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Big Men
- Thread starter ProudWYOAlum
- Start date
wyoav211933
Well-known member
I honestly don't think any fans are satisfied being perennial CBI participants or are suggesting that is all we'll ever be capable of. I too am a little disappointed that's Shyatt's rebuild isn't moving a bit faster, and actually I find it acceptable to give Shyatt some heat regarding how our lack of big men has put us in a tight spot now, but there have been a lot of factors that have happened outside of Shyatt's control that has stopped us short of the big dance or NIT. Having a bunch of guys walk out of the program hurt, but Shyatt still got the program to a point where we were nationally ranked. Martinez made dumb choices and ended up never playing for us again, but Shyatt not only recovered, he actually got the team ready and they played more competitively in the conference, beat the #5 team in the nation, got us on track to finish 3rd in the conference and gave us cause to believe for a moment that we could've got the automatic bid to the NCAAT until his best player was no longer in play for the 2nd consecutive season.
Not everything Shyatt's done here has been perfect, but unlike the other CBI years or years we made small bowl games in FB, this team has actually gotten better every single season instead of following a postseason appearance with a crappy following season. Sure, the improvement is maybe a bit slower than I would've liked, but I feel a coach overall has done a good job if his team gets better with each coming year.
Not everything Shyatt's done here has been perfect, but unlike the other CBI years or years we made small bowl games in FB, this team has actually gotten better every single season instead of following a postseason appearance with a crappy following season. Sure, the improvement is maybe a bit slower than I would've liked, but I feel a coach overall has done a good job if his team gets better with each coming year.
BackHarlowRoad
Well-known member
NP, wrong thread
Duke was ready to run Coach K off back in the 1980s before he finally made a Final Four.
I think that if we look past the wins and losses, which are admittedly critical, I think we can see that the development of players over the course of their careers since Coach Shyatt arrived demonstrates that we are on the right track.
I also think we are too quickly forgetting that we got into the Top 25 last year. Sure the season fell apart once Martinez decided to play soccer with someone's head. However, that brief visit to the Top 25 showed me that we now have a staff that can get there. That was not always the case since the departure of the Davis & McFall class.
Finally, I am bothered by calls to purge the roster. We do have APR considerations and a past history of loosing scholarships to think about. I also remember the question of whether year-to-year scholarships should even be allowed was part of the recent NCAA comprehensive review discussion. I believe that a student-athlete should be able to count on a certain level of financial aid for the full four-years required to complete a degree before committing to attend a school given the consequences associated with that commitment. It boils down to an ethics issue in my mind.
I think that if we look past the wins and losses, which are admittedly critical, I think we can see that the development of players over the course of their careers since Coach Shyatt arrived demonstrates that we are on the right track.
I also think we are too quickly forgetting that we got into the Top 25 last year. Sure the season fell apart once Martinez decided to play soccer with someone's head. However, that brief visit to the Top 25 showed me that we now have a staff that can get there. That was not always the case since the departure of the Davis & McFall class.
Finally, I am bothered by calls to purge the roster. We do have APR considerations and a past history of loosing scholarships to think about. I also remember the question of whether year-to-year scholarships should even be allowed was part of the recent NCAA comprehensive review discussion. I believe that a student-athlete should be able to count on a certain level of financial aid for the full four-years required to complete a degree before committing to attend a school given the consequences associated with that commitment. It boils down to an ethics issue in my mind.
kansasCowboy said:
Halderson: What fan in the stands knows what he can do? The coaches must because you rarely see him.
Cooke: Not a basketball-intelligent player. Just an opportunist when a dunk is available. Does not himself create opportunities. Rebounding his only skill. FTing certainly not.
Sellers: So far just a waste. Too bad. He is probably a nice person. Just not a D-1 player. I feel sorry for him.
Just to clarify, my expectations for this year were never very high because of how small our front line was and how shallow it was--even at full strength. In my mind, Sellers is the only player on the roster with a true 4/5 body but he is too slow.
On a different note, does anyone remember how many years it took us to get an Uche on the roster--and that was due, in part, to the presence of Ugo. I do miss the days when we had 5+ guys that were 6'8", 225+ on the roster. I like dominating the glass and doing so can cover up a multitude of other deficiencies.
On a different note, does anyone remember how many years it took us to get an Uche on the roster--and that was due, in part, to the presence of Ugo. I do miss the days when we had 5+ guys that were 6'8", 225+ on the roster. I like dominating the glass and doing so can cover up a multitude of other deficiencies.
WyoExpat said:
New Mexico this year is a good example of that. It is very difficult to recruit quality big men - because every team in the country wants to do that and there aren't that many around. For that reason, you wind up taking a chance on some. Some on this board are thinking - if others in this conference can do it, why can't we. The reason is the quality bigs can pick and choose where they want to go and one of the things they look at is successful programs. Wyoming is having a hell of a time putting together successful consecutive seasons due to the incidents we have had the last couple of years and the poor coaching prior to our latest coaching change. We just need our luck to get a little better so we don't have these season killing incidents and we can put some successful seasons together. Until then, we better have some patience.
ProudWYOAlum
Well-known member
I believe Shyatt is the right guy for this job. Without an unfortunate torn ACL, we are probably talking a 22-25 win season and an NIT or NCAA tourney berth.
Our bad luck has got to end next season, right?
Our bad luck has got to end next season, right?
NowherePoke
Well-known member
ProudWYOAlum said:
I think we had a shot at the NIT, but it was certainly not a guarantee. Only NCAA chance was winning the MWCT which was a long shot obviously. Still, it would have built some positive momentum. I think the Pokes would have won 20 regular season games, at least one in the MWCT to end up a 21 win possible NIT team. That would have been a foundation to build upon going into next year with 4 senior starters and 6 of the top 8 rotation players back.
That's all gone now. This year is f'd. For next year, we can't realistically expect Nance to come back in November and be the same player. He will either need to redshirt next season or possibly miss the early part of the year and might not be the same player for a while (plus, I would really hate for him to come back too soon, he has a bright professional future IMO). Now it looks like another projected starter (Hankerson) may be at risk of not coming back and I am concerned about the availability of two projected bench contributors (Vernon and Washington).
It's amazing how bad the last week+ has been. To top it off, it has confirmed our fears/suspicions regarding some of the players that weren't seeing playing time (turns out they do not have the ability to contribute at this point and they aren't freshman). Things look pretty bleak.
fromolwyoming
Well-known member
Nance may need to take a year off, but it depends on how well and quickly he recovers from surgery. Some people can recover quicker from surgery than others. It all depends on the individual.
PotatoCreekPete
Well-known member
ProudWYOAlum said:
New Mexico and San Diego St. have both lost important players in the last couple of year but did it stop them? No
You accept the fact that Wyoming if they lose an important player that we are done, just put a fork in us! That is because we are done because Coach Shyatt has not brought in any adequate depth for at least 2 years now. Please don't mention players that are redshirting or have signed and not joined the team as yet because that doesn't address recruiting mistakes over the last 2 years that find the Pokes season going down the drain due to no depth.
The word "IF" is for losers! If only Hankerson hadn't gotten a fondness for some weed, or if Nance hadn't been injured or Martinez hadn't gone into that bar.....
How about IF Shyatt had recruited someone other than Sellers and Haldorson that would have actually been able to contribute and if there had been someone other than Cooke at the other big man spot that could actually shoot.
Shyatt knew that there wasn't any depth behind Nance and Cooke and yet he didn't do anything about it.
Shyatt is an outstanding coach but his recruiting has not been up to par in my opinion, and the lack of depth that this team is experiencing in the 3rd year is like a huge light being shown on it.
The bad luck is when this program has enough depth to actually play and continue to win even if a player or two goes down....until that time we will most likely be saying....."wait until next year" or "when does spring ball start?"
kansasCowboy
Well-known member
Potato, you do realize had players stayed with the program and not left we would has the depth behind Nance and Cooke that we don't have. Ajayi, Marshall, both would either been starters or contributors behind Nance and Cooke had they stayed. When Ajayi left us high and dry, Shyatt had a very short time to get any big he could get, hence Sellers. Halderson was a top big guy out of Colorado in HS, can't help that he has had an injury and also struggles with weight gain. Some people just can't gain weight no matter what they do in the weight room.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.
Players choices, Martinez and Hankerson. Players leaving, Ajayi, Marshall, Shakir. And player injuries, Nance, Halderson, and Sellers is all why we are where we are. These are all issues that is out of a coaches control.
And yet even with this adversity we've had three winning seasons in a row. Credit Coach Shy and his staff. Also credit the players who have stayed and made a name for themselves, Grabau, Adams, Nance, Cooke, Leonard Washington, Sobey, etc.
We are a rising program, regardless of the adversity of the top three issues, we are winning, we are competing, win or lose. For the first time in a long time we are giving top competition more than they can handle. Wyoming basketball is slowly becoming relevant again.
NowherePoke
Well-known member
kansasCowboy said:
Disagree on so many levels:
1. Ajayi and Marshall - First of all, neither of them are any good. Ajayi basically sees Matt Sellers minutes for a mid-tier MAC squad this year and Marshall is a role player at D2 CSU-Pueblo. They would not have helped. In fact, Marshall's departure freed up the scholarship for Derek Cooke, Jr. who was signed that spring to replace Marshall. I believe DC is the better player there.
2. Matt Sellers - Shyatt didn't have a short period of time after Ajayi's departure. He chose to sign Sellers in the fall right after Ajayi's departure but he could have waited until the spring signing period and signed a JC big (Sellers would have still been available) or a transfer. I understand the concept was the Sellers could come to UW right away and red-shirt that 2nd semester to help the transition, but it doesn't work if the talent isn't there.
3. Shakir Smith didn't leave, he was kicked off the team after being convicted of a crime (theft). While that is out of a coach's control (as is whatever Hankerson's issue is), the coach ultimately has the responsibility. If a whole bunch of CSU players were being arrested would you be as charitable? Martinez was not recruited by Shyatt, nor was Washington, so I don't lay those at his feet, but the Smith and Hankerson were.
4. Winning - We are not winning. Barring an unforeseen development we will complete our 11th consecutive season without a winning conference record. That is unprecedented in the history of Wyoming basketball.
PotatoCreekPete
Well-known member
NowherePoke said:
Nowhere, you made all excellent points. I love it when some people point to the fact that Wyoming has won 20 games in a season, back to back and how rare that is. But with the coaches setting up the non-conference schedules, just about any coach would have 20 wins at Wyoming when you schedule so many softies, and just a few hard ones like CU and Ohio St.. But as you most correctly pointed out, the rubber meets the road during the conference season and there we are still posting a losing record, year after year, and this will be the 11th consecutive season, that is an embarrassment in my book, not anything you should be proud of. If you aren't winning in your own conference it makes the overall record pretty useless. You make the NCAA's by doing well in your own conference, and if we aren't winning in your conference it makes the CBI or the NIT like kissing your sister....not satisfying at all. The history of Wyoming BB is that they only do well when they are doing well in their conference.
It is almost like now that with the departed Dave Christensen and now with Larry Shyatt, that the only that they point to is the overall record and quietly ignore the conference records......I guess if I were losing season after season, I would ignore them also.
There has to come a time when Wyoming, in either men's BB or football has to win a conference championship again, this drought is ridiculous! If we are going to lose for season after season in our own conference it sure does beg the question, Why are we in a conference that we never have a chance to win?
(P.S. - I do feel that Coach Bohl unlike Coach Christensen understands first and foremost that we need to win the conference championship and then everything after that will take care of itself. It appeared to me that Coach Christensen goal was really to just have a winning overall record and go to an also-ran bowl game somewhere, and then he can toot his horn saying "see we had a winning record and went to a bowl game" aka building a resume. Forgetting all along that we were barely competitive in our own conference. I want Wyoming to win the MWC and then the non-conference schedule take care of itself, and I would bet you anything that if we won the conference championship the non-conference record would be fine and we would be going to a much more prestigious bowl.)
VisorHair
Well-known member
NowherePoke said:
I agree, good post. Every program in the country has natural attrition and every coach is well aware that it will happen. At the same time, they all recruit for depth bc of the obvious. It is completely asinine to sit here and think Wyo is the only school in the MW to have these shortcomings! UNLV has had a new roster each of Rice's 3 years and they're doing alright. Let's talk about the character of these kids Shy always talks about.. Seems to me these kids are having more issues than Heath's.. am I wrong? I'm not all that convinced these guys are any better outside of the classroom. Truthfully, I'm REALLY disappointed in seeing this.
JimmyDimes
Well-known member
Pretty sure we were winning and in 3rd place prior to 2 unforeseen incidents that affected our season. You sound as if you expected this to happen.NowherePoke said:
fromolwyoming
Well-known member
:thumb:WYO1016 said:
