Reality

[OrediggerPoke]

It seems like we have quite the relationship with the city of Buffalo NY. The mafia is very generous with their money when they see a worthwhile cause. Wishful thinking here, but could our university try to market NIL opportunities to the mafia? They could maybe sell it as "UW is your university too." type of thing. Imagine if JA was on board with something like this?

That would be very embarrassing to their own local FBS team…the Buffalo Bulls (who have been much better than Wyoming over the past 2 years). Given that, can’t imagine it would catch on (but you never know I guess).

 

[rich22]

I'm more for do better or drop completely. The athletic dept recieves $23-24 mill annually from taxpayers and students. When facility costs are included, I'm sure that number is MUCH higher. However, just take the direct contributions and reroute to in-state scholarships. You'd save the average grad $12k or so. Put it in an endowment for 5 years and would start paying out 4-5 mill/year. Keep the contribution going and imagine where it would be in 20 years? The endowment would be paying out somewhere around 50 mill annually in 20 years with the principle intact. That's very rough and simplistic. Reality is that it would probably grow more.

Justify to average WYO taxpayer why funding one of the worst athletic programs in the conference is of more benefit than investing more in WYO undergrads? It'd be a tough conversation.

I'm for athletics but they need to succeed and bring positive press, exposure, and help connect the state to the University. Year after year failure in almost every category does the opposite.

I understand your argument, but I also think that would be detrimental to the entire university. There is a possibility if you take the athletics dept away, the university starts to disappear. There was 13,000 students when I was there in the early 2000's. Now there is 10,000. I would imagine that about 5,000 students show up to every football game. It is an event that a lot of students love. They come to Wyoming for the full college experience. If you took that large part away, I wonder what the number of enrolled students would be. I think there is a university in every corner of the state, that is out of state, that offers the full college experience. Montana, Montana state, Colorado, Colorado state, Utah, BYU and Utah state. There is something wrong with dropping the entire athletic department or more institutions would do it.

I don't get how every one of our peers are growing and expanding and we are talking about dropping down or cutting the programs. What is the secret to recruiting not only good teams/players but also general students? We need better leadership across the entire university.

 

[bladerunnr]

I understand your argument, but I also think that would be detrimental to the entire university. There is a possibility if you take the athletics dept away, the university starts to disappear. There was 13,000 students when I was there in the early 2000's. Now there is 10,000. I would imagine that about 5,000 students show up to every football game. It is an event that a lot of students love. They come to Wyoming for the full college experience. If you took that large part away, I wonder what the number of enrolled students would be. I think there is a university in every corner of the state, that is out of state, that offers the full college experience. Montana, Montana state, Colorado, Colorado state, Utah, BYU and Utah state. There is something wrong with dropping the entire athletic department or more institutions would do it.

I don't get how every one of our peers are growing and expanding and we are talking about dropping down or cutting the programs. What is the secret to recruiting not only good teams/players but also general students? We need better leadership across the entire university.

The student part is simple. The population of Wyoming is not growing significantly. That's a real problem for a state university. I live in Colorado. The state has more than 6 1/2 million people.. There are no new universities so the existing ones grow. CSU has more than 35k students now. Utah, Idaho, and Nevada have had huge increases in number of residents. That practically insures more students.
To some degree, it will always be harder for Wyoming. Some athletes will never consider living in a small town like Laramie. The reputation of the school is not so great that it will attract students from all over the country. When I was in school, Wyoming used to get the small town kid who didn't get offered by a big program like Nebraska. Now, we lose that kid to Boise state or some other regional school.

 

[TheRealUW]

I understand your argument, but I also think that would be detrimental to the entire university. There is a possibility if you take the athletics dept away, the university starts to disappear. There was 13,000 students when I was there in the early 2000's. Now there is 10,000. I would imagine that about 5,000 students show up to every football game. It is an event that a lot of students love. They come to Wyoming for the full college experience. If you took that large part away, I wonder what the number of enrolled students would be. I think there is a university in every corner of the state, that is out of state, that offers the full college experience. Montana, Montana state, Colorado, Colorado state, Utah, BYU and Utah state. There is something wrong with dropping the entire athletic department or more institutions would do it.

I don't get how every one of our peers are growing and expanding and we are talking about dropping down or cutting the programs. What is the secret to recruiting not only good teams/players but also general students? We need better leadership across the entire university.

As bladerunnr has already said, the low student enrollment numbers are directly related to the lack of population growth in the state of Wyoming. The number of kids graduating from Wyoming high schools is actually slightly lower now than it was in 1990...kind of mind blowing.

That lack of population growth coupled with people having less kids in general and less of those kids (especially males) pursuing a college education, and you have a recipe for disaster at UW. I'm honestly not sure how they turn the enrollment numbers around.

 

[Poke in New England]

The student part is simple. The population of Wyoming is not growing significantly. That's a real problem for a state university. I live in Colorado. The state has more than 6 1/2 million people.. There are no new universities so the existing ones grow. CSU has more than 35k students now. Utah, Idaho, and Nevada have had huge increases in number of residents. That practically insures more students.
To some degree, it will always be harder for Wyoming. Some athletes will never consider living in a small town like Laramie. The reputation of the school is not so great that it will attract students from all over the country. When I was in school, Wyoming used to get the small town kid who didn't get offered by a big program like Nebraska. Now, we lose that kid to Boise state or some other regional school.

I always struggle to understand why this is. As you point out, nearly every state surrounding Wyoming has grown like crazy this century.

If the complaint is weather and politics well, Idaho and Utah are not so different. Lack of a big metro? 60 years ago, Casper, Cheyenne and Boise had basically the same population (35k-40k). Maybe someone smarter than me can explain why Boise now has 235k and Casper and Cheyenne have 60k.

 

[TheRealUW]

I always struggle to understand why this is. As you point out, nearly every state surrounding Wyoming has grown like crazy this century.

If the complaint is weather and politics well, Idaho and Utah are not so different. Lack of a big metro? 60 years ago, Casper, Cheyenne and Boise had basically the same population (35k-40k). Maybe someone smarter than me can explain why Boise now has 235k and Casper and Cheyenne have 60k.

The answer is what always drives population growth…the job market.

Boise worked to strengthen and diversify its job market over the past couple decades. They were very successful, particularly within the tech sector.

Another important factor not to be overlooked is its location. It is much closer, and easier to get to, from West Coast cities where a lot of the people moving into Boise are coming from. In general, a lot of the people coming to Boise want the lower cost of living and the family friendly environment, but want easy access back to California for the more mild weather, more advanced healthcare, and shopping it offers.

 

[PAPoke]

I always struggle to understand why this is. As you point out, nearly every state surrounding Wyoming has grown like crazy this century.

If the complaint is weather and politics well, Idaho and Utah are not so different. Lack of a big metro? 60 years ago, Casper, Cheyenne and Boise had basically the same population (35k-40k). Maybe someone smarter than me can explain why Boise now has 235k and Casper and Cheyenne have 60k.

If you look around the region, Wyoming is kind of the odd one out.

Colorado, Utah, Idaho, and Nevada all built real engines for growth while Wyoming stayed tied mostly to coal, oil, and gas. Our neighbors diversified into tech, aerospace, tourism, logistics, outdoor rec, and all sorts of other high-skilled industries.

They also developed big population magnets. Denver. Salt Lake. Boise. Vegas. Places that attract companies, talent, students, and long-term migration. Wyoming has none of that.

College works the same way. CSU, Utah, Boise State, UNR are rising because the states around them are rising. Wyoming has scenery and space and quality of life, but so do Montana and Idaho, and those states offer more economic opportunity. Young people are leaving the state to find work, entertainment, and a social life, which means fewer future students, fewer major employers, and the cycle continues. It is not mysterious. The surrounding states made themselves places people move to, while Wyoming, especially the eastern part of the state, has mostly been a place people move away from.

 

[LanderPoke]

I always struggle to understand why this is. As you point out, nearly every state surrounding Wyoming has grown like crazy this century.

If the complaint is weather and politics well, Idaho and Utah are not so different. Lack of a big metro? 60 years ago, Casper, Cheyenne and Boise had basically the same population (35k-40k). Maybe someone smarter than me can explain why Boise now has 235k and Casper and Cheyenne have 60k.

I think it’s weather. Wyoming’s weather is significantly shittier.

 

[rich22]

As bladerunnr has already said, the low student enrollment numbers are directly related to the lack of population growth in the state of Wyoming. The number of kids graduating from Wyoming high schools is actually slightly lower now than it was in 1990...kind of mind blowing.

That lack of population growth coupled with people having less kids in general and less of those kids (especially males) pursuing a college education, and you have a recipe for disaster at UW. I'm honestly not sure how they turn the enrollment numbers around.

Do you really think we have dropped 3,000 enrolled students since 2002 because our state is shrinking in population? I just looked this up online. Don't know how credible it is but this is what it said on the Neilsberg Research website.

"Over the last 20 plus years, between 2000 and 2024, population of Wyoming increased by 93,638. In this period, the peak population was 587,618 in the year 2024. "

I can't find any data for high school graduates in 2000 in Wyoming compared to now but I would find it hard to believe that our high school graduating numbers went down by 1/4 like the UW enrollment did.

I really don't think UW is even trying to reach the instate kids that are graduating outside of the Laramie/Cheyenne areas let alone the out of state kids in Utah, Idaho, Nebraska and Colorado. I will say, from my son being a senior right now, that the community colleges are working harder at getting kids to enroll then UW is. Utah state is working on this side of the state to get Wyoming kids to come. They actively recruit for students on the west side of Wyoming.

I am not familiar with the situation anymore, but does UW offer a discount to the Colorado kids? It would seem to make sense to me. I believe Utah state does that for kids that live in a certain radius from Logan regardless of the state they live in. If the Wyoming population is shrinking and Colorado is growing that might make sense. Reach out to the nearest population bases. Maybe look at CSU and give the Colorado kids a cost that is just below the instate at CSU at like $12,000. That is double the instate cost of Wyoming kids but less than CSU's instate cost. Just a thought. Either way I think the leadership needs to look at ways to expand enrollment.

I also don't buy the small town excuse. Have you all been to some of the college towns in the south or other parts of the US? They are small towns. For example: Clemson SC has 18,000 people. In the counties around Clemson there are about 300,000 people. That doesn't sound that much different than what Wyoming has. The Cheyenne "metro" area has 100,000 people, Laramie has 35,000 and Casper has about 80,000. That equals 215,000. Again comparing to Utah state but Logan has about 150,000 people in the cache valley. They are just aggressive at recruiting kids to come to Logan outside of that area. Their enrollment is 28,000 while ours is 10,000 and shrinking. Why are they kicking our butts in everything?? It drives me crazy and didn't use to be this way.

 

[Brew_Poke]

I understand your argument, but I also think that would be detrimental to the entire university. There is a possibility if you take the athletics dept away, the university starts to disappear. There was 13,000 students when I was there in the early 2000's. Now there is 10,000. I would imagine that about 5,000 students show up to every football game. It is an event that a lot of students love. They come to Wyoming for the full college experience. If you took that large part away, I wonder what the number of enrolled students would be. I think there is a university in every corner of the state, that is out of state, that offers the full college experience. Montana, Montana state, Colorado, Colorado state, Utah, BYU and Utah state. There is something wrong with dropping the entire athletic department or more institutions would do it.

I don't get how every one of our peers are growing and expanding and we are talking about dropping down or cutting the programs. What is the secret to recruiting not only good teams/players but also general students? We need better leadership across the entire university.

The University is a reflection of the State and its culture.

 

[TheRealUW]

Do you really think we have dropped 3,000 enrolled students since 2002 because our state is shrinking in population? I just looked this up online. Don't know how credible it is but this is what it said on the Neilsberg Research website.

"Over the last 20 plus years, between 2000 and 2024, population of Wyoming increased by 93,638. In this period, the peak population was 587,618 in the year 2024. "

I can't find any data for high school graduates in 2000 in Wyoming compared to now but I would find it hard to believe that our high school graduating numbers went down by 1/4 like the UW enrollment did.

I really don't think UW is even trying to reach the instate kids that are graduating outside of the Laramie/Cheyenne areas let alone the out of state kids in Utah, Idaho, Nebraska and Colorado. I will say, from my son being a senior right now, that the community colleges are working harder at getting kids to enroll then UW is. Utah state is working on this side of the state to get Wyoming kids to come. They actively recruit for students on the west side of Wyoming.

I am not familiar with the situation anymore, but does UW offer a discount to the Colorado kids? It would seem to make sense to me. I believe Utah state does that for kids that live in a certain radius from Logan regardless of the state they live in. If the Wyoming population is shrinking and Colorado is growing that might make sense. Reach out to the nearest population bases. Maybe look at CSU and give the Colorado kids a cost that is just below the instate at CSU at like $12,000. That is double the instate cost of Wyoming kids but less than CSU's instate cost. Just a thought. Either way I think the leadership needs to look at ways to expand enrollment.

I also don't buy the small town excuse. Have you all been to some of the college towns in the south or other parts of the US? They are small towns. For example: Clemson SC has 18,000 people. In the counties around Clemson there are about 300,000 people. That doesn't sound that much different than what Wyoming has. The Cheyenne "metro" area has 100,000 people, Laramie has 35,000 and Casper has about 80,000. That equals 215,000. Again comparing to Utah state but Logan has about 150,000 people in the cache valley. They are just aggressive at recruiting kids to come to Logan outside of that area. Their enrollment is 28,000 while ours is 10,000 and shrinking. Why are they kicking our butts in everything?? It drives me crazy and didn't use to be this way.

The total population of Wyoming has indeed increased over the past 25 years, but at a much slower rate than the surrounding states you mention. Nevada's population has increased 58% since 2000, Utah's has increased 52%, Idaho's has increased 46%, Colorado's has increased 31%, and Montana's has increased 25%. Wyoming's population increased about 16% over that same time period.

When you look at total number of public high school graduates by state, the numbers are even more stark. Nevada had 31k graduates in 2023, Utah had 45k, Idaho had 21k, Colorado had 60k, and Montana had about 10k. Wyoming had 6,070 in that same year.

Want to guess how many high school graduates Wyoming had in 1981? 6,161. That's right, Wyoming had less high school graduates in 2023 then they did in 1981.

Now, let's look at what percentage of high school graduates attend college. While that percentage has decreased nationally over the past couple years, the national average still hovers around 60%. If you look at Wyoming specifically, only 37% of 2022 graduates enrolled in a university following high school. That number in Wyoming was at 46% in 2016.

I could go on and on. Basically every metric you look at is going to point towards a decreasing enrollment at UW with no end in sight, at least in the near future. Ultimately, these trends all relate back to a poor diversification of the job market in Wyoming. As coal, oil, and methane gas fell out of favor, there were very few other industries with jobs to attract people to move to the state. The surrounding Rocky Mountain states have faired much better because they have a stronger, more resilient job market buoyed through purpose built diversification.