years. The last one was Wolfley in 2006 (BYU) and it's hard to criticize a staff for losing a LDS kid from Star Valley to BYU.

More critical is the fact that the FCS programs in the region (Montana, Montana St., Weber, UNC, Idaho St. etc.) haven't signed any Wyoming players either (there is one Wyoming HS player on all of those rosters combined).

In Football, where we have 85 schollies (and a high rate of turnover under DC) I am totally in favor of giving the benefit of the doubt to a Wyoming kid and I would really question the staff if there were players we didn't offer that were ending up at other FBS schools or even at FCS schools, but there are almost no examples of players that fit that profile in the last 5 years.

I do not think that "starting" is the correct point of reference. It is more correct to look at whether players are letter winners. This year's basketball team is demonstrating the importance of depth in spades.

I am all for a coach using scholarships as investments toward maintaining recruiting pipelines. Siblings and teammates are both fair game in my mind. Dimmel got some mileage out of signing all three Linebackers from Cedar Hill down in Texas one year. Maintaining goodwill within the premier program in the home state (Gillette) is also a legitimate use of a scholarship or two as well according to my standard. It is not like we only sign can't-miss guys.

Within the last 10-or-so years there have been a handful of Wyoming kids that made their way into the NFL via teams other than U.W., and some of those teams were in the MWC. The pipeline from Gillette and Cheyenne to CSU particularly irks me. Nebraska and Colorado seem to offer kids in Wyoming that go on to start for them before UW offers too often as well. Right now, CSU's volleyball team is getting too much mileage out of a Fornstrom girl out of Laramie County (Cheyenne Central grad but old Pine Bluffs family name) for my taste.

This is basketball, but how many players can walk on to Michigan State's basketball team and stick? I assume that a guy has to have athleticism and be able to play in order for that to happen. Wyoming's 2010 Gatorade football player of the year (out of 2A Big Horn High where Wyomingites insist the competition is too minimal for a player to develop game skills) successfully tried out for the Spartan basketball team. He had a big frame. Did either the football or basketball program go out of their way to try to get him to go to Laramie?

For basketball, the all-time miss was James Johnson out of East. I do not care what people said about academics, he led Wake Forest (in the ACC with Duke, North Carolina, and Georgia Tech) in scoring for his first two years before being taken in the 1st round of the NBA draft after is Sophomore year. If I remember correctly, he was a contemporary of Adam Waddell.

I think it is wise to offer scholarships strategically and to take chances to the extent the program can. I just think that the burden of persuasion imposed on kids coming out of Wyoming is disproportionately high relative to how they have proven to perform once they get their chance. I do not expect multi-year stars that eventually go pro. To me, players that grow into solid, mature players off the bench/sideline are worth getting into the program too.

Several comments here:

1. Who said anything about starting? My comment about one player at all FCS regional programs is about total roster. There is one Wyoming kid (at Montana, played special teams) total on all of those rosters combined. No starters. Likewise, there are no current scholarship FBS players that graduated from a Wyoming HS, other than the ones on UW. Edit: I think you probably were referring to WYO1016's post instead of mine.

2. In regards to the Stratton/Oldenburg debacles, I agree totally, but my point was that there haven't been any of those players in a very, very long time. That was 10 years ago when those guys were signed. Can't blame DC for those problems (or even Glenn, who did lose the younger Stratton, but that was mostly done before he even got here). Out of the last 8 recruiting classes, there have been exactly one Wyoming HS Player sign with an out of state FBS program and that was Wolfley. Neither DC nor Glenn have lost out on in-state talent. Dimel and Koenning did in a big way, and it is one of many reasons they both suck ass as head coaches.

3. Nebraska and Colorado? I can't even remember the last Wyoming kid that started for Colorado or Nebraska. Troy Dumas? That was in 1992 I believe.

4. Fornstrom? Ashley? She graduated from CSU 3 years ago! I think she was a 2005 High School grad. Tough to blame the current staff for that. Besides, are we sure she wasn't recruited by WYO? Both her and her sister played for CSU, but I just assume we lost that recruiting battle (I admit I don't really know though).

5. James Johnson was recruited by Wyoming. He wasn't interested in us. The Jaycee Carroll thing is probably more of an issue than Johnson. Johnson didn't want to play for UW, but I think Carroll did and it was clearly not handled correctly by McClain. That's a big miss.

6. Many of the Wyoming players that end up elsewhere were indeed recruited by UW. Gillette had two basketball players (one on the men's side, one on the women's) that were heavily recruited and offered by the University of Wyoming last year and they turned us down and told us to pound sand. Just like Johnson. In the case of Taran Brown, I suppose I can't blame him (would you want to play for Schroyer?), but it's hard to argue that Joe Legerski doesn't recruit in-state talent (Vandiver, Carlson, Scheffler, Woodward, Lewis, the list goes on) and yet he didn't land Kelley. It's the kids choice for reasons of their own.


The argument was that UW coaches and officials don't recruit or respect in-state talent and I find almost zero evidence that that it is true of the current coaching staffs, although I do agree it was true of at least a couple of their predecessors. However, it is so long ago now that is is irrelevant. A kid coming out of HS now, was in 3rd grade or so when Koenning was losing out to CSU on recruits. Ancient history at this point.

 

[WyoExpat]

Yes, I am responding to multiple arguments by multiple posters. This isn't personal in my mind. It is institutional. I also don't claim that past losses are attributable to current coaches. Again, it is a complaint that there is an institutional bias among fans and transient coaching staffs against taking a chance on local players. It has been that way, off and on for a couple decades.

There are those who feel like the Bramlet brothers out of Wheatland were bad decisions. However, one was drafted and both signed contracts with NFL teams. That does not happen with every quarterback that has started for UW.

One of the luxuries of coaching sports outside of the big two is that coaches have more flexibility to look in their own backyard and develop kids.

For example, add Joby Wright losing Garret Patik of Buffalo to Oldenburg and the Strattons.

We are going to lose recruiting battles sometimes, but I do not like doing so when the winning program does not clearly offer something distinctly different or superior to Wyoming. Ashley Fornstrom was who I was thinking of. Dimmel's colossal mistake with the Poppinga brothers was another example of messing up with the oldest sibling that was easy to get into the program and losing younger, better siblings as a consequence.

On the other hand, I will never fault a Wyoming kid who signs to play and attend Stanford, Texas, a Big Ten program or the Ivy League. In the end, it is about the sheepskin more than the letter jacket for almost all student-athletes.

I personally know people who have received scholarships and started for both CU and Nebraska since Troy Dumas played. Those situations are a little like losing James Johnson. Of course we lose that battle but those examples also rebut the argument that Wyoming high school sports are so inferior that we cannot produce high-level players. There is no ceiling on what kids can do that is directly attributable to playing high school ball in Wyoming.

Why is it that, with the exception of Schroyer, the kids that get scholarships to play for UW ultimately end up being the key or one of the key members of the team? Bobby Traylor was the last player that was a key reserve that I can think of at UW (again, except for the Schroyer era, which was a debacle.) Did you see Adam Waddell's comment about playing for Wyoming, which he reiterated in tonight's postgame interview?

In that gray area of recruiting, I really like the notion of having players coming in who bled brown & gold and had a passion for the program long before they had their first conversation with a coach.

 

[calpoke25]

Wyoexpat I think you're running in circles.

I don't think anyone is against giving a Wyo kid a chance, but as Nowherepoke has pointed out, it's been 10 years since we have really lost anyone worth while to an out of state team and it's not like we have Wyoming kids singing on at other FBS or even FCS teams (that was another crazy stat Nowhere pointed out). It's beating a dead horse talking about players who hung up their collegiate shoes 10-15 years ago. Would you care naming those said Wyoming high school football players who have started for Colorado and Nebraska that you are mentioning?

Why is it that kids who get scholarships to play at Wyoming end up being key parts of the team? Hmm probably because they were good enough to warrant giving a scholarship to, which would in turn mean they probably were good enough to be key contributors....

Who have we lost a recruiting battle to lately? Who is the last legitimate game changing prospect in either revenue sport from Wyoming who we can honestly say UW screwed it up? Jaycee Carroll.... who graduated in 2002 and I had the misfortune of playing against. Who cares about Joby Wright or Bobby Traylor or Dana Dimel? This isn't 1998.

As you said, in the gray area of recruiting, I don't think anyone of us are against giving a Wyo kid the benefit of the doubt, but it hasn't really been very gray the last couple years, it's been pretty black and white.

 

[laxwyo]

well said calpoke. i couldn't have said it better. my thoughts exactly.

 

[BeaverPoke]

I'm telling ya, the kid is going to be every bit the nightmare for defenses that Brett is. As much as I'd like to see Oregon State pick him up, I have to applaud UW for the vote of confidence this early in his career. Personally I think Brett's attitude and performance opened some eyes as to what's going on out west, but Cade's work and some great coaching will make any school lucky to get him. He's bigger than Brett was at this point, and pretty close in speed. It's going to be fun to watch him the next three years here locally...the sky is the limit for both of them

I totally agree with this. EVERYTHING about this. I would be very excited if Cade went to UW, or OSU. Definitely not the Sucks though.

 

[WyoExpat]

I might be running in circles a little. Nebraska got a lot of mileage out of a punter from Cheyenne recently.

I have also been saddened to see so many women track athletes out of Cheyenne go down to run at SEC schools over the past decade. It is old news, but didn't a Horne from Tongue River sign to play football for Stanford sometime within the past 8 years or so? (I admit that not all of those who get away were bad to lose--considering Mark Hopkinson went to play football for Arizona.)

As for young Mr. Smith, I really like seeing whole family legacies of players go through the same school, especially if they are really good ones wearing brown & gold. BeaverPoke, I have no love lost for the folks in Eugene and I really hope that, given the choice, Mr. Smith sees a better path forward through Laramie. I have a real bias for Universities that have an Ag College though.

As for my "key contributors" comment, I intended to differentiate between "key contributors" and the secondary role players that teams depend upon but do not play primary roles on teams. It seems to me like a Wyoming kid has to be a sure-fire, go-to scorer to get an offer. It seems to me like the bar is set higher for kids coming out of Wyoming, and that might be because they might be seen as higher-risk prospects. That makes sense but that does not mean I have to like it.

Maybe none of the players could have competed in the MWC last year, but it seems like I saw 2-3 Wyoming high school players who started for teams in conference championship games. At least one was a Steward, but it seems like there were a couple more and that surprised me. I see room for improvement in the relationship between the University's programs and the corresponding high school programs around the state, that is all. I also suspect that it is a systemic issue and not one that is personal to any particular coach. I like how Legerski seems to be connected around the state.