Big Men

[WYCowboy]

Pretty sure we were winning and in 3rd place prior to 2 unforeseen incidents that affected our season.

:agree:

Me too.

 

[NowherePoke]

You guys know that we're currently 8-6 in conference play, right? That's not a losing record, and while we may not think there's another win left on the schedule the team certainly doesn't feel that way. Don't ink in a losing record this season quite yet.

We are 8-7 and need to finish 2-1 to have a winning conference record for the first time since 02-03. That seems a steep hill to climb without Nance and Hankerson, although it is possible.

 

[NowherePoke]

Potato, you do realize had players stayed with the program and not left we would has the depth behind Nance and Cooke that we don't have. Ajayi, Marshall, both would either been starters or contributors behind Nance and Cooke had they stayed. When Ajayi left us high and dry, Shyatt had a very short time to get any big he could get, hence Sellers. Halderson was a top big guy out of Colorado in HS, can't help that he has had an injury and also struggles with weight gain. Some people just can't gain weight no matter what they do in the weight room.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.

Disagree on so many levels:

1. Ajayi and Marshall - First of all, neither of them are any good. Ajayi basically sees Matt Sellers minutes for a mid-tier MAC squad this year and Marshall is a role player at D2 CSU-Pueblo. They would not have helped. In fact, Marshall's departure freed up the scholarship for Derek Cooke, Jr. who was signed that spring to replace Marshall. I believe DC is the better player there.

2. Matt Sellers - Shyatt didn't have a short period of time after Ajayi's departure. He chose to sign Sellers in the fall right after Ajayi's departure but he could have waited until the spring signing period and signed a JC big (Sellers would have still been available) or a transfer. I understand the concept was the Sellers could come to UW right away and red-shirt that 2nd semester to help the transition, but it doesn't work if the talent isn't there.

3. Shakir Smith didn't leave, he was kicked off the team after being convicted of a crime (theft). While that is out of a coach's control (as is whatever Hankerson's issue is), the coach ultimately has the responsibility. If a whole bunch of CSU players were being arrested would you be as charitable? Martinez was not recruited by Shyatt, nor was Washington, so I don't lay those at his feet, but the Smith and Hankerson were.

4. Winning - We are not winning. Barring an unforeseen development we will complete our 11th consecutive season without a winning conference record. That is unprecedented in the history of Wyoming basketball.

Pretty sure we were winning and in 3rd place prior to 2 unforeseen incidents that affected our season. You sound as if you expected this to happen.

Certainly didn't expect it to happen. We were 12-0 and knocking on the door of the Top 25 before last year's unforeseen incident as well. The common theme is lack of depth meaning an injury or other issue impacts our program more than other programs. CU will still make the NCAA without Dinwiddie, UNM still won the league without Kirk, etc.

I am not expecting us to be able to withstand an injury to our best player and keep on ticking, but we can't continually be one incident away from the bottom.

 

[NowherePoke]

Potato, you do realize had players stayed with the program and not left we would has the depth behind Nance and Cooke that we don't have. Ajayi, Marshall, both would either been starters or contributors behind Nance and Cooke had they stayed. When Ajayi left us high and dry, Shyatt had a very short time to get any big he could get, hence Sellers. Halderson was a top big guy out of Colorado in HS, can't help that he has had an injury and also struggles with weight gain. Some people just can't gain weight no matter what they do in the weight room.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.

Disagree on so many levels:

1. Ajayi and Marshall - First of all, neither of them are any good. Ajayi basically sees Matt Sellers minutes for a mid-tier MAC squad this year and Marshall is a role player at D2 CSU-Pueblo. They would not have helped. In fact, Marshall's departure freed up the scholarship for Derek Cooke, Jr. who was signed that spring to replace Marshall. I believe DC is the better player there.

2. Matt Sellers - Shyatt didn't have a short period of time after Ajayi's departure. He chose to sign Sellers in the fall right after Ajayi's departure but he could have waited until the spring signing period and signed a JC big (Sellers would have still been available) or a transfer. I understand the concept was the Sellers could come to UW right away and red-shirt that 2nd semester to help the transition, but it doesn't work if the talent isn't there.

3. Shakir Smith didn't leave, he was kicked off the team after being convicted of a crime (theft). While that is out of a coach's control (as is whatever Hankerson's issue is), the coach ultimately has the responsibility. If a whole bunch of CSU players were being arrested would you be as charitable? Martinez was not recruited by Shyatt, nor was Washington, so I don't lay those at his feet, but the Smith and Hankerson were.

4. Winning - We are not winning. Barring an unforeseen development we will complete our 11th consecutive season without a winning conference record. That is unprecedented in the history of Wyoming basketball.

I agree, good post. Every program in the country has natural attrition and every coach is well aware that it will happen. At the same time, they all recruit for depth bc of the obvious. It is completely asinine to sit here and think Wyo is the only school in the MW to have these shortcomings! UNLV has had a new roster each of Rice's 3 years and they're doing alright. Let's talk about the character of these kids Shy always talks about.. Seems to me these kids are having more issues than Heath's.. am I wrong? I'm not all that convinced these guys are any better outside of the classroom. Truthfully, I'm REALLY disappointed in seeing this.

It's hard to say in terms of the off the court issues. Martinez and Washington were Schroyer recruits, so the legal problems of Shyatt's recruits are Smith, Hankerson, and to a limited extent Cooke with him being involved in the Martinez incident. Since we don't know exactly what happened with Hank it's hard to say, but if it does involve possession of marijuana as rumored, I just can't get up in arms about it. Stupid? Probably, and we have to follow the laws as they are currently in place, but I just can't designate smoking weed as a character flaw anymore than drinking a beer.

 

[NowherePoke]

Potato, you do realize had players stayed with the program and not left we would has the depth behind Nance and Cooke that we don't have. Ajayi, Marshall, both would either been starters or contributors behind Nance and Cooke had they stayed. When Ajayi left us high and dry, Shyatt had a very short time to get any big he could get, hence Sellers. Halderson was a top big guy out of Colorado in HS, can't help that he has had an injury and also struggles with weight gain. Some people just can't gain weight no matter what they do in the weight room.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.

Disagree on so many levels:

1. Ajayi and Marshall - First of all, neither of them are any good. Ajayi basically sees Matt Sellers minutes for a mid-tier MAC squad this year and Marshall is a role player at D2 CSU-Pueblo. They would not have helped. In fact, Marshall's departure freed up the scholarship for Derek Cooke, Jr. who was signed that spring to replace Marshall. I believe DC is the better player there.

2. Matt Sellers - Shyatt didn't have a short period of time after Ajayi's departure. He chose to sign Sellers in the fall right after Ajayi's departure but he could have waited until the spring signing period and signed a JC big (Sellers would have still been available) or a transfer. I understand the concept was the Sellers could come to UW right away and red-shirt that 2nd semester to help the transition, but it doesn't work if the talent isn't there.

3. Shakir Smith didn't leave, he was kicked off the team after being convicted of a crime (theft). While that is out of a coach's control (as is whatever Hankerson's issue is), the coach ultimately has the responsibility. If a whole bunch of CSU players were being arrested would you be as charitable? Martinez was not recruited by Shyatt, nor was Washington, so I don't lay those at his feet, but the Smith and Hankerson were.

4. Winning - We are not winning. Barring an unforeseen development we will complete our 11th consecutive season without a winning conference record. That is unprecedented in the history of Wyoming basketball.

Nowhere, you made all excellent points. I love it when some people point to the fact that Wyoming has won 20 games in a season, back to back and how rare that is. But with the coaches setting up the non-conference schedules, just about any coach would have 20 wins at Wyoming when you schedule so many softies, and just a few hard ones like CU and Ohio St.. But as you most correctly pointed out, the rubber meets the road during the conference season and there we are still posting a losing record, year after year, and this will be the 11th consecutive season, that is an embarrassment in my book, not anything you should be proud of. If you aren't winning in your own conference it makes the overall record pretty useless. You make the NCAA's by doing well in your own conference, and if we aren't winning in your conference it makes the CBI or the NIT like kissing your sister....not satisfying at all. The history of Wyoming BB is that they only do well when they are doing well in their conference.

It is almost like now that with the departed Dave Christensen and now with Larry Shyatt, that the only that they point to is the overall record and quietly ignore the conference records......I guess if I were losing season after season, I would ignore them also.

There has to come a time when Wyoming, in either men's BB or football has to win a conference championship again, this drought is ridiculous! If we are going to lose for season after season in our own conference it sure does beg the question, Why are we in a conference that we never have a chance to win?

(P.S. - I do feel that Coach Bohl unlike Coach Christensen understands first and foremost that we need to win the conference championship and then everything after that will take care of itself. It appeared to me that Coach Christensen goal was really to just have a winning overall record and go to an also-ran bowl game somewhere, and then he can toot his horn saying "see we had a winning record and went to a bowl game" aka building a resume. Forgetting all along that we were barely competitive in our own conference. I want Wyoming to win the MWC and then the non-conference schedule take care of itself, and I would bet you anything that if we won the conference championship the non-conference record would be fine and we would be going to a much more prestigious bowl.)

I think the 20 wins do mean something. The previous two coaches, especially Schroyer, also played easy schedules and didn't win 20 games. If you look at overall objective measures like RPI, KenPom, etc., Shyatt's teams have been basically the best we have had since 02-03. It's just not good enough and is really more a reflection of how awful we were in the 8 years prior to his arrival.

I hate to be so negative, because I really like Larry Shyatt, but I am just so disappointed by what has happened. Every time we start to build some momentum we get crushed. In particular, I have been pointing to lack of post depth since last spring when I wondered why we didn't go out and get some JC help (like an AJ West, a-hole that he is, or something similar). If I could see that, why didn't the staff do something about it? That's the root of my frustration.

 

[stymeman]

I'm starting to think our only way of being relevant is the JC or transfer route, maybe????

 

[TSpoke]

The talk of lack of depth and the team falling apart when we lose one person, I agree it sucks and is frusterating but that is what happens when you start to build a program. You can't build depth right away. You have to keep working on it and getting better players every class. Shyatt's first recruitting class is only juniors now so there is going to be a lack of depth on this team. He is building it mainly with freshman that will develope over time. But until we get a couple of years in we will be short on depth. I really beleive we will have more depth next year(but if we are without nance we won't have anyone as good as him)

I remember seeing some story somewhere that had a quote from Coach K that said" Just keep recruiting better players than you did the year before and you will be successful" I think shyatt is doing that esspecially with the most recent class.

 

[NowherePoke]

I'm starting to think our only way of being relevant is the JC or transfer route, maybe????

We have pretty much done that. 4 of our top 7 players this year (Sobey, Cooke, Hankerson, Granberry) were either D-1 transfers or JUCO's. We also have Sellers who is a JC transfer.

There is no right or wrong way in that regard, IMO. Plenty of successful examples built on HS recruits, but also plenty built on transfers and JC's.

WIth the current rash of transfers I think that is an important avenue to be involved with, but finding HS talent and developing it is a key piece as well.

In the end, it's now where you get the players, it's who you get.

 

[TSpoke]

Potato, you do realize had players stayed with the program and not left we would has the depth behind Nance and Cooke that we don't have. Ajayi, Marshall, both would either been starters or contributors behind Nance and Cooke had they stayed. When Ajayi left us high and dry, Shyatt had a very short time to get any big he could get, hence Sellers. Halderson was a top big guy out of Colorado in HS, can't help that he has had an injury and also struggles with weight gain. Some people just can't gain weight no matter what they do in the weight room.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.

Disagree on so many levels:

1. Ajayi and Marshall - First of all, neither of them are any good. Ajayi basically sees Matt Sellers minutes for a mid-tier MAC squad this year and Marshall is a role player at D2 CSU-Pueblo. They would not have helped. In fact, Marshall's departure freed up the scholarship for Derek Cooke, Jr. who was signed that spring to replace Marshall. I believe DC is the better player there.

2. Matt Sellers - Shyatt didn't have a short period of time after Ajayi's departure. He chose to sign Sellers in the fall right after Ajayi's departure but he could have waited until the spring signing period and signed a JC big (Sellers would have still been available) or a transfer. I understand the concept was the Sellers could come to UW right away and red-shirt that 2nd semester to help the transition, but it doesn't work if the talent isn't there.

3. Shakir Smith didn't leave, he was kicked off the team after being convicted of a crime (theft). While that is out of a coach's control (as is whatever Hankerson's issue is), the coach ultimately has the responsibility. If a whole bunch of CSU players were being arrested would you be as charitable? Martinez was not recruited by Shyatt, nor was Washington, so I don't lay those at his feet, but the Smith and Hankerson were.

4. Winning - We are not winning. Barring an unforeseen development we will complete our 11th consecutive season without a winning conference record. That is unprecedented in the history of Wyoming basketball.

I agree, good post. Every program in the country has natural attrition and every coach is well aware that it will happen. At the same time, they all recruit for depth bc of the obvious. It is completely asinine to sit here and think Wyo is the only school in the MW to have these shortcomings! UNLV has had a new roster each of Rice's 3 years and they're doing alright. Let's talk about the character of these kids Shy always talks about.. Seems to me these kids are having more issues than Heath's.. am I wrong? I'm not all that convinced these guys are any better outside of the classroom. Truthfully, I'm REALLY disappointed in seeing this.

It's hard to say in terms of the off the court issues. Martinez and Washington were Schroyer recruits, so the legal problems of Shyatt's recruits are Smith, Hankerson, and to a limited extent Cooke with him being involved in the Martinez incident. Since we don't know exactly what happened with Hank it's hard to say, but if it does involve possession of marijuana as rumored, I just can't get up in arms about it. Stupid? Probably, and we have to follow the laws as they are currently in place, but I just can't designate smoking weed as a character flaw anymore than drinking a beer.

I agree completely.

 

[kdwrightuwyo]

Potato, you do realize had players stayed with the program and not left we would has the depth behind Nance and Cooke that we don't have. Ajayi, Marshall, both would either been starters or contributors behind Nance and Cooke had they stayed. When Ajayi left us high and dry, Shyatt had a very short time to get any big he could get, hence Sellers. Halderson was a top big guy out of Colorado in HS, can't help that he has had an injury and also struggles with weight gain. Some people just can't gain weight no matter what they do in the weight room.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.

Disagree on so many levels:

1. Ajayi and Marshall - First of all, neither of them are any good. Ajayi basically sees Matt Sellers minutes for a mid-tier MAC squad this year and Marshall is a role player at D2 CSU-Pueblo. They would not have helped. In fact, Marshall's departure freed up the scholarship for Derek Cooke, Jr. who was signed that spring to replace Marshall. I believe DC is the better player there.

2. Matt Sellers - Shyatt didn't have a short period of time after Ajayi's departure. He chose to sign Sellers in the fall right after Ajayi's departure but he could have waited until the spring signing period and signed a JC big (Sellers would have still been available) or a transfer. I understand the concept was the Sellers could come to UW right away and red-shirt that 2nd semester to help the transition, but it doesn't work if the talent isn't there.

3. Shakir Smith didn't leave, he was kicked off the team after being convicted of a crime (theft). While that is out of a coach's control (as is whatever Hankerson's issue is), the coach ultimately has the responsibility. If a whole bunch of CSU players were being arrested would you be as charitable? Martinez was not recruited by Shyatt, nor was Washington, so I don't lay those at his feet, but the Smith and Hankerson were.

4. Winning - We are not winning. Barring an unforeseen development we will complete our 11th consecutive season without a winning conference record. That is unprecedented in the history of Wyoming basketball.

I agree, good post. Every program in the country has natural attrition and every coach is well aware that it will happen. At the same time, they all recruit for depth bc of the obvious. It is completely asinine to sit here and think Wyo is the only school in the MW to have these shortcomings! UNLV has had a new roster each of Rice's 3 years and they're doing alright. Let's talk about the character of these kids Shy always talks about.. Seems to me these kids are having more issues than Heath's.. am I wrong? I'm not all that convinced these guys are any better outside of the classroom. Truthfully, I'm REALLY disappointed in seeing this.

It's hard to say in terms of the off the court issues. Martinez and Washington were Schroyer recruits, so the legal problems of Shyatt's recruits are Smith, Hankerson, and to a limited extent Cooke with him being involved in the Martinez incident. Since we don't know exactly what happened with Hank it's hard to say, but if it does involve possession of marijuana as rumored, I just can't get up in arms about it. Stupid? Probably, and we have to follow the laws as they are currently in place, but I just can't designate smoking weed as a character flaw anymore than drinking a beer.

It's still against the law...illegal. Whether it should be or not is not part of the argument. Marijuana is illegal. Period. If, and we don't know for sure, that he was "transporting" IILEGAL drugs across state boundaries, that would make him a criminal. Period. Extremely stupid move, especially, because the states surrounding CO are trying desperately to cut down on the drug trafficking. If he didn't do anything, then I want him proven innocent and back on the team ASAP. If he did do something illegal, then he needs punished accordingly. He needs his day in court.

 

[NowherePoke]

Potato, you do realize had players stayed with the program and not left we would has the depth behind Nance and Cooke that we don't have. Ajayi, Marshall, both would either been starters or contributors behind Nance and Cooke had they stayed. When Ajayi left us high and dry, Shyatt had a very short time to get any big he could get, hence Sellers. Halderson was a top big guy out of Colorado in HS, can't help that he has had an injury and also struggles with weight gain. Some people just can't gain weight no matter what they do in the weight room.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.

Disagree on so many levels:

1. Ajayi and Marshall - First of all, neither of them are any good. Ajayi basically sees Matt Sellers minutes for a mid-tier MAC squad this year and Marshall is a role player at D2 CSU-Pueblo. They would not have helped. In fact, Marshall's departure freed up the scholarship for Derek Cooke, Jr. who was signed that spring to replace Marshall. I believe DC is the better player there.

2. Matt Sellers - Shyatt didn't have a short period of time after Ajayi's departure. He chose to sign Sellers in the fall right after Ajayi's departure but he could have waited until the spring signing period and signed a JC big (Sellers would have still been available) or a transfer. I understand the concept was the Sellers could come to UW right away and red-shirt that 2nd semester to help the transition, but it doesn't work if the talent isn't there.

3. Shakir Smith didn't leave, he was kicked off the team after being convicted of a crime (theft). While that is out of a coach's control (as is whatever Hankerson's issue is), the coach ultimately has the responsibility. If a whole bunch of CSU players were being arrested would you be as charitable? Martinez was not recruited by Shyatt, nor was Washington, so I don't lay those at his feet, but the Smith and Hankerson were.

4. Winning - We are not winning. Barring an unforeseen development we will complete our 11th consecutive season without a winning conference record. That is unprecedented in the history of Wyoming basketball.

I agree, good post. Every program in the country has natural attrition and every coach is well aware that it will happen. At the same time, they all recruit for depth bc of the obvious. It is completely asinine to sit here and think Wyo is the only school in the MW to have these shortcomings! UNLV has had a new roster each of Rice's 3 years and they're doing alright. Let's talk about the character of these kids Shy always talks about.. Seems to me these kids are having more issues than Heath's.. am I wrong? I'm not all that convinced these guys are any better outside of the classroom. Truthfully, I'm REALLY disappointed in seeing this.

It's hard to say in terms of the off the court issues. Martinez and Washington were Schroyer recruits, so the legal problems of Shyatt's recruits are Smith, Hankerson, and to a limited extent Cooke with him being involved in the Martinez incident. Since we don't know exactly what happened with Hank it's hard to say, but if it does involve possession of marijuana as rumored, I just can't get up in arms about it. Stupid? Probably, and we have to follow the laws as they are currently in place, but I just can't designate smoking weed as a character flaw anymore than drinking a beer.

It's still against the law...illegal. Whether it should be or not is not part of the argument. Marijuana is illegal. Period. If, and we don't know for sure, that he was "transporting" IILEGAL drugs across state boundaries, that would make him a criminal. Period. Extremely stupid move, especially, because the states surrounding CO are trying desperately to cut down on the drug trafficking. If he didn't do anything, then I want him proven innocent and back on the team ASAP. If he did do something illegal, then he needs punished accordingly. He needs his day in court.

That is not in question. VisorHair's question, legitimate, was related to the character of the players.

Underage drinking is illegal. Does consuming alcohol underage, which is a crime, reflect upon an individual's character? It might reflect their intellect or more likely their naivete, but I personally do not view consumption of marijuana as a character flaw.

It doesn't mean he shouldn't have to face consequences, as he would for any legal violation, it's just that I don't think are larger scale takeaways regarding the character of the student-athletes in our program that can be inferred from this instance.

On Edit: Or maybe we are all completely off about this based on the recent trib article.

Final Thoughts: I have no idea what is going on with Hankerson's suspension, hope he is able to come back to the team. Ditto for Vernon.

 

[kdwrightuwyo]

I think that willingly breaking the law is a character flaw. But that's just me.

I, too, hope that things get cleared up and that both young men learn from their mistakes (whatever they are) and can return to the team and be an integral part of the Cowboy's next step forward from here.

 

[NowherePoke]

I think that willingly breaking the law is a character flaw. But that's just me.

I, too, hope that things get cleared up and that both young men learn from their mistakes (whatever they are) and can return to the team and be an integral part of the Cowboy's next step forward from here.

You sir are a better man than I, or at least a more law-abiding one than the man I was at age 18-20.

 

[kdwrightuwyo]

I didn't say I don't do things. I only drank like three times before turning 21, and then only got drunk once. Never did drugs. I do speed while driving all the time, and have been caught/ticketed a few times. We all have those flaws. It's human nature. Still have to hold people accountable.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

I didn't say I don't do things. I only got drank like three times before turning 21, and then only got drunk once. Never did drugs. I do speed all the time, and have been caught/ticketed a few times. We all have those flaws, it's human nature. Still have to hold people accountable.

 

[BackHarlowRoad]

I didn't say I don't do things. I only got drank like three times before turning 21, and then only got drunk once. Never did drugs. I do speed all the time, and have been caught/ticketed a few times. We all have those flaws, it's human nature. Still have to hold people accountable.

LMAO! :lol:

 

[VisorHair]

Potato, you do realize had players stayed with the program and not left we would has the depth behind Nance and Cooke that we don't have. Ajayi, Marshall, both would either been starters or contributors behind Nance and Cooke had they stayed. When Ajayi left us high and dry, Shyatt had a very short time to get any big he could get, hence Sellers. Halderson was a top big guy out of Colorado in HS, can't help that he has had an injury and also struggles with weight gain. Some people just can't gain weight no matter what they do in the weight room.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.

Disagree on so many levels:

1. Ajayi and Marshall - First of all, neither of them are any good. Ajayi basically sees Matt Sellers minutes for a mid-tier MAC squad this year and Marshall is a role player at D2 CSU-Pueblo. They would not have helped. In fact, Marshall's departure freed up the scholarship for Derek Cooke, Jr. who was signed that spring to replace Marshall. I believe DC is the better player there.

2. Matt Sellers - Shyatt didn't have a short period of time after Ajayi's departure. He chose to sign Sellers in the fall right after Ajayi's departure but he could have waited until the spring signing period and signed a JC big (Sellers would have still been available) or a transfer. I understand the concept was the Sellers could come to UW right away and red-shirt that 2nd semester to help the transition, but it doesn't work if the talent isn't there.

3. Shakir Smith didn't leave, he was kicked off the team after being convicted of a crime (theft). While that is out of a coach's control (as is whatever Hankerson's issue is), the coach ultimately has the responsibility. If a whole bunch of CSU players were being arrested would you be as charitable? Martinez was not recruited by Shyatt, nor was Washington, so I don't lay those at his feet, but the Smith and Hankerson were.

4. Winning - We are not winning. Barring an unforeseen development we will complete our 11th consecutive season without a winning conference record. That is unprecedented in the history of Wyoming basketball.

I agree, good post. Every program in the country has natural attrition and every coach is well aware that it will happen. At the same time, they all recruit for depth bc of the obvious. It is completely asinine to sit here and think Wyo is the only school in the MW to have these shortcomings! UNLV has had a new roster each of Rice's 3 years and they're doing alright. Let's talk about the character of these kids Shy always talks about.. Seems to me these kids are having more issues than Heath's.. am I wrong? I'm not all that convinced these guys are any better outside of the classroom. Truthfully, I'm REALLY disappointed in seeing this.

It's hard to say in terms of the off the court issues. Martinez and Washington were Schroyer recruits, so the legal problems of Shyatt's recruits are Smith, Hankerson, and to a limited extent Cooke with him being involved in the Martinez incident. Since we don't know exactly what happened with Hank it's hard to say, but if it does involve possession of marijuana as rumored, I just can't get up in arms about it. Stupid? Probably, and we have to follow the laws as they are currently in place, but I just can't designate smoking weed as a character flaw anymore than drinking a beer.

It's still against the law...illegal. Whether it should be or not is not part of the argument. Marijuana is illegal. Period. If, and we don't know for sure, that he was "transporting" IILEGAL drugs across state boundaries, that would make him a criminal. Period. Extremely stupid move, especially, because the states surrounding CO are trying desperately to cut down on the drug trafficking. If he didn't do anything, then I want him proven innocent and back on the team ASAP. If he did do something illegal, then he needs punished accordingly. He needs his day in court.

That is not in question. VisorHair's question, legitimate, was related to the character of the players.

Underage drinking is illegal. Does consuming alcohol underage, which is a crime, reflect upon an individual's character? It might reflect their intellect or more likely their naivete, but I personally do not view consumption of marijuana as a character flaw.

It doesn't mean he shouldn't have to face consequences, as he would for any legal violation, it's just that I don't think are larger scale takeaways regarding the character of the student-athletes in our program that can be inferred from this instance.

On Edit: Or maybe we are all completely off about this based on the recent trib article.

Final Thoughts: I have no idea what is going on with Hankerson's suspension, hope he is able to come back to the team. Ditto for Vernon.

Listen, I'm not saying the kid is a horrible person for possessing weed and I think almost all of us can agree on it. BUT, you have to pick your battles wisely as a student-athlete anddddd this doesn't seem to be the case here. If it's just a possession ticket he should be ecstatic rather than an "intent to distribute" ticket by bringing it over the state line and whatnot. He knew it wasn't smart and risked it - that in itself is selfish.

 

[laxwyo]

Papa shy has us on a path. Last year was good, this year we finish 5th.