A huge part of any success going forward (for any team other than the Ohio States, Alabama, etc.) will be culture and system. Bohl does seem to run what seems to be a very solid "culture" - discipline, no shortcuts, no tolerance for bad behaviors, etc. Probably ok in that regard. From what I can tell (from being on the WAY outside) anyway. As for system - can the Wyo football "system" work as a "plug-and-play"? That would be the question for me. Would potential transfers from P5 schools feel comfortable coming into the "system"? Unfortunately, while Laramie has it's charms (I grew up there), I think we all have to be honest here and say most recruits won't be coming here for that.
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- Thread starter BeachPoke
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ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Bohl is good except he is too damn stubborn to admit he needs a lot of help on offense. He also doesn't win enough to be an ass, lock out fans, and squash excitement around the program.
McPeachy
Well-known member
wwplayer said:
I hate the mentality that Laramie is not an option for recruits...some parents would DIE to get their kids out of harms way / big city life / etc. I know many parents of athletes that absolutely LOVE what Laramie does (just as a culture and environment), for the college student athlete. Compared to many large market programs, Laramie offers a great way of life, growing up, maturing, and is a "best kept secret". Denver is 2 hours away, and has everything "big city" if that is what you want, while still living in a small community that is mostly safe, and very "family" focused.
It is a loser mentality to only point to Laramie for the negatives and not even consider, or recruit, for the positives. That is just an excuse...an excuse used when failing. I could go on, and on, and on, Wyoming simply has had shit football coaches in place since Roach / Tiller.
McPeachy said:
Not saying that there aren't positives. Hell, I was born and raised in Laramie, educated at UW. Could make a long list of positives. Been trying for years and years to get my HS students to apply to college at UW. But to not be honest about the negatives (especially for kids not from this part of the country) is not fair to them. For example: climate. I always loved the cool summers and golden falls (between blizzards), but you have to admit the winter sucks and there is no spring to speak of. Wasn't the old joke about Laramie that there is two seasons - winter and the Fourth of July.... Some love it, some hate it, some tolerate it, some leave.... As for parents wanting to send their kids to a "safe" place, yes, that's a nice idea. But after almost almost 40 years in the classroom, I have seen a lot of change. Far, far, far too often these days, the kids are calling the shots (and the parents just go along). I just don't think that parents have near as much say in things like this as they used to. Just my (very un-scientific) opinion based on literally thousands of students/parents over the years. All that said, Laramie/UW does have it's charms/advantages. I mean, could you imagine living in College Station, TX or Stillwater OK or Logan, UT or similar? Do places like that really have that much over Laramie as locations? I don't know. I mean, what's Tuskaloosa, AL without UA?
Basketball seems to be doing all right recruiting to Laramie and retaining the guys they want to keep. They just had three guys transfer from L.A. This is probably Linder's 2nd recruiting class ranked in the top 2 in the conference. We're coming up on his third season.
I've said it all along and I'll say it again: our football staff isn't recruiting well enough or we would have won the league by now. Has this staff ever had a recruiting class ranked in the top half of the MWC?
We need more studs.
I've said it all along and I'll say it again: our football staff isn't recruiting well enough or we would have won the league by now. Has this staff ever had a recruiting class ranked in the top half of the MWC?
We need more studs.
WestWYOPoke
Well-known member
It's not just a mentality, it's reality. I say this as someone that went to UW, enjoyed Laramie and has spent a lot of time there since graduating...Laramie is not an attractive option for a LOT of college age recruits. Hell, the majority of players already on the Wyo football roster don't even like being in Laramie. This isn't an excuse, it's a fact.McPeachy said:
Having said that, a good coaching staff will run with the positives like you mentioned (few distractions, less ways to get in trouble, etc.) and ignore the negatives as much as they can. But still, the reality remains that a lot of high school athletes are not going to choose Laramie as their #1 option. This is why facilities and relationships are so important. "Ignore the fact that you are 2 hours from a major airport, but look at this awesome locker room and weight room you get to use every day."
LanderPoke
Well-known member
This is your opinion, not factWestWYOPoke said:
WestWYOPoke
Well-known member
LanderPoke said:
No, I know it's a fact. I know from 1st hand experience. I know you can't just take my word for it, but it is, sorry.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Losing, not Laramie, is the problem. WYO has had mostly dogshit performance in both major sports for 20 years and 40 years in football. Recruits are 17 or 18. Do the math. Recruits' parents know nothing of WYO. Bball is turning the corner. Imperative to build on that culture.
Spokane WA is not a destination for blue chip athletes. Gonzaga is.
The AD and coaches have been sledding by on the Laramie excuse for decades. Build a winner and Laramie is irrelevant.
Spokane WA is not a destination for blue chip athletes. Gonzaga is.
The AD and coaches have been sledding by on the Laramie excuse for decades. Build a winner and Laramie is irrelevant.
Any acknowledgement that Laramie is not high on the list of destinations for college athletes is always met with the dreaded "loser mentality" epithet.
You have to be able to hold two things in your mind at one time. I love Laramie and Wyoming but I get that it's not a universal thing to be enamored with the wide open spaces and solitude. When it comes to athletic recruitment, Wyoming appeals to a certain personality type that is probably (definititely?) in the minority. People enjoy amenities...athletic recruits are people. You can talk all you want about Denver being Just two hours away....but that is only a selling point to people who live further than two hours from that type of urban center.
If you rank order all of the D1 schools by general non-athletic appeal to recruits (meaning....don't consider program success), you will end up with Pepperdine, Miami, Hawaii, and other Coastal urban colleges at the top. They will be followed by your inland urban colleges in upper scale areas like CU, Penn St, Indiana...honestly I think the Big10 has this tier covered. Then there are the rest of us. Wyoming is not in the top half of that list. Let's stop pretending that it is. That doesn't make it impossible to get good recruits here...but let's not act like its "loser mentality" to notice that in the absence of any real athletic success or tradition, recruits are not clamoring to get to Laramie.
You have to be able to hold two things in your mind at one time. I love Laramie and Wyoming but I get that it's not a universal thing to be enamored with the wide open spaces and solitude. When it comes to athletic recruitment, Wyoming appeals to a certain personality type that is probably (definititely?) in the minority. People enjoy amenities...athletic recruits are people. You can talk all you want about Denver being Just two hours away....but that is only a selling point to people who live further than two hours from that type of urban center.
If you rank order all of the D1 schools by general non-athletic appeal to recruits (meaning....don't consider program success), you will end up with Pepperdine, Miami, Hawaii, and other Coastal urban colleges at the top. They will be followed by your inland urban colleges in upper scale areas like CU, Penn St, Indiana...honestly I think the Big10 has this tier covered. Then there are the rest of us. Wyoming is not in the top half of that list. Let's stop pretending that it is. That doesn't make it impossible to get good recruits here...but let's not act like its "loser mentality" to notice that in the absence of any real athletic success or tradition, recruits are not clamoring to get to Laramie.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
307bball said:
Then build that. The loser mentality is that athletic success and tradition can't be built. The winner attitude is build that despite Laramie.
Glad Linder didn't buy that nonsense. Also a testament to what reality is...
LanderPoke
Well-known member
Still a sweeping, broad generalizationWestWYOPoke said:
ragtimejoe1 said:
Mark the twine! Ragtime and I agree on something!
I can't see into the hearts of any of the Wyoming coaches, but do any of them "buy into that nonsense"?
The model, to me, is Washington state. Pullman is tiny and far from any urban centers.... And has rough winters. But they have had some pretty decent success over the years. It can be done. But acting like it's "opinion" that Laramie is not easy to recruit to is a start in the wrong direction.
OrediggerPoke
Well-known member
I believe the location of ‘laramie’ will be more irrelevant going forward. The employees (aka players) of the various football teams will largely be chasing the money. I personally hope we don’t engage in this nonsensical arms race.
WestWYOPoke
Well-known member
ragtimejoe1 said:
I definitely agree with you...success, prestige, winning can all be factors that help to overcome other factors like location.
Using your Gonzaga example, I would bet that a high percentage of the players on the Gonzaga basketball team do not like living in Spokane. BUT, they want to win and they want to go to a program that will get them to the NBA. So in that case, success has outdone location.
Wyoming can do that too, they seem to be doing it with basketball. But to ignore the fact that Laramie is not that desirable to the average 18-year old male is shortsighted. As I said previously, this is why things like facilities, relationships, and (most importantly) winning can help to overcome that.
BackHarlowRoad
Well-known member
Fact #1: Of people without any ties to Wyoming, Laramie is not as appealing as most other college towns.
- You can do your own research by simply talking to people without ties to Wyoming. The younger and more urban they are, the less appealing they'll find it although there are also always exceptions.
Fact #2: Winning can negate the location to some degree.
- There are a few examples mentioned above.
Fact #3: Overcoming people's first impressions is possible and finding positives to life at UW is absolutely possible.
Why ya'll are arguing these three points is baffling to me, YOU'RE ALL RIGHT. The world isn't black and white.
- You can do your own research by simply talking to people without ties to Wyoming. The younger and more urban they are, the less appealing they'll find it although there are also always exceptions.
Fact #2: Winning can negate the location to some degree.
- There are a few examples mentioned above.
Fact #3: Overcoming people's first impressions is possible and finding positives to life at UW is absolutely possible.
Why ya'll are arguing these three points is baffling to me, YOU'RE ALL RIGHT. The world isn't black and white.
The last 40+years of Wyoming football has not been great in terms of success. Perhaps this new era of College football could be the opportunity for UW to change that. Sure it's a long shot but... Only so many players can start for a P5 team. Don't waste time on HS recruits, period. It's not to our benefit to feed P5 schools. Work it the other way around, feed off the P5 portal. Establish recruiting strategies for the portal and some sort of NIL to take advantage of the changing dynamic of CFB. What UW has been doing for the past 40 years isn't working, worth swinging for the fences and trying something different.
McPeachy
Well-known member
Cornpoke said:
Agree 100%, and basically said the same above. Plug and play - give it a shot, and like you mentioned - it is NOT TO OUR BENEFIT TO FEED P5 SCHOOLS. Why recruit and pay for somebody to RS one year, play the next, and transfer out with 3 years eligibility left? All that does is cost UW a ton of money, likely producing poor results. It is a simple turnover calculation, that anyone that has ever been involved in HR would clearly understand and agree with! Somebody has to have done the math at UW on this...right?
