Graham Ike to miss 6-8 weeks with a lower leg injury.

Everything Cowboy and Cowgirl Basketball, plus other Cowboy athletics
User avatar
LanderPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 9966
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Been liked: 3 times

OrediggerPoke wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:04 pm
McPeachy wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 11:49 am

He could play for another 3 years at UW I believe. But I didn't expect him to be in the Brown & Gold past this season, after he destroyed the conference. That didn't happen, as we all know, and now comes this conundrum. I watch him specifically after games in the hand-shake line with the other teams...lots of respect, lots of hugging. I came to the assumption that wasn't a good sign.
Good observation. But it just seems to me that big time programs are going to be hesitant to throw a lot of NIL money his way coming off the injury and no way would he declare coming off the injury. It will be interesting to follow.
I am not sure what to think of the chances Ike plays for the B&G next year IF he plays this year. I lean towards he’ll be on our team, but you never know. I think Linder and Ike have a wonderful relationship so that certainly helps.
LawPoke
Cowpoke
Posts: 852
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:23 pm

I hope that Linder has learned his lesson that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. I understand that it is impossible to know if or when a player will be injured, but to hinge your entire season on one player is crazy. Linder's and Ike's teammates' comments, paired with the actual results on the hardwood, show that the season depended wholly on Ike...everything was set to run through him and we are just now coming around to a scheme that starts to salve over Ike's not being on the court.
Wyovanian
WyoNation Addict
Posts: 2334
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:28 pm
Location: Wherever I'm At
Been liked: 1 time

LawPoke wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:16 pm I hope that Linder has learned his lesson that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. I understand that it is impossible to know if or when a player will be injured, but to hinge your entire season on one player is crazy. Linder's and Ike's teammates' comments, paired with the actual results on the hardwood, show that the season depended wholly on Ike...everything was set to run through him and we are just now coming around to a scheme that starts to salve over Ike's not being on the court.
Linder, as a head coach, is an executive manager, and should be held to such a standard. If he actually based an entire season's game plan on a single resource, questions have to be raised. Not saying we throw him to the wolves or abandon all hope with him, but questions must be asked.
"WE are the music makers and WE are the dreamers of the dreams." -Willy Winka (Gene Wilder) Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
User avatar
LanderPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 9966
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Been liked: 3 times

Wyovanian wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:51 am
LawPoke wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:16 pm I hope that Linder has learned his lesson that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. I understand that it is impossible to know if or when a player will be injured, but to hinge your entire season on one player is crazy. Linder's and Ike's teammates' comments, paired with the actual results on the hardwood, show that the season depended wholly on Ike...everything was set to run through him and we are just now coming around to a scheme that starts to salve over Ike's not being on the court.
Linder, as a head coach, is an executive manager, and should be held to such a standard. If he actually based an entire season's game plan on a single resource, questions have to be raised. Not saying we throw him to the wolves or abandon all hope with him, but questions must be asked.
He thought his other players were way better than they were. Hopefully he's learned some valuable lessons and nothing remotely like this ever happens again. Can't construct a team of almost exclusively skinny perimeter shooters and expect things to go well.
OrediggerPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 5146
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:57 am
Been liked: 2 times

Wyovanian wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:51 am
LawPoke wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:16 pm I hope that Linder has learned his lesson that you don't put all your eggs in one basket. I understand that it is impossible to know if or when a player will be injured, but to hinge your entire season on one player is crazy. Linder's and Ike's teammates' comments, paired with the actual results on the hardwood, show that the season depended wholly on Ike...everything was set to run through him and we are just now coming around to a scheme that starts to salve over Ike's not being on the court.
Linder, as a head coach, is an executive manager, and should be held to such a standard. If he actually based an entire season's game plan on a single resource, questions have to be raised. Not saying we throw him to the wolves or abandon all hope with him, but questions must be asked.
You raise good points. But I think the facts would bear out that he likely made executive decisions which he reasonably believed would lessen/mitigate the risk of an injury or loss of any single player (such as Ike). He went out and signed 3 players (including tall/athletic Max) probably believing those guys would be better than they have shown. I'd say he made executive decisions that he believed would improve the team but those decisions have not turned out to be true and may have backfired in terms of team chemistry.
307bball
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1706
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:08 pm
Been liked: 1 time

OrediggerPoke wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:28 am
Wyovanian wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:51 am
Linder, as a head coach, is an executive manager, and should be held to such a standard. If he actually based an entire season's game plan on a single resource, questions have to be raised. Not saying we throw him to the wolves or abandon all hope with him, but questions must be asked.
You raise good points. But I think the facts would bear out that he likely made executive decisions which he reasonably believed would lessen/mitigate the risk of an injury or loss of any single player (such as Ike). He went out and signed 3 players (including tall/athletic Max) probably believing those guys would be better than they have shown. I'd say he made executive decisions that he believed would improve the team but those decisions have not turned out to be true and may have backfired in terms of team chemistry.
Yeah...pretty much nobody expected the non-Ike players to have turned out to be this bad. Everybody expected much better. I don't think that the style of play with and without Ike is so different that losing him means you would have to start from zero. It was a whiff on every guy that transferred really....pretty unexpected. If just one of them were at the level of Jeffries, we would be so much better off.
LawPoke
Cowpoke
Posts: 852
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:23 pm

My concern is with some of the comments from players and Linder himself. The gist I got was the entire offense was centered around Ike (no pun intended). They practiced the entire offseason and pre-season with Ike as the driver of the offense. He goes down...everything else falls apart.

Beyond all of that, though, I don't understand how our defense is so terrible. And it isn't on the interior where it is the worst...it is on the perimeter. I went to the SDSU game and our arc defense was abysmal. Same with AFA.
307bball
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1706
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:08 pm
Been liked: 1 time

LawPoke wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:56 pm My concern is with some of the comments from players and Linder himself. The gist I got was the entire offense was centered around Ike (no pun intended). They practiced the entire offseason and pre-season with Ike as the driver of the offense. He goes down...everything else falls apart.

Beyond all of that, though, I don't understand how our defense is so terrible. And it isn't on the interior where it is the worst...it is on the perimeter. I went to the SDSU game and our arc defense was abysmal. Same with AFA.
My theory is that Linder has the same conclusion that we all have....basically that the transfers have not bet as good as advertised. What he says in public is that "well...we were so focused on featuring Ike that it is taking time to adjust"...I think he's saying that to avoid alienating the players.
bladerunnr
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1760
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:45 pm

Ike was pre season player of the year. So I see nothing wrong with centering your entire offense around him. This isn't football. Having a player miss multiple seasons is unusual. Great post players don't grow on trees. Ike was irreplaceable.

The real disaster, imo, is the lack of development of the rest of the team. We don't have a single reliable outside shooter. Other than Reynolds, not one player on this team can create his own shot.

I remember watching Larry Nance as a freshman. He went from good to great. So did Josh Adams.
I thought between Dusell, Oden, or Wenzel, we might get another real impact player. They are decent players, but none of them would start on any of the better teams in this league.
Linder lost a pretty damn good guard to transfer- the MWC freshman of the year. The impact of losing a player like that is hard to quantify. Turning Maldo into a point guard seemed like a good idea but it really hasn't worked since about mid season last year. Reynolds has improved. But his outside shooting is suspect and he really isn't an assist machine.

All coaches swing and miss on recruiting. Hopefully, Linder sees that next year's roster needs a complete overhaul. We might be in rebuild mode for another year. This year is a pretty ugly wart on an otherwise very successful coaching record. I'm afraid we will need to have some patience that Linder can correct this mess.
OrediggerPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 5146
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:57 am
Been liked: 2 times

bladerunnr wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 9:31 pm Ike was pre season player of the year. So I see nothing wrong with centering your entire offense around him. This isn't football. Having a player miss multiple seasons is unusual. Great post players don't grow on trees. Ike was irreplaceable.

The real disaster, imo, is the lack of development of the rest of the team. We don't have a single reliable outside shooter. Other than Reynolds, not one player on this team can create his own shot.

I remember watching Larry Nance as a freshman. He went from good to great. So did Josh Adams.
I thought between Dusell, Oden, or Wenzel, we might get another real impact player. They are decent players, but none of them would start on any of the better teams in this league.
Linder lost a pretty damn good guard to transfer- the MWC freshman of the year. The impact of losing a player like that is hard to quantify. Turning Maldo into a point guard seemed like a good idea but it really hasn't worked since about mid season last year. Reynolds has improved. But his outside shooting is suspect and he really isn't an assist machine.

All coaches swing and miss on recruiting. Hopefully, Linder sees that next year's roster needs a complete overhaul. We might be in rebuild mode for another year. This year is a pretty ugly wart on an otherwise very successful coaching record. I'm afraid we will need to have some patience that Linder can correct this mess.
Marcus Williams wasn’t this big loss this seems to imply. We were better without him. His leaving was probably mutual. He is now on his third team after apparently wearing out his welcome at Texas A&M and is a backup for a marginal San Francisco team.

Jeff Linder is now .500 in conference in 3 seasons and we are trending the wrong direction. It is worrisome.
stymeman
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 6930
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Cheyenne, again

I don't understand the not being able to adjust away from the Ike offense, into an absence that truly isn't improving over the course of the season. Adjustments should not be that difficult and the team should be able to learn from it and win games???? And a "said leader" in Maldo has truly been a major disappointment as well....not really sure what to think of this fiasco??? Something is wrong somewhere tho.... i wish there'd be more transparency in what Ike's official injury is/was, afterall what would it hurt to know the real prognosis of the situation at this point of the season??? Strange state of affairs in the about face of this team and program from 1 year to another?
LawPoke
Cowpoke
Posts: 852
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:23 pm

stymeman wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:12 am I don't understand the not being able to adjust away from the Ike offense, into an absence that truly isn't improving over the course of the season. Adjustments should not be that difficult and the team should be able to learn from it and win games???? And a "said leader" in Maldo has truly been a major disappointment as well....not really sure what to think of this fiasco??? Something is wrong somewhere tho.... i wish there'd be more transparency in what Ike's official injury is/was, afterall what would it hurt to know the real prognosis of the situation at this point of the season??? Strange state of affairs in the about face of this team and program from 1 year to another?
In hindsight, Maldo and Thompson should not have come back. College teams are constructed for 4 year rotations. Altering that pattern has costs - team chemistry, recruiting, building new rotations, etc. Linder is CLEARLY frustrated. His post-game comments were biting. This team is broken. They cannot play defense. They are not fundamentally sound. They are not basketball smart - in that they aren't situationally aware. They lack a leader on the court. We are seeing the other side of the transfer reality - sometimes what glitters is not gold.
307bball
A Real Cowboy
Posts: 1706
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:08 pm
Been liked: 1 time

LawPoke wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:45 am ......sometimes what glitters is not gold.
This is my take as well...The transfers have completely been a bust. There was nothing there. In fairness to Linder...It's not like there were even any hot takes that this was the case before the season...everybody was projecting Wyo to be a top team in conference and a dark horse to make a run in March. It would be one thing if we were fighting for 5th place in the conference...that would have been a "dissapointment"....these results are just bewildering...we just stink.
User avatar
laxwyo
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 8903
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:27 am
Location: Rock Springs, WY
Has liked: 4 times

307bball wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:06 pm
LawPoke wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:45 am ......sometimes what glitters is not gold.
This is my take as well...The transfers have completely been a bust. There was nothing there. In fairness to Linder...It's not like there were even any hot takes that this was the case before the season...everybody was projecting Wyo to be a top team in conference and a dark horse to make a run in March. It would be one thing if we were fighting for 5th place in the conference...that would have been a "dissapointment"....these results are just bewildering...we just stink.
I think there were higher expectations on the transfers because of where they came from but also because we didn't lose anything to get them. We had some dudes that left the team that were probably never going to play. Even a mild upgrade from the guys that left should have put us in a pretty good spot. The reality appears to be that they weren't any better.
W-Y, Until I Die!
OrediggerPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 5146
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:57 am
Been liked: 2 times

laxwyo wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 5:47 pm
307bball wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 4:06 pm

This is my take as well...The transfers have completely been a bust. There was nothing there. In fairness to Linder...It's not like there were even any hot takes that this was the case before the season...everybody was projecting Wyo to be a top team in conference and a dark horse to make a run in March. It would be one thing if we were fighting for 5th place in the conference...that would have been a "dissapointment"....these results are just bewildering...we just stink.
I think there were higher expectations on the transfers because of where they came from but also because we didn't lose anything to get them. We had some dudes that left the team that were probably never going to play. Even a mild upgrade from the guys that left should have put us in a pretty good spot. The reality appears to be that they weren't any better.
While there is no way of knowing, I’d bet we would be better with Bowen, Dut and Grigsby than Max, Ethan and Kyman.
User avatar
LanderPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 9966
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Been liked: 3 times

I like Anderson and think he’s a good player. The other two have not panned out at all
flyfishwyo
Ranch Hand
Posts: 131
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:56 pm
Has liked: 1 time

LanderPoke wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:58 pm I like Anderson and think he’s a good player. The other two have not panned out at all
I agree. Ethan was a good addition. He's one of a very few on this team that can create his own shot and make it (54%). This team really needs his offensive contribution. His FT shooting has improved over the last few games, but it's still not good. He plays reasonable defense.

Kyman doesn't shoot well enough to make up for his lack of athleticism. It seems like he has good effort, but not great results.

The one I don't get is Agbonkpolo. It seems like he has all of the physical tools. Between the turnovers and missed defensive assignments it's hard to keep him on the floor.
OrediggerPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 5146
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:57 am
Been liked: 2 times

Linder’s answer to the question pretty much seals the deal for this year. Will be interesting if Ike returns to Wyoming. The statement of Linder certainly doesn’t give any extra hope that we will see him again at Wyoming. Hope I’m just reading too much into the quote and Ike is a Cowboy next year.

https://7220sports.com/will-wyomings-gr ... tid=Zxz2cZ
User avatar
LanderPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 9966
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:47 pm
Location: Laramie
Been liked: 3 times

OrediggerPoke wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:08 pm Linder’s answer to the question pretty much seals the deal for this year. Will be interesting if Ike returns to Wyoming. The statement of Linder certainly doesn’t give any extra hope that we will see him again at Wyoming. Hope I’m just reading too much into the quote and Ike is a Cowboy next year.

https://7220sports.com/will-wyomings-gr ... tid=Zxz2cZ
Not sure what you are referring to. That was the usual generic, innocuous quote. Pretty much what Linder has said from the beginning.

Ike obviously doesn't feel OK about playing this year. I, personally, think Ike will be in the Brown and Gold next year ready to have a monster year.
OrediggerPoke
Bronco-Buster
Posts: 5146
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:57 am
Been liked: 2 times

LanderPoke wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:44 pm
OrediggerPoke wrote: Mon Jan 30, 2023 3:08 pm Linder’s answer to the question pretty much seals the deal for this year. Will be interesting if Ike returns to Wyoming. The statement of Linder certainly doesn’t give any extra hope that we will see him again at Wyoming. Hope I’m just reading too much into the quote and Ike is a Cowboy next year.

https://7220sports.com/will-wyomings-gr ... tid=Zxz2cZ
Not sure what you are referring to. That was the usual generic, innocuous quote. Pretty much what Linder has said from the beginning.

Ike obviously doesn't feel OK about playing this year. I, personally, think Ike will be in the Brown and Gold next year ready to have a monster year.
"It's what's best for him and it's what's best for him moving forward in his career..." Nothing about best for him and ensuring that he returns to the Cowboys at full strength. In any event, it is pure speculation.

Surprising news is that Foster might return. Being his last year, I say let Foster finish on a high note by starting any games he is available for.
Post Reply