Burman demands "dramatic improvement" next year......

[SDPokeFan]

From the Trib today.

https://trib.com/sports/college/wyoming/mbb/wyoming-ad-men-s-hoops-need-to-make-dramatic-improvement/article_213d2eb5-d1b7-5228-b714-952f4d97f869.html?utm_content=buffer19880&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=LEEDCC&fbclid=IwAR3MH6zx-DBwwis0wilmRGJwDTOu3gLznLy-al84AvwGVLqYTW7LBHcxhtk#tracking-source=home-the-latest

 

[OrediggerPoke]

He cites Wyoming's two home wins (over UNM and SJSU - - with a combined one road win all year) to close out the season as a reason for keeping Edwards and optimism in the program...who could have ever guessed that

Despite losing Justin James, Burman goes on to state 'I don’t believe we’re that far away.'

 

[WyomingAg]

It's his buddy Heath all over again. :willybs:

One year from now we will be having the same discussion of will Edwards be fired or not. Or does our 12 win team next year, that has a 50% increase in wins but still have a bad losing record get considered "dramatic improvement"

 

[Adv8RU12]

He demands "dramatic improvement" ? Does that mean he is going to resign? That would be "dramatic improvement".

 

[bladerunnr]

No one will be around to witness the sinking of the BB program. Thanks Tom Burman!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdOBjf33K5I

 

[stymeman]

Don't see what he sees, but hopefully drastically different next year, i miss seeing the AA(somewhat)

 

[CowboyNV]

It's his buddy Heath all over again. :willybs:

One year from now we will be having the same discussion of will Edwards be fired or not. Or does our 12 win team next year, that has a 50% increase in wins but still have a bad losing record get considered "dramatic improvement"

+1 I'm surprised he didn't give Edwards an extension. Perhaps it is time the University told Burman he needs to show "dramatic Improvement" next year or he will be gone as well.

 

[bladerunnr]

Don't see what he sees, but hopefully drastically different next year, i miss seeing the AA(somewhat)

What Burman "sees" is a 2 year buyout that he isn't willing to make. As long as attendance doesn't fall too hard, a 5th year of Edwards would not surprise me, no matter how bad the results.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

As long as attendance doesn't fall too hard, a 5th year of Edwards would not surprise me, no matter how bad the results.

Attendance was terrible this year. Without Maury's ticket donations, we are looking at historically bad attendance.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

 

[bladerunnr]

As long as attendance doesn't fall too hard, a 5th year of Edwards would not surprise me, no matter how bad the results.

Attendance was terrible this year. Without Maury's ticket donations, we are looking at historically bad attendance.

Agreed. But I think Burman is willing to live with crowds of 3k. When they get to 2k and below, then he might have to act. Csewe went through this with Dale Layer. Attendance was lower than the women's games. I'm afraid that is where we're headed.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

One other thought. Goal is to compete in the top HALF of the conference!!??
FFS, here is NET for top half: 23, 29, 80, 116, 149, 157. Our goal is to be competitive with teams in the 80 to 150 range. Let that sink in. Don't even get started with that philosophy and football.

#acceptingmediocrity

 

[Cornpoke]

Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

 

[307bball]

Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

 

[Pokes fan 24-7]

Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

This is true for football but not basketball. With basketball, the gap has been shrinking between the P5 and mid majors for years. AAC, Missourri Valley, WCC, etc.have all been improving and gaining ground on the P5. The mountain west has declined a bit, but Nevada is as good as any of the old SDSU , UNLV, or Utah team's from the glory days of the conference. I think allot of MWC schools are neglecting hoops and sinking more resources into football to try and bridge that gap between the halves and have nots. Allot of the more successful smaller basketball programs either don't have football or are FCS.

 

[307bball]

Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

This is true for football but not basketball. With basketball, the gap has been shrinking between the P5 and mid majors for years. AAC, Missourri Valley, WCC, etc.have all been improving and gaining ground on the P5. The mountain west has declined a bit, but Nevada is as good as any of the old SDSU , UNLV, or Utah team's from the glory days of the conference. I think allot of MWC schools are neglecting hoops and sinking more resources into football to try and bridge that gap between the halves and have nots. Allot of the more successful smaller basketball programs either don't have football or are FCS.

Good point...this effect is much more pronounced in football. I still feel it is there in basketball...but as i mentioned above, I have no metric to back this up with...just my own observations of the arc of the MWC and the WAC before that. I think the MW has declined more than a bit though. Nevada is very competitive but I don't think they quite stack up against the top conference teams of the last 25 years. Those teams had some competition in the middle tiers of the conference that does not exist nowadays. The MW, as a whole, is terrifically bad.

Maybe the better question should be...does having a football program actually impede basketball success for non-P5 schools? That is interesting. Seems like a very strong correlation...maybe it is even caused by it....

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

This is true for football but not basketball. With basketball, the gap has been shrinking between the P5 and mid majors for years. AAC, Missourri Valley, WCC, etc.have all been improving and gaining ground on the P5. The mountain west has declined a bit, but Nevada is as good as any of the old SDSU , UNLV, or Utah team's from the glory days of the conference. I think allot of MWC schools are neglecting hoops and sinking more resources into football to try and bridge that gap between the halves and have nots. Allot of the more successful smaller basketball programs either don't have football or are FCS.

Maybe the better question should be...does having a football program actually impede basketball success for non-P5 schools? That is interesting. Seems like a very strong correlation...maybe it is even caused by it....

Absolutely. There is only so much money to go around at the smaller schools. When football takes a large portion of it, basketball is left with less which means less money for coaching staff salaries, recruiting, facilities, gear, etc. Is it a coincidence that the school with the best basketball program west of the Mississippi doesn't have a football program.

The same can be seen at Wyoming. A lot of money has been thrown at the football team in the last 3-5 years, not so much for the basketball team minus the AA upgrade.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

This is all fine and dandy to argue. There is a competitive imbalance between the P5 and G5 schools. Can't dispute that. However, should we not be able to compete and maintain relevance within our own damn conference? If we cannot do so then it is time to explore the Big Sky or RMAC.......

 

[307bball]

Even with Shy, Burman has really struggled with the men's bball program.

Considering the demise of the MWC in both major sports, our inability to more consistently field championship teams or even competitive (with the top of the conference) teams is mind blowing unless you are accepting of the philosophy that Laramie just has too many challenges.

I think that is horsecrap, but i know I'm in the minority.

I'm with you on that. All the excuses have been used up. The MWC is substantially weaker than it used to be but yet no improvement in the major sports.

Hmm is it possible that Wyoming is not immune to whatever forces are conspiring to hollow out the middle of college athletics. There has always been year-in year-out top notch programs in college as well as the opposite doormat programs. I have no data to back this up but it feels like those opposite poles are further apart than they used to be and the distribution of teams are migrating in one direction or the other....mostly by historically average programs sliding into the doormat ranks, but there are a few examples of programs that have been able to move in a more competitive direction.

The MWC, oustide of Boise St football has regressed since it's formation. I don't think that regression is specific to just the MWC. Somebody that is better at statistical analysis could verify this by looking at avg wins/year in 4 year windows for the last 40 years or so. I would bet that the year over year mediocre competitive program has largely dissapeared and been replaced by year over year terrible programs with 1-2 year spikes in wins.

If you take a step back and acknowledge that across college athletics, competitive imbalance is worsening...how much of this do you lay at the foot any current individual athletic director or administration? I'm in agreement that Burman no great leader, but I fail to see the obvious-to-others moves that Wyoming should be making. The announcement about demanding "dramatic improvement" rings hollow to us who know it's much more about buyout amounts. If this was all about W's and L's he would be gone. Look at CSU football...They don't want Bobo down there but they are stuck financially....it gets dressed up as "staying the course" or "improvements are coming" but the reality is that both schools have handcuffed themselves financially to under-performing coaches.

The talk about Laramie being to difficult to win at is BS..no question. There is a bigger question though. Is some kind of sustained competitive balance become more and more difficult to hang on to in the era of modern era of college athletics?

This is all fine and dandy to argue. There is a competitive imbalance between the P5 and G5 schools. Can't dispute that. However, should we not be able to compete and maintain relevance within our own damn conference? If we cannot do so then it is time to explore the Big Sky or RMAC.......

Absolutely, the expectation should be competitiveness at the upper echelon of the MW. I just have trouble following the logic that since the MW is worse in absolute terms, Wyo would naturally be better relative to other MW teams. I'm just pointing out that we are not immune to whatever is causing the MW to be so horrific in bball. Unless you are Nevada ... this is some pretty low water marks for the conference all around (and I would bet almost anything that Nevada's recent success is not going to lead to year-in year-out success).

Maybe there is a fragility to conferences like the MW that makes things like conference re-alignment very devastating. It would be great if the effect of programs like BYU, Utah, and TCU leaving the MW meant that there was no change in absolute competitiveness but that has not been the case.

If the MW was the best conference in the land I would be pissed if Wyoming was last in it...Now the MW is terrible and we are still last. sux

Ironically, the strongest Wyoming teams in a long time (McClains's best years) coincided with a fairly strong conference lineup....my memory may not be correct there so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[LanderPoke]

Terrible. How poorly does one have to perform to get fired? Burman and Edwards should have been shown the door. We are delaying the inevitable by 12 months. Why not just do it now? Next year is going to be just as painful as this year was if not more so.