Bad coaches fail at UW, good coaches move on.

[BeaverPoke]

I talked to a guy MUCH older than probably anyone on this message board yesterday. He has seen a lot of Wyoming sports in his life, hell he might have gone to school with Kenny Sailors for all I know, that's how long he has been around.

Him and I were talking about the firing of DC, and he seemed kind of irritated about it.
It wasn't because we fired him, but because we had another failed head coach.

He said, "bad coaches always fail at UW, and good coaches always move on to bigger schools".
And I get it, there aren't many people out there that their dream job is coaching the Wyoming Cowboys. Well there is, but we are all on this board
But with that in mind, I don't think we need to go find a guy who wants to be here in 20 years.
I think, until we have CONTINUED success THIS MILLENNIUM, we need to find the coach who wants to be at a Pac12 or Big12 school in 4 years.

I understand that turning a football program around is a big deal and takes time. But the good ones can do it quicker than others.

If we hire a Jeff Tedford, who has had good success in the past as a head coach, and likely wants to be back in a BCS conference, I think that is the right way to go.

I mean, Wyoming has some talent on offense right now, especially at QB (Smith and Thompson). Tedford could come in and win some games, and do it right away.
Will we beat Michigan State and Oregon? Probably not, but will we beat Montana, FAU, and multiple MWC teams? Probably.

If we get a Tedford to come in, coach for Bretts senior year, then Thompsons 2 seasons, and Tedford leave for a bigger program, GOOD.
That means, he was successful.
Then, we need to hire another coach in a similar position (assuming Tedford can recruit some more talent on both sides of the ball).
If that guy comes in for 3-4 seasons and leaves for another BCS program, that will mean Wyo has had some continues success over the course of 5-7 seasons.
Only then will we be able to start thinking about getting some big names that want to be here for the long haul.

Maybe by then there will be some Javon Bouknights, or Brian Hendricks ready to take over a program.

And in this post, you can replace Tedford with Orgeron, Pellini, Mangino, etc.

We need to have back to back short spurts of success before we can have continued success.

Thoughts?

 

[KansasPoke]

Tedford is at the age he would likely indeed jump to greener pastures with success imo. Mangino may stay quite a long time pending health. He wasn't looking to leave Kansas and probably is one of those rare coaches that likes staying in one spot. I think he also realizes he isn't what the elite programs look for anyways from a marketable standpoint. He just is a ball coach plain and simple.

Would one of those FCS be willing to stick around for awhile? That would be a good question but none the less if they had success, that would be all we could ask for.

Top of the line coordinators would most likely use this job as a stepping stone job unless this was their dream job.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Yeah, and I am not looking for the savior of Wyo football right now.
That is asking for a miracle.
I want Tedford who will come in and win right away, selling recruits on Wyo. Win some more, recruiting even better athletes in year 2. Then if he jumps ship after 3 seasons, GREAT. Then we need to hire someone in the same position as him.

We need someone who can use this as a stepping stone to a better job right now.
Yes, I want someone who will come in and be the coach for the next 20 years, but that isn't going to happen.
Get someone to win right away. When he leaves, get someone else to win right away.
Only then can we look for a 10 year type of coach.

 

[Bryoming]

Mangino may stay quite a long time pending health. He wasn't looking to leave Kansas and probably is one of those rare coaches that likes staying in one spot.

Yeah, he looks like he doesn't like to move.

 

[CowboyNV]

I just read an article over on the Boomerang that said Burman wants to get back to being "Cowboy tough." He also said he isn't going to use a search firm to help with the hire. This is the scariest thing he said in the article:

"The AD even said it’s unlikely that candidates will be brought to Laramie for interviews. Instead, Burman will go meet them. And he said he’ll rely on current staff as well as people like former UW coach Joe Tiller for advice. A consulting firm hired to study UW athletics recently concluded that coaching salaries, especially for assistants, were far below the rest of the Mountain West."

Now, if I am Coach (insert any name here) and Wyoming comes calling, I would probably like to visit the campus and see the facilities, meet some of the coaching staff still on the payroll, maybe even talk to some kids to get a feel BEFORE I COMMIT TO WORKING FOR BURMAN.

Is this guy a total fucking moron or what. Nobody, and I mean nobody with a brain, will take this job without spending a few hours checking shit out. Anyway, read the article for yourself and then maybe let me know if I'm missing something here. It seems Tommy boy wants this done now.

http://www.wyosports.net/university_of_wyoming/football/burman-begins-task-of-finding-next-football-coach-for-wyoming/article_d163d526-5bd9-11e3-9a80-001a4bcf887a.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ELKMT]

The argument could be made that good coaches leave all schools ( few exceptions). Some of the best coaches in the game leave championship level teams. It is how college football works and how many coaches operate. Saban left a championship level team ( LSU) for the NFL. Does that mean LSU is a stepping stone? Urban Myer "retired" from a multiple championship run at Florida just to take a job at OSU a year later.

Wyoming fans shouldn't have an obsession over coaches leaving, because it going to happen at all levels of the sport.

Ps: Nick Saban could leave Alabama at some point as crazy as it sounds.

 

[BeaverPoke]

I don't think coaches really need to come and see the facilities to know they are nice.
The coaching world is extremely connected to eachother, and know all about what other schools have.

If this was 20 years ago, then yes, a coach would probably need to go and look at what we have to believe it.

All I want is Tedford right now.

 

[CowboyNV]

I don't think coaches really need to come and see the facilities to know they are nice.
The coaching world is extremely connected to eachother, and know all about what other schools have.

If this was 20 years ago, then yes, a coach would probably need to go and look at what we have to believe it.

All I want is Tedford right now.

Trust me on this one Beaver, never, ever interview and accept a job without looking at the facilities - in athletics or any other business. Why do you think companies like Google work so hard on facilities and corporate culture? It is to attract the best and brightest. Again, in your own personal life, if someone comes to you, interviews you, then says, "What do you think Beaver? Sounds great doesn't it. Just sign the contract and we will see you in two weeks." If that happens you need to run as far and as fast as you can the other direction. Just a little friendly advice from an old fuck who has been there and done that.

 

[BeaverPoke]

I don't think coaches really need to come and see the facilities to know they are nice.
The coaching world is extremely connected to eachother, and know all about what other schools have.

If this was 20 years ago, then yes, a coach would probably need to go and look at what we have to believe it.

All I want is Tedford right now.

Trust me on this one Beaver, never, ever interview and accept a job without looking at the facilities - in athletics or any other business. Why do you think companies like Google work so hard on facilities and corporate culture? It is to attract the best and brightest. Again, in your own personal life, if someone comes to you, interviews you, then says, "What do you think Beaver? Sounds great doesn't it. Just sign the contract and we will see you in two weeks." If that happens you need to run as far and as fast as you can the other direction. Just a little friendly advice from an old fuck who has been there and done that.

I get your point, but this isn't "any other business".
In the college football world, it is pretty much common knowledge of what schools have what type of facilities.
It is also common knowledge that we don't pay our assistants crap.

It isn't hard to know what type of facilities one school has in todays world.
A couple phone calls to other coaches will settle any questions.
Hell, get on youtube and look.
It's not hard.

 

[ELKMT]

I think it points to candidates that are already familiar or who have ties with Laramie.

 

[HR_Poke]

I don't think coaches really need to come and see the facilities to know they are nice.
The coaching world is extremely connected to eachother, and know all about what other schools have.

If this was 20 years ago, then yes, a coach would probably need to go and look at what we have to believe it.

All I want is Tedford right now.

Trust me on this one Beaver, never, ever interview and accept a job without looking at the facilities - in athletics or any other business. Why do you think companies like Google work so hard on facilities and corporate culture? It is to attract the best and brightest. Again, in your own personal life, if someone comes to you, interviews you, then says, "What do you think Beaver? Sounds great doesn't it. Just sign the contract and we will see you in two weeks." If that happens you need to run as far and as fast as you can the other direction. Just a little friendly advice from an old fuck who has been there and done that.

facilities don't mean anything in the corporate world. I worked at a company that spent a fortune making the office look great and have all the amenities. They treated their employees like shyt and laid off people right and left. Best company I have ever worked for has Spartan facilities because they would rather give money to the employees instead of blowing it on frivolous things like a gourmet coffee service.

 

[BeaverPoke]

All I know, is if we do hire Tedford, this is going to be the longest offseason EVER.

The waiting for last season was too long, and if they do get a coach we believe in, with past success, waiting for Spring ball, summer ball, and fall camp will be too much.

 

[CowboyNV]

I don't think coaches really need to come and see the facilities to know they are nice.
The coaching world is extremely connected to eachother, and know all about what other schools have.

If this was 20 years ago, then yes, a coach would probably need to go and look at what we have to believe it.

All I want is Tedford right now.

Trust me on this one Beaver, never, ever interview and accept a job without looking at the facilities - in athletics or any other business. Why do you think companies like Google work so hard on facilities and corporate culture? It is to attract the best and brightest. Again, in your own personal life, if someone comes to you, interviews you, then says, "What do you think Beaver? Sounds great doesn't it. Just sign the contract and we will see you in two weeks." If that happens you need to run as far and as fast as you can the other direction. Just a little friendly advice from an old fuck who has been there and done that.

facilities don't mean anything in the corporate world. I worked at a company that spent a fortune making the office look great and have all the amenities. They treated their employees like shyt and laid off people right and left. Best company I have ever worked for has Spartan facilities because they would rather give money to the employees instead of blowing it on frivolous things like a gourmet coffee service.

Exactly my point....a site visit would supply not only a visual of the facilities, but also allow the prospective candidates the opportunity to look at how things are set up...everything from support staff, to the computer software and equipment used to break down game film. There's a lot more than just the bricks and mortar and our award winning endzone graphics. Some things can't be seen on video, they have to be experienced in person. Athletics IS business and the problem at UW is it isn't run like a business. I want a coach that does his due diligence and doesn't rely on Tom Burman's bullshit spin to make a decision on where he wants to be.

 

[SnowyRange]

Now, if I am Coach (insert any name here) and Wyoming comes calling, I would probably like to visit the campus and see the facilities, meet some of the coaching staff still on the payroll, maybe even talk to some kids to get a feel BEFORE I COMMIT TO WORKING FOR BURMAN.

Is this guy a total fucking moron or what. Nobody, and I mean nobody with a brain, will take this job without spending a few hours checking shit out. Anyway, read the article for yourself and then maybe let me know if I'm missing something here. It seems Tommy boy wants this done now.

You could not be more wrong.

No coach of the caliber we seek is coming out for a "look see." They risk too much. And every coach of that caliber, and more particularly their agents, know the situation here down to how many towels we have in the locker room. They will come out if they are offered -- or virtually assured -- the job, not before.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Now, if I am Coach (insert any name here) and Wyoming comes calling, I would probably like to visit the campus and see the facilities, meet some of the coaching staff still on the payroll, maybe even talk to some kids to get a feel BEFORE I COMMIT TO WORKING FOR BURMAN.

Is this guy a total fucking moron or what. Nobody, and I mean nobody with a brain, will take this job without spending a few hours checking shit out. Anyway, read the article for yourself and then maybe let me know if I'm missing something here. It seems Tommy boy wants this done now.

You could not be more wrong.

No coach of the caliber we seek is coming out for a "look see." They risk too much. And every coach of that caliber, and more particularly their agents, know the situation here down to how many towels we have in the locker room. They will come out if they are offered -- or virtually assured -- the job, not before.

That's what I'm saying.
They know what is going on.
They spend one afternoon talking to friends, agents, and on the internet and know what is going on at every MWC, MAC, and C-USA school there is.

 

[CowboyNV]

Now, if I am Coach (insert any name here) and Wyoming comes calling, I would probably like to visit the campus and see the facilities, meet some of the coaching staff still on the payroll, maybe even talk to some kids to get a feel BEFORE I COMMIT TO WORKING FOR BURMAN.

Is this guy a total fucking moron or what. Nobody, and I mean nobody with a brain, will take this job without spending a few hours checking shit out. Anyway, read the article for yourself and then maybe let me know if I'm missing something here. It seems Tommy boy wants this done now.

You could not be more wrong.

No coach of the caliber we seek is coming out for a "look see." They risk too much. And every coach of that caliber, and more particularly their agents, know the situation here down to how many towels we have in the locker room. They will come out if they are offered -- or virtually assured -- the job, not before.

Not trying to get in a pissing match here, but if you will read what I said, and I quote myself, "Nobody, and I mean nobody with a brain, will take this job without spending a few hours checking shit out." Then you said, "You could not be more wrong....They will come out if they are offered -- or virtually assured -- the job, not before." So, I'm wrong and you are right? We both just said the same thing. It is simply a matter of timing. At some point, whomever is offered the position will most likely make a visit BEFORE signing on the dotted line. And in most cases, the coaches we pursue have clauses in their contracts that they must notify their respective universities that they are talking to Wyoming. So visiting Wyoming won't be any big secret.

 

[Slow Hand]

Shoyer has already been to Laramie so he knows what is here. Remember Burman only hires his buddies! LOL

 

[CowboyNV]

Shoyer has already been to Laramie so he knows what is here. Remember Burman only hires his buddies! LOL

+10 :rofl:

 

[SnowyRange]

Not trying to get in a pissing match here, but if you will read what I said, and I quote myself, "Nobody, and I mean nobody with a brain, will take this job without spending a few hours checking shit out." Then you said, "You could not be more wrong....They will come out if they are offered -- or virtually assured -- the job, not before." So, I'm wrong and you are right? We both just said the same thing. It is simply a matter of timing. At some point, whomever is offered the position will most likely make a visit BEFORE signing on the dotted line. And in most cases, the coaches we pursue have clauses in their contracts that they must notify their respective universities that they are talking to Wyoming. So visiting Wyoming won't be any big secret.

Fair enough, my apologies.

I think I was reading mostly the part about Burman being "a total fucking moron." He's not. The process will be -- here as everywhere -- that Burman goes to the candidates, not the other way around.

And, you're right, when the job is virtually offered (which is tricky, that conversation) then the guy will visit, basically with everyone's expectation being, unless the guy sees or learns something weird, he'll take the job.

It's a weird dance: I'm blanking on the school, but sometime in the last few years a big-time school went through this, the chosen guy showing up to seal the deal, to great fanfare and press coverage...then the guy pulled out. You'd have thought it was a newly discovered last act of Hamlet, for all the drama it generated.

 

[CowboyNV]

Not trying to get in a pissing match here, but if you will read what I said, and I quote myself, "Nobody, and I mean nobody with a brain, will take this job without spending a few hours checking shit out." Then you said, "You could not be more wrong....They will come out if they are offered -- or virtually assured -- the job, not before." So, I'm wrong and you are right? We both just said the same thing. It is simply a matter of timing. At some point, whomever is offered the position will most likely make a visit BEFORE signing on the dotted line. And in most cases, the coaches we pursue have clauses in their contracts that they must notify their respective universities that they are talking to Wyoming. So visiting Wyoming won't be any big secret.

Fair enough, my apologies.

I think I was reading mostly the part about Burman being "a total fucking moron." He's not. The process will be -- here as everywhere -- that Burman goes to the candidates, not the other way around.

And, you're right, when the job is virtually offered (which is tricky, that conversation) then the guy will visit, basically with everyone's expectation being, unless the guy sees or learns something weird, he'll take the job.

It's a weird dance: I'm blanking on the school, but sometime in the last few years a big-time school went through this, the chosen guy showing up to seal the deal, to great fanfare and press coverage...then the guy pulled out. You'd have thought it was a newly discovered last act of Hamlet, for all the drama it generated.

My apologies as well. The hiring process is a strange dance indeed. In my personal life, I have a clause in my employment contract that I must notify the company if/when I ever speak to another company about prospective employment. Over the years, I have used this to my advantage when renegotiating my contract. Successful negotiations are always dependent upon performance and I have been blessed with working with some of the best people in the business. That's why I've been here over 20 years. I don't share your opinion of Burman. I think he's in over his head. He keeps his job for another year or two, but sooner or later, people are going to realize that he has not produced at a satisfactory level. I sincerely hope he picks the right guy for this job. I'm just not convinced he will.