Bad News

[NowherePoke]

I wish I could be as optimistic as most of you about what the future holds for the program under Linder. In the next 30 days we will be down to five, maybe six players on scholarship for next year. That leaves a lot of recruiting to be done and more than likely without your best recruiter. Bringing in new coach that can recruit and trying to find 6-8 new players will not be easy. I hope that I am wrong, but I can't see how next year gets better.

I doubt DeWeese will leave, but I guess we will see.

I know you meant Rodgers but in what world is he our best recruiter? He was responsible for Kyman/Max/EA and that’s it on this years team. I would rather have the guys responsible for Ike, Reynolds, Oden, DuSell, etc.

Linder brought in 9 players in the midst of COVID in 2020 and due to transfer the median number of new roster additions across D-1 has to be over 5 by now. It’s not ideal to have to bring in 6-8, but that’s like in 2023.

 

[307bball]

That one sided account is exactly what this will be judged on.... unfortunately... That is the reality. It's not right or wrong.... It just is. Reputations ride on this stuff.

The upshot of what I was saying is basically, "Who really gives a f-ck?". Some SoCal AAU "facilitator who's probably taking money left and right from agents is going to stop sending "his" players to schools because they, ostensibly, didn't like the experience is going to run short of "clients" in short order in the age of the portal. Much ado about little d-ck discoveries...

I get that upshot...and I hope your view of it reflects the reality and totality of this situation. You may be completely right about "some SoCal AAU facilitator"...but I don't think you are right about the landscape surrounding those people. There is enough money and motivated programs and shoe companies and hangers-on that to just wave our hands and dismiss the "well-poisoning" effect of these types of incidents is short sighted. If this was Linder's 12th year with multiple NCAA bids and MWC championships ... that's a different story. We just aren't in that position.

 

[LanderPoke]

Stats for the transfers

Anderson:
GP MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TO FG% FT% 3P%
21 25.0 7.9 4.3 2.9 0.3 0.2 2.0 54.0 46.6 31.3

Agbonkpolo
16 15.9 5.4 2.8 0.8 0.6 0.4 1.4 37.6 68.8 30.0

Kyman
18 12.7 4.5 1.6 0.6 0.4 0.1 0.8 36.7 100.0 26.8


IMO none played very good D. I liked Anderson on offense and wish he would have stayed. But he's a quitter so whatever. bye bye


I had it formatted it nicely, but hit submit and it looks terrible, sorry.

 

[307bball]

Stats for the transfers

Anderson:
GP MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TO FG% FT% 3P%
21 25.0 7.9 4.3 2.9 0.3 0.2 2.0 54.0 46.6 31.3

Agbonkpolo
16 15.9 5.4 2.8 0.8 0.6 0.4 1.4 37.6 68.8 30.0

Kyman
18 12.7 4.5 1.6 0.6 0.4 0.1 0.8 36.7 100.0 26.8


IMO none played very good D. I liked Anderson on offense and wish he would have stayed. But he's a quitter so whatever. bye bye


I had it formatted it nicely, but hit submit and it looks terrible, sorry.

Yeah.... The actual productivity lost is really meager. The damage here is reputational.

 

[flyfishwyo]

Stats for the transfers

Anderson:
GP MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TO FG% FT% 3P%
21 25.0 7.9 4.3 2.9 0.3 0.2 2.0 54.0 46.6 31.3

Agbonkpolo
16 15.9 5.4 2.8 0.8 0.6 0.4 1.4 37.6 68.8 30.0

Kyman
18 12.7 4.5 1.6 0.6 0.4 0.1 0.8 36.7 100.0 26.8


IMO none played very good D. I liked Anderson on offense and wish he would have stayed. But he's a quitter so whatever. bye bye


I had it formatted it nicely, but hit submit and it looks terrible, sorry.

Yeah.... The actual productivity lost is really meager. The damage here is reputational.

Earlier this year I took a look at their per minute production. I didn't keep the numbers or I'd share them. Kyman and Agbonkpolo's stats didn't justify any more time on the court. If I rember correctly, Kyman doesn't shoot well enough and Agbonkpolo was a turnover machine who also didn't shoot well enough. Anderson was on-par with the rest of the team.

 

[LanderPoke]

Yeah.... The actual productivity lost is really meager. The damage here is reputational.

Earlier this year I took a look at their per minute production. I didn't keep the numbers or I'd share them. Kyman and Agbonkpolo's stats didn't justify any more time on the court. If I rember correctly, Kyman doesn't shoot well enough and Agbonkpolo was a turnover machine who also didn't shoot well enough. Anderson was on-par with the rest of the team.

What struck me was those three were DFL on the team in 3 point shooting %. Linder values shooting and defense and those three stunk at both. Hope Linder has learned his lesson about fitting square pegs in round holes.

 

[Wyovanian]

The upshot of what I was saying is basically, "Who really gives a f-ck?". Some SoCal AAU "facilitator who's probably taking money left and right from agents is going to stop sending "his" players to schools because they, ostensibly, didn't like the experience is going to run short of "clients" in short order in the age of the portal. Much ado about little d-ck discoveries...

I get that upshot...and I hope your view of it reflects the reality and totality of this situation. You may be completely right about "some SoCal AAU facilitator"...but I don't think you are right about the landscape surrounding those people. There is enough money and motivated programs and shoe companies and hangers-on that to just wave our hands and dismiss the "well-poisoning" effect of these types of incidents is short sighted. If this was Linder's 12th year with multiple NCAA bids and MWC championships ... that's a different story. We just aren't in that position.

⁸
We are still very early in the era of NIL and the transfer portal, and we're seeing example after example of buyers' remorse and unmet expectations. I think there's a pattern of diminishing return emerging. No one was throwing NIL offers at any one of those three, and no one will. They'll be fortunate if any of them are playing D1 Basketball next season, as most programs are going to take a caveat emptor perspective with them. They've done as much, if not more damage to themselves as they have to UW Basketball.

 

[Wyovanian]

Stats for the transfers

Anderson:
GP MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TO FG% FT% 3P%
21 25.0 7.9 4.3 2.9 0.3 0.2 2.0 54.0 46.6 31.3

Agbonkpolo
16 15.9 5.4 2.8 0.8 0.6 0.4 1.4 37.6 68.8 30.0

Kyman
18 12.7 4.5 1.6 0.6 0.4 0.1 0.8 36.7 100.0 26.8


IMO none played very good D. I liked Anderson on offense and wish he would have stayed. But he's a quitter so whatever. bye bye


I had it formatted it nicely, but hit submit and it looks terrible, sorry.

Yeah.... The actual productivity lost is really meager. The damage here is reputational.

You're right, but whose reputation was really damaged?

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I get that upshot...and I hope your view of it reflects the reality and totality of this situation. You may be completely right about "some SoCal AAU facilitator"...but I don't think you are right about the landscape surrounding those people. There is enough money and motivated programs and shoe companies and hangers-on that to just wave our hands and dismiss the "well-poisoning" effect of these types of incidents is short sighted. If this was Linder's 12th year with multiple NCAA bids and MWC championships ... that's a different story. We just aren't in that position.

⁸
We are still very early in the era of NIL and the transfer portal, and we're seeing example after example of buyers' remorse and unmet expectations. I think there's a pattern of diminishing return emerging. No one was throwing NIL offers at any one of those three, and no one will. They'll be fortunate if any of them are playing D1 Basketball next season, as most programs are going to take a caveat emptor perspective with them. They've done as much, if not more damage to themselves as they have to UW Basketball.

I'd say this is probably accurate.

I suspect that Ethan Anderson might get a scholarship offer from some small Division 1 program (like a Big West Cal-State Northridge type) but the best I predict for the other 2 from a Division 1 school considering the upside/downside is a walk-on invitation being seniors with 2 former schools. It will be interesting to follow. But it is possible their D1 collegiate basketball careers are effectively over.

They also purportedly decided not to finish out the semester at Wyoming and hopped a plane back to Cal...so, if true, their academic transcripts are certainly going to suffer and that will be another hurdle/flag.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

I get that upshot...and I hope your view of it reflects the reality and totality of this situation. You may be completely right about "some SoCal AAU facilitator"...but I don't think you are right about the landscape surrounding those people. There is enough money and motivated programs and shoe companies and hangers-on that to just wave our hands and dismiss the "well-poisoning" effect of these types of incidents is short sighted. If this was Linder's 12th year with multiple NCAA bids and MWC championships ... that's a different story. We just aren't in that position.

⁸
We are still very early in the era of NIL and the transfer portal, and we're seeing example after example of buyers' remorse and unmet expectations. I think there's a pattern of diminishing return emerging. No one was throwing NIL offers at any one of those three, and no one will. They'll be fortunate if any of them are playing D1 Basketball next season, as most programs are going to take a caveat emptor perspective with them. They've done as much, if not more damage to themselves as they have to UW Basketball.

I don't think they can play D1 basketball next season. Per NCAA rules, you only get 1 "free" transfer. That means they will have to either A) transfer to a different division, or B) go to another D1 school and sit a year before being eligible.

Being dismissed from the team as opposed to transferring might change this, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are out of luck.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

⁸
We are still very early in the era of NIL and the transfer portal, and we're seeing example after example of buyers' remorse and unmet expectations. I think there's a pattern of diminishing return emerging. No one was throwing NIL offers at any one of those three, and no one will. They'll be fortunate if any of them are playing D1 Basketball next season, as most programs are going to take a caveat emptor perspective with them. They've done as much, if not more damage to themselves as they have to UW Basketball.

I don't think they can play D1 basketball next season. Per NCAA rules, you only get 1 "free" transfer. That means they will have to either A) transfer to a different division, or B) go to another D1 school and sit a year before being eligible.

Being dismissed from the team as opposed to transferring might change this, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are out of luck.

I believe this is exactly why the release was ‘dismissed’ vs ‘quit.’ It sounds like they actually quit and left their teammates hanging from some media folks in the know. But by being ‘dismissed’ I believe they will qualify for a transfer waiver.

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

Stats for the transfers

Anderson:
GP MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TO FG% FT% 3P%
21 25.0 7.9 4.3 2.9 0.3 0.2 2.0 54.0 46.6 31.3

Agbonkpolo
16 15.9 5.4 2.8 0.8 0.6 0.4 1.4 37.6 68.8 30.0

Kyman
18 12.7 4.5 1.6 0.6 0.4 0.1 0.8 36.7 100.0 26.8


IMO none played very good D. I liked Anderson on offense and wish he would have stayed. But he's a quitter so whatever. bye bye


I had it formatted it nicely, but hit submit and it looks terrible, sorry.

Yeah.... The actual productivity lost is really meager. The damage here is reputational.

Another way to look at it is Linder is building a disciplined program and some guys are not going to make the grade. It may have a great effect. In a year it’ll be a distant memory.

 

[flyfishwyo]

Stats for the transfers

Anderson:
GP MIN PTS REB AST STL BLK TO FG% FT% 3P%
21 25.0 7.9 4.3 2.9 0.3 0.2 2.0 54.0 46.6 31.3

Agbonkpolo
16 15.9 5.4 2.8 0.8 0.6 0.4 1.4 37.6 68.8 30.0

Kyman
18 12.7 4.5 1.6 0.6 0.4 0.1 0.8 36.7 100.0 26.8


IMO none played very good D. I liked Anderson on offense and wish he would have stayed. But he's a quitter so whatever. bye bye


I had it formatted it nicely, but hit submit and it looks terrible, sorry.

Yeah.... The actual productivity lost is really meager. The damage here is reputational.

Maybe. I'm interested to see what the fallout will actually be. If this happens every year it could be a hit to our reputation. As it sits now it seems pretty minimal. The parents and AAU community in SoCal are pretty pissed. Other than that I don't see much pushback.

 

[ZapPoke]

The parents and AAU community in SoCal are pretty pissed. Other than that I don't see much pushback.

I’m not on any social media. What are you seeing? Did they quit or were they told to leave?

 

[Itsux2beaewe]

The parents and AAU community in SoCal are pretty pissed. Other than that I don't see much pushback.

I’m not on any social media. What are you seeing? Did they quit or were they told to leave?

The link earlier in this thread leads me to believe they were cut from the program.

 

[laxwyo]

I get that upshot...and I hope your view of it reflects the reality and totality of this situation. You may be completely right about "some SoCal AAU facilitator"...but I don't think you are right about the landscape surrounding those people. There is enough money and motivated programs and shoe companies and hangers-on that to just wave our hands and dismiss the "well-poisoning" effect of these types of incidents is short sighted. If this was Linder's 12th year with multiple NCAA bids and MWC championships ... that's a different story. We just aren't in that position.

⁸
We are still very early in the era of NIL and the transfer portal, and we're seeing example after example of buyers' remorse and unmet expectations. I think there's a pattern of diminishing return emerging. No one was throwing NIL offers at any one of those three, and no one will. They'll be fortunate if any of them are playing D1 Basketball next season, as most programs are going to take a caveat emptor perspective with them. They've done as much, if not more damage to themselves as they have to UW Basketball.

When you lose players early, you just can't replace them all with high school players. You'll need to hit on some transfers.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I’m not on any social media. What are you seeing? Did they quit or were they told to leave?

The link earlier in this thread leads me to believe they were cut from the program.

This was an early tweet. While this seems unlikely to me (threats), I read this as they could have pushed through the rest of the season but chose not to.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AthletWhisperer/status/1623462650800910336?cxt=HHwWgMDR8b2r2YctAAAA

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I’m not on any social media. What are you seeing? Did they quit or were they told to leave?

The link earlier in this thread leads me to believe they were cut from the program.

Cody Tucker has pretty good sources it seems and can’t imagine he’d say this without some real information.

https://mobile.twitter.com/7220sports/status/1623486328376815617

 

[OrediggerPoke]

⁸
We are still very early in the era of NIL and the transfer portal, and we're seeing example after example of buyers' remorse and unmet expectations. I think there's a pattern of diminishing return emerging. No one was throwing NIL offers at any one of those three, and no one will. They'll be fortunate if any of them are playing D1 Basketball next season, as most programs are going to take a caveat emptor perspective with them. They've done as much, if not more damage to themselves as they have to UW Basketball.

When you lose players early, you just can't replace them all with high school players. You'll need to hit on some transfers.

Could be JUCO guys. Before the transfer portal, Linder used JUCOs at Northern Colorado and hit the jackpot with Drake Jeffries here.

 

[Poke in New England]

I’m not on any social media. What are you seeing? Did they quit or were they told to leave?

The link earlier in this thread leads me to believe they were cut from the program.

Per 7220 sports, sources in LA and Laramie confirmed it was the players decision to leave.