AA Renovation

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....

We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly fucked up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.

Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.

Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.

EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....

We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly fucked up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.

Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.

Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.

EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...

So when you give the money for the top of the line corvette and get delivered a base model, you should be happy about that? I don't think so. Guarantee if the HPAC ran short of funding we would find a way to raise the additional funds. That is the point here. We got a scaled down version of what was proposed. When the costs came in higher, we abandoned the design and turned to fundraising for the HPAC.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....

We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly fucked up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.

Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.

Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.

EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...

So when you give the money for the top of the line corvette and get delivered a base model, you should be happy about that? I don't think so. Guarantee if the HPAC ran short of funding we would find a way to raise the additional funds. That is the point here. We got a scaled down version of what was proposed. When the costs came in higher, we abandoned the design and turned to fundraising for the HPAC.

If my wife gives me money to go buy a Corvette and says "I think this is how much you'll need for that brand new fully loaded Vette" but upon arriving realize I can only afford the base model Vette (still sick as hell) my first thought wouldn't be anger or that there was some oversight or that my wife lied to me or was being deceitful....

And the article flat out said, the HPAC put some financial stress on donors yet was supported by the donors and it would be a bad look to go back to said donors and to ask for MORE money for Phase II.

 

[WestWYOPoke]

The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....

We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly fucked up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.

Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.

Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.

EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...

So when you give the money for the top of the line corvette and get delivered a base model, you should be happy about that? I don't think so. Guarantee if the HPAC ran short of funding we would find a way to raise the additional funds. That is the point here. We got a scaled down version of what was proposed. When the costs came in higher, we abandoned the design and turned to fundraising for the HPAC.

Make sure to bookmark this response. Me thinks in 5 years, you are going to be saying the same thing about the HAPC, "we aren't getting everything we were promised". I do agree with ItSuckstoBeacsuram in that, these type of things happen in the construction industry all the time. It's not Burman's fault that costs of materials have changed in the last 5 years from when the estimate was given until now. I'm not a Burman fan by any means, but I'll save my blame of him for areas that he actually can control, unlike market prices. However, I'll disagree with ISTBAcsuR in that while this will still be a great facility, it still will be behind UNLV in the MWC, their facilities are very impressive. One could argue that New Mexico's are comparable as well...

 

[cali2wyo]

If my wife gives me money to go buy a Corvette and says "I think this is how much you'll need for that brand new fully loaded Vette" but upon arriving realize I can only afford the base model Vette (still sick as hell) my first thought wouldn't be anger or that there was some oversight or that my wife lied to me or was being deceitful....

And the article flat out said, the HPAC put some financial stress on donors yet was supported by the donors and it would be a bad look to go back to said donors and to ask for MORE money for Phase II.

Your example is looking at it from the perspective of the general fan, not a donor. The corvette example for a donor would be Burman telling you he can get you a top of the line model for a certain amount of money. You give him that amount of money but instead get back a lesser car. To compound on this, Burman makes another deal with your next door neighbor (HATC) for an even nicer car and delivers the exact car he was expecting.

 

[laxwyo]

I agree that I'll be surprised if the HAPC turns out to be everything they're saying it will.

Shouldn't costs be going down with wyomings downturn? I'd think there would be many more bidders. I don't get why phase 2 was a complete and separate bid

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[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

If my wife gives me money to go buy a Corvette and says "I think this is how much you'll need for that brand new fully loaded Vette" but upon arriving realize I can only afford the base model Vette (still sick as hell) my first thought wouldn't be anger or that there was some oversight or that my wife lied to me or was being deceitful....

And the article flat out said, the HPAC put some financial stress on donors yet was supported by the donors and it would be a bad look to go back to said donors and to ask for MORE money for Phase II.

Your example is looking at it from the perspective of the general fan, not a donor. The corvette example for a donor would be Burman telling you he can get you a top of the line model for a certain amount of money. You give him that amount of money but instead get back a lesser car. To compound on this, Burman makes another deal with your next door neighbor (HATC) for an even nicer car and delivers the exact car he was expecting.

I am sure he had a conversation with the Donors and explained the situation.... Pricing never stays the same year to year... I am sure the donors of this state are a little more level headed than those on this board. And I am sure that some were upset. But they still pledged their money to something THEY believe in. If the Donors and the university believe in Phase II and the HATC (not sure where my acronym came from) why does this board always to have to look at it from the angle that were getting screwed. A lot of this is at a pay scale way above us and I assume that, you know, since the donors are still pledging their money for the projects that the university has worked this through with them

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

I agree that I'll be surprised if the HAPC turns out to be everything they're saying it will.

Shouldn't costs be going down with wyomings downturn? I'd think there would be many more bidders


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Labor is only one aspect of being a bidder. Material costs are material costs and they increase 3 to 5% year to year.

 

[LanderPoke]

The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....

We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly fucked up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.

Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.

Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.

EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...

So when you give the money for the top of the line corvette and get delivered a base model, you should be happy about that? I don't think so. Guarantee if the HPAC ran short of funding we would find a way to raise the additional funds. That is the point here. We got a scaled down version of what was proposed. When the costs came in higher, we abandoned the design and turned to fundraising for the HPAC.

Make sure to bookmark this response. Me thinks in 5 years, you are going to be saying the same thing about the HAPC, "we aren't getting everything we were promised". I do agree with ItSuckstoBeacsuram in that, these type of things happen in the construction industry all the time. It's not Burman's fault that costs of materials have changed in the last 5 years from when the estimate was given until now. I'm not a Burman fan by any means, but I'll save my blame of him for areas that he actually can control, unlike market prices. However, I'll disagree with ISTBAcsuR in that while this will still be a great facility, it still will be behind UNLV in the MWC, their facilities are very impressive. One could argue that New Mexico's are comparable as well...

Are we talking football or basketball? Basketball, the AA will probably be the 4th best behind Thomas & Mack, the Pit and SDSU's.

But UW will have top three football facilities imo. CSU's might be better, who knows, Boise's I hear are nice and I'm not sure what Fresno has, but I doubt they have something HAPC quality.

 

[laxwyo]

I saw a video of Boise's facilities and the HAPC reminds me a lot of what they already have


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[DVDA]

The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....

We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly fucked up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.

Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.

Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.

EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...

Captain Obvious shows no mercy.

Based on your comments, I assume you don't understand what deceit is. Deceit is common in these type of projects, as I mentioned in my earlier post. I bolded it for you in your post so you can see where you agreed with me. Being common practice doesn't make it acceptable. It's something I'm dissatisfied with as a Wyoming fan, but I'm not asking for Tom's job. One person jumped on Tom and you assume every dissatisfied fan feels the same way. Hopefully you see how illogical that is and won't need anyone to dumb it down for you.

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

The project isn't even completed... how do we know it's not going kick ass? Sometimes I don't inderstand this board. People bitch and moan about facilities then turn around and bitch and moan when we upgrade facilities. I guess we should just keep phase 1 and ask them to stop phase 2 since it's going to be such a travesty. Jesus. We're going to have the newest and nicest basketball facility in the conference... why are we bitching about that.....

We're bitching because they sold us on a great second phase of the renovation that they clearly fucked up with poor planning and/or with the typical deceit of projects of this nature. The renovation will obviously be a major upgrade and a nice addition to campus, but it'll be a downgrade from the original plan.

Edit: I feel bad for the donors on this project. They were sold on a fully loaded, brand new Corvette and are getting the base model instead. It's hard to bitch about having a brand new corvette, but you can certainly be pissed that you didn't get the car you thought you were buying.

Based on your comments, I assume you've never worked in the construction industry. Every project starts out grand and awesome and over the top to attract attention (and in this case donors) and then gets trimmed down as the estimated cost becomes the actual costs. There isn't a project in existence that ended exactly as proposed. Cuts and tweaks and modifications are made all the time. It doesnt immediately indicate poor planning or deceit or Burman sitting on his throne of skulls plotting ways to piss off this board. It's the nature of the industry and is STILL going to be the premier facility in the conference. But lets be pissed.

EDIT: A basemodel corvette is better than most every other muscle car available today.... You're still getting a corvette...

Captain Obvious shows no mercy.

Based on your comments, I assume you don't understand what deceit is. Deceit is common in these type of projects, as I mentioned in my earlier post. I bolded it for you in your post so you can see where you agreed with me. Being common practice doesn't make it acceptable. It's something I'm dissatisfied with as a Wyoming fan, but I'm not asking for Tom's job. One person jumped on Tom and you assume every dissatisfied fan feels the same way. Hopefully you see how illogical that is and won't need anyone to dumb it down for you.

de·ceit
dəˈsēt/
noun
the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.

Implying there is intent. No one in their right mind intentionally misrepresents a project or over promises. Thats how you get sued. You make a proposal based off of what the customer wants versus what they want to pay. As projects evolve those often become even further skewed until you land somewhere in the middle at a place agreeable to both parties. Asking for donations based on an initial concept only to decide the price is too expensive for the amount raised isn't deceitful or show a lack of planning on either parties part. You get what you pay for. Wyoming wasn't willing to pay for the initial proposal and the contractor wasn't willing to do the extra work for less money. I see no deceit in any of it... I see the standard back in forth involved in any construction bidding process...

AND captain obvious, the difference between estimated costs and actual costs is not deceit...

 

[WestWYOPoke]

Come on people, have none of you heard of a change order before...

 

[ItSucksToBeACSURam]

Come on people, have none of you heard of a change order before...

Haha you have to be able to afford to pay the change order...

 

[johnywyo]

I would like to have been in that meeting with donors on the "over-selling" and "under-delivering" of the AA and the downgrade to what we're left with as the package remodel. Deceit is not the operative term in this discussion, but misrepresentation is. If memory serves me right, the intent was to take this in two phases with the 2nd phase hitting some design issues at the time that phase was to be initiated. So, it wasn't about delivery of the "vette" but the manufacturing of the car at the time it was being built. If I'm ordering a high performance car, and I get upgrades because of the latest technology then I pull out my wallet and pay the difference. If the Phase 2 needs further funding, we go back to the fan base and donors and ask them "which design do you prefer" the Yugo or the Vette?

 

[Cowboy Junky]

Come on people, have none of you heard of a change order before...

I've helped build several hospitals, schools, and commercial facilities and have never seen a change order turn a beautiful giant glass structure into an above average brick structure half the size.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

I would like to have been in that meeting with donors on the "over-selling" and "under-delivering" of the AA and the downgrade to what we're left with as the package remodel. Deceit is not the operative term in this discussion, but misrepresentation is. If memory serves me right, the intent was to take this in two phases with the 2nd phase hitting some design issues at the time that phase was to be initiated. So, it wasn't about delivery of the "vette" but the manufacturing of the car at the time it was being built. If I'm ordering a high performance car, and I get upgrades because of the latest technology then I pull out my wallet and pay the difference. If the Phase 2 needs further funding, we go back to the fan base and donors and ask them "which design do you prefer" the Yugo or the Vette?

No, you just stick them with the Yugo because in the meantime you ordered the wife a Lamborghini.

 

[joshvanklomp]

At my alma mater we had two different two-phase construction projects announced, one for the basketball facility (early 90s) and one for the football stadium (10 years ago). We haven't seen Phase 2 on either project. I would love to have a trimmed-down second phase rather than simply no second phase at all!

 

[cali2wyo]

Yeah, at least we're not San Jose State...

http://www.mercurynews.com/2015/07/...ing-for-san-jose-state-to-improve-facilities/

 

[Cowboy Junky]

Yeah, at least we're not San Jose State...

http://www.mercurynews.com/2015/07/...ing-for-san-jose-state-to-improve-facilities/

Can we use that as a loophole to kick their asses out and replace them Tulsa or Wichita?