CSU Basketball Crowds

[Wyowilly2015]

Just saw a tweet from Kevin Lytle of the Coloradoan: Interesting fact: The Wyoming women's basketball team is averaging more fans per game than the CSU men's team (3,443 to 3,436).

Hasn't Shyatt said again and again how CSU has such good environments for basketball? He has hammered it on his weekly press conferences and on the radio show and on his post games for the past several years. Well coach, please get your facts straight before applauding your biggest rival while taking subtle shots at your own fans. They fill the GYM once or twice a year (if they are lucky enough to get the help from Wyoming fans) and they are already gloating that they have sold 5,000 tickets for tomorrow nights game....big fricking deal.

Don't get me wrong, I love Coach Shyatt and what he has done with Wyoming Basketball but he needs to never talk about the atmosphere in Moby Gym again unless he is talking about the Wyoming fans that take over the place.

GO POKES - BEAT THE SHEEP!

[stymeman]

more saturday games, it's hard for people to get to Laramie on a Tues/Wed night, I get that, but how come the fans (if there are any) in Laramie don't come out more?? it would be nice to see 8500-9000 a night, but it has to be an event anymore, kinda sad; PS been to Moby 4 times in my career and I really hate going to that barn, lol

[wyopig]

Wyoming fans don't deserve subtle shots. They deserve a kick in the ass. Shyatt knows what he's doing when he praises CSU. He's said that it's better than Cameron Indoor at Moby. He's trying to piss off Wyoming fans, and unfortunately, we just complain that he's complimenting our biggest rival as we sit on our couch watching home games streaming on our iPad.

[Wyowilly2015]

I agree that Wyoming fans need a kick in the butt and that Laramie residents need to be the first to step up to the plate and support the programs more. I also understand that Shyatt knows what he is doing but I believe he has alienated more fans than he realizes.
There should by 7k plus there for Saturday's game regardless of how the CSU game goes but if the Pokes win, there should be 9k plus.

[LanderPoke]

Some grassroots program building would go a long way in Laramie.

[POKE FAN]

Nothing surprising about Shyatt's comments at all. Shyatt is no different than any other coach who says positive things about the opponent leading up to the game. A lot of us have been to Moby Gymnasium enough times over the years to know that there would be no atmosphere down there for the Border War without a large contingent of Cowboys fans.

[Cowboy Junky]

It's not like Shy is lying. Since he's been back in the league, Moby has been packed for every Wyoming game. With our presence of fans and their recent success, they've had a full building when they host Wyoming.

Sure, the building is half empty for every other game of the season. It's not for Wyoming. When they host us Moby gets full.

That's the truth. Shy isn't making it up.

[wyopig]

It's not like Shy is lying. Since he's been back in the league, Moby has been packed for every Wyoming game. With our presence of fans and their recent success, they've had a full building when they host Wyoming.

Sure, the building is half empty for every other game of the season. It's not for Wyoming. When they host us Moby gets full.

That's the truth. Shy isn't making it up.

That's actually a fact. Even when Shyatt won down there in 1998, the game at Moby was sold out. Also, as much as I hate to admit it, the atmosphere has been pretty intense in there the past few years, and we've only come reasonably close to winning down there once since Shyatt has been back.

CSU obviously only packs it for us. I wish we could do the same for them.

[POKE FAN]

Average home attendance figures to date:

New Mexico 14253
San Diego State 12414
UNLV 11421
Utah State 8520
Fresno State 5441
Wyoming 5426
Nevada 5227
Boise State 4006
Colorado State 3436
Air Force 1194
San Jose State 1194

[NowherePoke]

Here is my perspective. For the 14-15 season, the Pokes have the following:

1. A 13-2 record and receiving votes in the AP Poll. Now, those of us that post on here know that our NCAA tourney hopes are somewhat faint due to weak RPI and SOS numbers, but I simply don't believe poor RPI numbers are keeping people at home.

2. A recognizable and marketable star in Larry Nance, Jr. Probably the most marketable athlete at UW since Marcus Bailey.

3. A renovated arena in it's first year with a new configuration (yes, some of the fan aspects that are in Phase 2 aren't done yet).

4. A senior dominated lineup expected to be our best team in a decade.

What has that resulted in so far? An average home attendance of 5426. The last time we had some of the above ingredients (NCAA hopes, senior team, marketable star) in 02-03, we averaged 9150 through 7 home OOC games. Those games were played in November and December (Laramie climate was the same then) and were played against DU, Detroit, Boise State, IPFW, Prairie View A&M, Savannah St., and South Carolina (not a marquee slate). That team opened play with over 11k in the stands for New Mexico.

Now, I am not expecting us to match 02-03, after all we are coming off a CBI birth, not a NCAA tourney win. However, 5400 is way below what should be expected and Shyatt's continued disappointment in attendance (sometimes subtle, sometimes not) is understandable. I understand that McClain's last 4 years and Heath Schroyer eroded the fan base but this is Shyatt's 4th year and this team is everything Wyoming fans say they want. They are successful (13-2), disciplined (among the nation's leaders in A/FGM, A:TO ratio, etc.), well spoken on and off the court, etc.

I can only make it to 2-3 home games a year typically since I live in Texas and have small children, so I am probably not the right person to complain about other's not attending games, but if fans don't come out to see this group in this season? Well, they are never coming back because it doesn't get much better than this.

Now, are CSU fans even worse? Of course, they were undefeated and ranked and couldn't outdraw a .500 Women's team at UW. But, they have never had a good fanbase for basketball. I would have to do a little research, but until the last couple of years of Schroyer I believe Wyoming had outdrawn CSU every year in Men's BB since the A-A was built. We should be drawing like Utah St., not Colorado St.

[POKE FAN]

Average home attendance figures to date:

New Mexico 14253
San Diego State 12414
UNLV 11421
Utah State 8520
Fresno State 5441
Wyoming 5426
Nevada 5227
Boise State 4006
Colorado State 3436
Air Force 1194
San Jose State 1194

CSU has at least a 180K+ population base (FtC/Loveland area) within an easy driving distance to Moby. Twice what WYO has (Laramie/Cheyenne) -- and a good portion of our fans have to fight the summit during the winter.

Fresno is a morgue nowadays -- which is shocking. They used to have great crowds at home and at the NCAA tourneys.

Boise should be embarrassed, along with CSU.

[wyopig]

There are at least 250,000 people within 15 miles of Moby Gym. There are 30,000 people within 15 miles of the AA.

I'm still not satisfied with our attendance, and won't be until we're averaging over 8 or 9k per game.

[LanderPoke]

Here is my perspective. For the 14-15 season, the Pokes have the following:

1. A 13-2 record and receiving votes in the AP Poll. Now, those of us that post on here know that our NCAA tourney hopes are somewhat faint due to weak RPI and SOS numbers, but I simply don't believe poor RPI numbers are keeping people at home.

2. A recognizable and marketable star in Larry Nance, Jr. Probably the most marketable athlete at UW since Marcus Bailey.

3. A renovated arena in it's first year with a new configuration (yes, some of the fan aspects that are in Phase 2 aren't done yet).

4. A senior dominated lineup expected to be our best team in a decade.

What has that resulted in so far? An average home attendance of 5426. The last time we had some of the above ingredients (NCAA hopes, senior team, marketable star) in 02-03, we averaged 9150 through 7 home OOC games. Those games were played in November and December (Laramie climate was the same then) and were played against DU, Detroit, Boise State, IPFW, Prairie View A&M, Savannah St., and South Carolina (not a marquee slate). That team opened play with over 11k in the stands for New Mexico.

Now, I am not expecting us to match 02-03, after all we are coming off a CBI birth, not a NCAA tourney win. However, 5400 is way below what should be expected and Shyatt's continued disappointment in attendance (sometimes subtle, sometimes not) is understandable. I understand that McClain's last 4 years and Heath Schroyer eroded the fan base but this is Shyatt's 4th year and this team is everything Wyoming fans say they want. They are successful (13-2), disciplined (among the nation's leaders in A/FGM, A:TO ratio, etc.), well spoken on and off the court, etc.

I can only make it to 2-3 home games a year typically since I live in Texas and have small children, so I am probably not the right person to complain about other's not attending games, but if fans don't come out to see this group in this season? Well, they are never coming back because it doesn't get much better than this.

Now, are CSU fans even worse? Of course, they were undefeated and ranked and couldn't outdraw a .500 Women's team at UW. But, they have never had a good fanbase for basketball. I would have to do a little research, but until the last couple of years of Schroyer I believe Wyoming had outdrawn CSU every year in Men's BB since the A-A was built. We should be drawing like Utah St., not Colorado St.

I think you are underestimating the detriment to the program under Bad McClain/Schroyer. There's an entire generation of fans that thinks Wyoming sucks at sports. The only reason I'm a die-hard is because my parents taught me well. It's going to take a couple years of meaningful success to wash off that stink. I mean, we haven't had a winning conference record since that 02-03 team that we all revere. With all due respect to Shy, Duncan, Larry, Josh, and Grabeu (I love these guys) we haven't accomplished poop. I promise once we show the fans a little something they'll come back.

[McPeachy]

Here is my perspective. For the 14-15 season, the Pokes have the following:

1. A 13-2 record and receiving votes in the AP Poll. Now, those of us that post on here know that our NCAA tourney hopes are somewhat faint due to weak RPI and SOS numbers, but I simply don't believe poor RPI numbers are keeping people at home.

2. A recognizable and marketable star in Larry Nance, Jr. Probably the most marketable athlete at UW since Marcus Bailey.

3. A renovated arena in it's first year with a new configuration (yes, some of the fan aspects that are in Phase 2 aren't done yet).

4. A senior dominated lineup expected to be our best team in a decade.

What has that resulted in so far? An average home attendance of 5426. The last time we had some of the above ingredients (NCAA hopes, senior team, marketable star) in 02-03, we averaged 9150 through 7 home OOC games. Those games were played in November and December (Laramie climate was the same then) and were played against DU, Detroit, Boise State, IPFW, Prairie View A&M, Savannah St., and South Carolina (not a marquee slate). That team opened play with over 11k in the stands for New Mexico.

Now, I am not expecting us to match 02-03, after all we are coming off a CBI birth, not a NCAA tourney win. However, 5400 is way below what should be expected and Shyatt's continued disappointment in attendance (sometimes subtle, sometimes not) is understandable. I understand that McClain's last 4 years and Heath Schroyer eroded the fan base but this is Shyatt's 4th year and this team is everything Wyoming fans say they want. They are successful (13-2), disciplined (among the nation's leaders in A/FGM, A:TO ratio, etc.), well spoken on and off the court, etc.

I can only make it to 2-3 home games a year typically since I live in Texas and have small children, so I am probably not the right person to complain about other's not attending games, but if fans don't come out to see this group in this season? Well, they are never coming back because it doesn't get much better than this.

Now, are CSU fans even worse? Of course, they were undefeated and ranked and couldn't outdraw a .500 Women's team at UW. But, they have never had a good fanbase for basketball. I would have to do a little research, but until the last couple of years of Schroyer I believe Wyoming had outdrawn CSU every year in Men's BB since the A-A was built. We should be drawing like Utah St., not Colorado St.

Great post. I have a question (or questions) for you:

1. Do you feel / think that the Bucky firing (and largely his job hunting and last few years performance), paired with Heath hiring and extending, has decimated UW hoops attendance so much, that it will never (or a very long time) make it back to the 2002-3-ish levels?

2. Do you feel that apathy has just completely taken over when it comes to the heavy supporters and avid Wyoming basketball fans...and is...as such...just that much more evident than what we see on the football field?

3. Do you feel other factors (other than number 1 and 2) are the cause...like the economy crush in 2008-ish, unaffordable care act, TV & game streaming, game & fan experience, CJC hostage program?

[TSpoke]

I agree we need 8-9K. I think(hope) we begin to see that this conference season if we continue to win. Part of the problem with the OOC schedule(for me at least) was there was so many home games so close together against not great teams. I have it easy as only living in cheyenne but to go over 3 times in a week is a bit much for me so I missed some of the games. If I lived in Laramie, I wouldn't have missed a game.
Now that conference season is in swing it will be easier for me to come over(more important opponents, not as many games back to back). I will be at every confernece game.
I am starting to feel some momentum growing. and have some friends that haven't been going to games or interested in basketball beginning to want to go over. If we can win tomorrow we should have a great crowd on Saturday, even if we don't I think we will have a good one.

[wellpoke]

I think you are underestimating the detriment to the program under Bad McClain/Schroyer. There's an entire generation of fans that thinks Wyoming sucks at sports.

This. While it sucks, this is the truth. I was in Laramie for the Mclain/Schroyer debacle, and it was BAD. Convincing friends to go to games was like pulling teeth. And now, getting those friends (most of whom live in the Denver area) to come to a game, is next to impossible.

My bigger concern is the students and people of Laramie. There should be at least 1,000 students at each game (that's what, 1/10th of the student body), and Laramie should be able to turn out another 5-7000 easily. But they don't. That's the market the Dept needs to go after, cause they can show up for weeknight games.

I promise once we show the fans a little something they'll come back.

And this is exactly what it will take to bring fans back. It started in 2012, when the team went 13-0. But then we had the Martinez debacle and Washington had his trouble, and we ended up 18-12 playing in the CBI. Not too shabby, but not enough to bring the fans back. And then last year things were looking pretty good until Nance got hurt.

I think we're about to turn that corner. When we beat CSEwe Wed. night, we should have a pretty good crowd for a Saturday afternoon game against Boise. Keep winning, and the fans will come back.

GO POKES!

[LanderPoke]

I promise once we show the fans a little something they'll come back.

And this is exactly what it will take to bring fans back. It started in 2012, when the team went 13-0. But then we had the Martinez debacle and Washington had his trouble, and we ended up 18-12 playing in the CBI. Not too shabby, but not enough to bring the fans back. And then last year things were looking pretty good until Nance got hurt.

I think we're about to turn that corner. When we beat CSEwe Wed. night, we should have a pretty good crowd for a Saturday afternoon game against Boise. Keep winning, and the fans will come back.

GO POKES![/quote]

You are correct. The fans will come back once we have conference success. No one cares that we have mastered the art of beating up crappy teams. Fans want us to beat CSU, NM, UNLV, SDSU etc. It's going to take 2-3 years of winning conference records to bring the fans back and get some goodwill built up.

[stymeman]

Agreed we have to win against our conference foes and do it all the time, and yes the road wins will be huge for us to draw. I still think they need to look into blacking it out in the immediate Laramie area, i know it's cold in Jan/Feb there and people that are thinking of walking up the AA and buying a ticket and watching it on TV, we know who wins there,

I come over quite often from Cheyenne, but I'm a true hoops junky, it's been instilled in me since the Bradley/Garnett days and when Fennis's crew did what they did, it just doesn't die with me. it's just too bad it's every 15-20 years for me to revel in their glory. Shyatt's on to something and he's right if you aren't going to come now when are you.

It's too bad that we have to think about having a marketing campaign to get people excited to come watch a team, I guess sports just isn't important to anyone any more, TV has spoiled everyone, it's a good thing that the Boise St game is on a channel that a lot of people don't know exists still, CBS Sports Network...lol
I've always said if UW would make up it's mind to see if it wants to be a football or basketball school, I think we'd have a better result if they'd focus more on bball, and the success would be here for years to come. Maybe I'm wrong.

Let's hope for a good crowd against Boise St on saturday, after all the AA is due

[NowherePoke]

Here is my perspective. For the 14-15 season, the Pokes have the following:

1. A 13-2 record and receiving votes in the AP Poll. Now, those of us that post on here know that our NCAA tourney hopes are somewhat faint due to weak RPI and SOS numbers, but I simply don't believe poor RPI numbers are keeping people at home.

2. A recognizable and marketable star in Larry Nance, Jr. Probably the most marketable athlete at UW since Marcus Bailey.

3. A renovated arena in it's first year with a new configuration (yes, some of the fan aspects that are in Phase 2 aren't done yet).

4. A senior dominated lineup expected to be our best team in a decade.

What has that resulted in so far? An average home attendance of 5426. The last time we had some of the above ingredients (NCAA hopes, senior team, marketable star) in 02-03, we averaged 9150 through 7 home OOC games. Those games were played in November and December (Laramie climate was the same then) and were played against DU, Detroit, Boise State, IPFW, Prairie View A&M, Savannah St., and South Carolina (not a marquee slate). That team opened play with over 11k in the stands for New Mexico.

Now, I am not expecting us to match 02-03, after all we are coming off a CBI birth, not a NCAA tourney win. However, 5400 is way below what should be expected and Shyatt's continued disappointment in attendance (sometimes subtle, sometimes not) is understandable. I understand that McClain's last 4 years and Heath Schroyer eroded the fan base but this is Shyatt's 4th year and this team is everything Wyoming fans say they want. They are successful (13-2), disciplined (among the nation's leaders in A/FGM, A:TO ratio, etc.), well spoken on and off the court, etc.

I can only make it to 2-3 home games a year typically since I live in Texas and have small children, so I am probably not the right person to complain about other's not attending games, but if fans don't come out to see this group in this season? Well, they are never coming back because it doesn't get much better than this.

Now, are CSU fans even worse? Of course, they were undefeated and ranked and couldn't outdraw a .500 Women's team at UW. But, they have never had a good fanbase for basketball. I would have to do a little research, but until the last couple of years of Schroyer I believe Wyoming had outdrawn CSU every year in Men's BB since the A-A was built. We should be drawing like Utah St., not Colorado St.

Great post. I have a question (or questions) for you:

1. Do you feel / think that the Bucky firing (and largely his job hunting and last few years performance), paired with Heath hiring and extending, has decimated UW hoops attendance so much, that it will never (or a very long time) make it back to the 2002-3-ish levels?

2. Do you feel that apathy has just completely taken over when it comes to the heavy supporters and avid Wyoming basketball fans...and is...as such...just that much more evident than what we see on the football field?

3. Do you feel other factors (other than number 1 and 2) are the cause...like the economy crush in 2008-ish, unaffordable care act, TV & game streaming, game & fan experience, CJC hostage program?

Good questions. My comments:

1. A decade of futility is hard to underestimate, and that is certainly a key aspect. The current students were in Elementary School the last time we so much as made the NIT. They probably did not grow up the same focus on UW basketball as some of us older fans did. In terms of getting back to 02-03, I don't believe that will ever happen for reasons I will explain in a minute that tie into your other questions.

2. Apathy has clearly taken over. Not exactly sure why it is more pronounced in Basketball than Football. Neither program has had anything significant to cheer for in a decade, but Football has had a couple of seasons with hope and promise while Basketball really hasn't.

3. I think some of the fan experience items are little overstated on this board versus their true impact. I do think that TV and streaming options are a big piece and one of the reasons I don't think we will ever draw like we did in the past. I think back to when I was a kid. If I had been able to watch every Poke game then, like I do now, versus listening to it on the radio, would I have asked my Dad constantly about going to the games and would he have taken the time, money and risk (220 miles on I-80 in the winter) to bring me? Maybe, but not as much. I think this has a specific impact to Wyoming where so many fans are separated by many miles of potentially dangerous winter weather from the A-A.

Overall, I think it would take several years of success to just get back to 7-8k type average. I don't think we have the same ceiling (10k) that we had before due to the media availability I noted above along with the fact that the reduced capacity after the remodel will not allow us to bring in the marquee game crowds of 12-15k at we could before to bump up the average.

Having said all that, USU averages over 8k in a 10k building in a small town (quite a bit bigger than Laramie, but still) that is not an easy commute from other areas. I would really like to see us do the same.

[POKE FAN]

There are at least 250,000 people within 15 miles of Moby Gym. There are 30,000 people within 15 miles of the AA.

I'm still not satisfied with our attendance, and won't be until we're averaging over 8 or 9k per game.

I like your population ratios better than mine to drive home the point, but Wyoming will only start seeing consistent higher crowd figures when we see consistent, QUALITY wins (OOC and conference) for an extended period of time. The excitement building during the last two years, then the bad news hitting, really took the wind out of the sails of many of the less-than-hardcore fans. Believe me, I had to endure the whining.

Access to televised home games on ESPNfamily, CBSCS, ROOT and even the MW streams nowadays will also hurt average attendance more in sparsely populated areas, as far as I'm concerned. Personally, I wish they could delay-broadcast WYO's home games in an effort to push more students/fans. That's just wishful thinking.

Papa Shy has this program on the right track. He just needs a little more luck moving forward.

It seems like so long ago that we had 16K+ in AA for Utah and the MWC championship.