Steve McClain...again

[BeaverPoke]

Looks like McClain is about to grab a Big10 championship as an assistant if Indiana wins tonight.

Now I know a lot of you think McClain is the worst thing to ever happen here, but which is more impressive...
Winning a MWC Championship as a head coach or winning a Big10 Championship as an assistant?

The MWC wasn't as strong when McClain was winning MWC titles as it is now, but the BIG10 is much stronger now than it was even a few years ago.

And what is next for McClain? Does he get a bigtime job? And when I say big time I mean the Big10, Big12, ACC, Big East, Pac12, or MWC.

Does the conference/team he heads to depend more on how far Indiana goes this season?
Or does he even leave Indiana?

I feel like if he leaves it is only to become a head coach again.

All the McClain haters if all you're gonna say is he sucks and ruined our program, I've heard it before so don't even say it.
But to people who can give a reasonable thought about it, go ahead.

 

[NowherePoke]

Looks like McClain is about to grab a Big10 championship as an assistant if Indiana wins tonight.

Now I know a lot of you think McClain is the worst thing to ever happen here, but which is more impressive...
Winning a MWC Championship as a head coach or winning a Big10 Championship as an assistant?

The MWC wasn't as strong when McClain was winning MWC titles as it is now, but the BIG10 is much stronger now than it was even a few years ago.

And what is next for McClain? Does he get a bigtime job? And when I say big time I mean the Big10, Big12, ACC, Big East, Pac12, or MWC.

Does the conference/team he heads to depend more on how far Indiana goes this season?
Or does he even leave Indiana?

I feel like if he leaves it is only to become a head coach again.

All the McClain haters if all you're gonna say is he sucks and ruined our program, I've heard it before so don't even say it.
But to people who can give a reasonable thought about it, go ahead.

UNLV is a Top 15 RPI team with the potential for a deep tournament run and they ran us out of our old gym. Maybe we should hire one of their assistants?

 

[NowherePoke]

McClain will get another head coaching job if he wants it, and it will be at a higher level than I thought it would be when he left here.

I believe he will be able to land a MVC/MAC/CUSA/A10 type of job (equivalent to a Wyoming-level MWC job). When he left here I thought he would have to settle for something more in the Summit/WAC/Big Sky type range, but I think a couple of things have really worked in his favor:

1. He has been an assistant on some pretty good teams. No doubt about it.

2. We suck. Thanks to our performance under Shyatt and Schroyer it pretty much tells everyone that nobody can win at Wyoming so McClain must be a genius. This will also help Schroyer land a future gig if Shyatt continues to lead us to the pigtail game.



P.S. I really like Steve actually. I just didn't like going 23-37 in MWC over 4 years.. of course, since Shyatt is 10-19, maybe I should just accept that we will never win here and be happy with our fate.

 

[bladerunnr]

The MWC wasn't as strong when McClain was winning MWC titles as it is now, but the BIG10 is much stronger now than it was even a few years ago.

I remember when we hired another big ten assistant. Remember Joby Wright? One of Bobby Knight's own. Probably the second worst coach we've ever had here (Heath being number 1). I wish McClain well but I don't regret getting rid of him. And again, he may not get another shot. And again, Heath may. And again, I hope not.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Looks like McClain is about to grab a Big10 championship as an assistant if Indiana wins tonight.

Now I know a lot of you think McClain is the worst thing to ever happen here, but which is more impressive...
Winning a MWC Championship as a head coach or winning a Big10 Championship as an assistant?

The MWC wasn't as strong when McClain was winning MWC titles as it is now, but the BIG10 is much stronger now than it was even a few years ago.

And what is next for McClain? Does he get a bigtime job? And when I say big time I mean the Big10, Big12, ACC, Big East, Pac12, or MWC.

Does the conference/team he heads to depend more on how far Indiana goes this season?
Or does he even leave Indiana?

I feel like if he leaves it is only to become a head coach again.

All the McClain haters if all you're gonna say is he sucks and ruined our program, I've heard it before so don't even say it.
But to people who can give a reasonable thought about it, go ahead.

UNLV is a Top 15 RPI team with the potential for a deep tournament run and they ran us out of our old gym. Maybe we should hire one of their assistants?

Yeah lemme know when UNLV can actually beat NM for the MWC title...and lemme know when they are winning the Big10.

And like I was getting at...I don't care if you don't like him or not. I'm not a huge fan but I like that he won us titles. I was just wondering if you guys think he will get another big job.
When he left I didn't think he would do crap. But apparently that is not true...

 

[BeaverPoke]

Didn't McClain do pretty successful recruiting in Chicago?
McClain could probably build a solid contender in a team like Illinois State of Southern Illinois.
I could see him winning the MVC in 4 years if he were to go to S. Illinois or Illinois State.

 

[NowherePoke]

Didn't McClain do pretty successful recruiting in Chicago?
McClain could probably build a solid contender in a team like Illinois State of Southern Illinois.
I could see him winning the MVC in 4 years if he were to go to S. Illinois or Illinois State.

That's the type of job I think he could do really well at. Each of those schools just hired new coaches last year, so he probably won't end up there, but I think the Drake job might open up in the MVC which might be intriguing. I think if Lusk doesn't work out at MSU, that they might want to take a look at McClain.

 

[NowherePoke]

Looks like McClain is about to grab a Big10 championship as an assistant if Indiana wins tonight.

Now I know a lot of you think McClain is the worst thing to ever happen here, but which is more impressive...
Winning a MWC Championship as a head coach or winning a Big10 Championship as an assistant?

The MWC wasn't as strong when McClain was winning MWC titles as it is now, but the BIG10 is much stronger now than it was even a few years ago.

And what is next for McClain? Does he get a bigtime job? And when I say big time I mean the Big10, Big12, ACC, Big East, Pac12, or MWC.

Does the conference/team he heads to depend more on how far Indiana goes this season?
Or does he even leave Indiana?

I feel like if he leaves it is only to become a head coach again.

All the McClain haters if all you're gonna say is he sucks and ruined our program, I've heard it before so don't even say it.
But to people who can give a reasonable thought about it, go ahead.

UNLV is a Top 15 RPI team with the potential for a deep tournament run and they ran us out of our old gym. Maybe we should hire one of their assistants?

Yeah lemme know when UNLV can actually beat NM for the MWC title...and lemme know when they are winning the Big10.

And like I was getting at...I don't care if you don't like him or not. I'm not a huge fan but I like that he won us titles. I was just wondering if you guys think he will get another big job.
When he left I didn't think he would do crap. But apparently that is not true...

Tough to win the Big 10 when you play in the MWC. That's a very weak argument.

Beat UNM? Give them a little time.

Let me come up with a different option then, how about someone that won national titles in the SEC as an assistant? Would that be ok?

What I can't figure out is why you are constantly posting overly positive things on here (Pokes will win the MWC!), then turn around and want us to bring back Steve McClain. Steve was not a bad coach, but you seem to believe UW is capable of great things. Steve proved he wasn't up to that task. He had 9 years at UW. He reached the postseason 4 times (3 NIT, 1 NCAA), but none of those in his last 4 years and didn't finish with a winning conference record in his last 4 seasons. I actually think McClain is capable of more than that, but sometimes things get stale and a fresh start is best for everyone. Plus, he was a pretty young coach when he took over. He has had an opportunity since then to gain some different perspectives and I think he could do well in a new job.

Keep in mind that the general trajectory for McClain was downward. Attendance dropped from over 10k in 02-03 to less than 6k 4 years later. The team went 23-37 in MWC play and did not play in the post season for 4 consecutive years. They experienced negative publicity on and off the court (the stomping issue being the most notable, although obviously Shyatt's group has topped that..thanks Luke!). Frankly, he started to gamble on some players that shouldn't have been here due to attitude/trouble issues (Steve Leven and his checkbook being the worst of the group) and that only works if you win. All in all, the program was just not in a good place at the time of his firing. It doesn't make him a bad coach, but I do think he made some mistakes.

The biggest issue with McClain is that he really dropped the ball in recruiting with the 2002-2004 classes. He picked it up again starting in 2005 (Ewing, Jones, Okoye, Nelson), but it's really a shame that he wasn't able to capitalize on the incredible momentum that was there around 2000-2003 (2 MWC titles, 10k attendance, etc.). Also remember that he was interviewing and/or publicly linked to other jobs at that time. While it's understandable, that is a hot button for Wyoming fans, especially at that point with Tiller/Shyatt/Dimel/Erickson/Brandenburg/etc. still relatively fresh in everyone's mind. The perception (no way to prove it) is that this job hunting perception (which was probably overblown to tell you the truth) hurt him in recruiting. Either via a lack of effort on the part of him and his staff (which I don't believe) or the impact of negative recruiting telling recruits that he won't be there (which I put more stock in).

 

[BeaverPoke]

Tough to win the Big 10 when you play in the MWC. That's a very weak argument.

Beat UNM? Give them a little time.

Let me come up with a different option then, how about someone that won national titles in the SEC as an assistant? Would that be ok?

What I can't figure out is why you are constantly posting overly positive things on here (Pokes will win the MWC!), then turn around and want us to bring back Steve McClain. Steve was not a bad coach, but you seem to believe UW is capable of great things. Steve proved he wasn't up to that task.

Pretty sure I said I am not a huge fan of him but am a fan that he won MWC titles...
And I NEVER said that I wanted him back.
And when you were comparing UNLVs assistant which you obviously meant Schroyer I was comparing McClains team as an assistant to Schoryers as an assistant.

And again I never said I wanted him back and would MUCH RATHER have Shyatt (the assistant coach who wins National Titles)...So every part of your argument is you just assuming stuff that I want McClain back etc...

And everything else like I said is stuff I have heard before. Everyone has gone off on their rant about how McClain used to have good teams then his final years dropped off....I was never arguing that it didn't.

My WHOLE point was that McClain>Schroyer and I think he can get a big time job. I don't need everyone down my throat for liking and hoping the ONLY coach to EVER win Wyoming a MWC title gets a good job.

 

[wellpoke]

I liked McClain when he was here, and wish him well. He'll get another head job if he wants it, but where it will be I don't know. And good for him. He's proven to be a good if not great assistant coach and deserves another shot.

And yes, McClain was better than Schroyer. I don't think many here will question that fact. The only thing Schroyer did better than McClain was the academics. And that wasn't all Schroyer's doing. The department dedicated several tutors and lots of time to the basketball team to fix the academic situation, Schroyer benefited from that.

McClain's biggest problem at Wyoming was that he always intended to use Wyoming as a stepping stone. That's clear to me in hindsight, and that's fine. I don't mind a coach looking to better themselves, as long as they leave our program in better shape than what they found it. Look at Miles at CSEwe. He was never going to stay there for 20 years, but he never neglected his duties, and built a great foundation for that program. They'll be reaping those benefits for the next ten years.

McClain neglected recruiting (or so it seemed) for two years and couldn't recover from that. Had he focused on getting in good classes after the NCAA run in 02-03 instead of shopping himself for other jobs, he could have maintained that momentum that was there, won a couple more championships, and probably have one of those big jobs now.

 

[stymeman]

it's all about recruiting if we can't start getting D1 players then we're truly in a world of hurt, that's what it all comes down to!!

 

[BeaverPoke]

I think Wyo is always gonna be a stepping stone for mens hoops and football.
Shyatt (part 1), McClain, and Schroyer certainly did not plan on being a Wyo cowboy for ever. I think we are lucky that we have a coach in Shyatt that doesn't want to leave.
And Shyatt has set up unrealistic expectations for the fan base as a whole. I mean the whole "he recruited the players that won the MWC the first time he was here". Then winning 2 National Championships as an assistant. Then being voted the top assistant in the country for multiple years. Then saying that he wants to finish his career here. Then turning a back to back 10 win team into a 21 win team in year 1 (of part 2). And going undefeated in OOC play this season. He is now 29-3 against non-MWC teams in part 2 of his UW career. And how many Top 25 teams has he beaten so far?

It is still hard after all of those good things that have happened, to think we are still in a rebuilding phase and are probably going to take a few more kicks before we become the next New Mexico.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

it's all about recruiting if we can't start getting D1 players then we're truly in a world of hurt, that's what it all comes down to!!

No, it's not just simply about recruiting. While recruiting is very important, there are numerous other factors. Schroyer recruited better than any Wyoming basektball coach (including Brandenburg). Schroyer couldn't coach or manage and the team never even came anywhere close to its potential.

If Shyatt had/has the capability of recruiting at the same talent level as Schroyer, the Pokes would/will be a serious contender.

Given everything, I would take Shyatt over Schroyer every day of the week.

 

[BeaverPoke]

it's all about recruiting if we can't start getting D1 players then we're truly in a world of hurt, that's what it all comes down to!!

No, it's not just simply about recruiting. While recruiting is very important, there are numerous other factors. Schroyer recruited better than any Wyoming basektball coach (including Brandenburg). Schroyer couldn't coach or manage and the team never even came anywhere close to its potential.

If Shyatt had/has the capability of recruiting at the same talent level as Schroyer, the Pokes would/will be a serious contender.

Given everything, I would take Shyatt over Schroyer every day of the week.

I think we give it a little bit of time before we say Shyatt can not recruit.
Larry Nance and Josh Adams are lookin like they might be total studs when it is all done.

And I don't really know that Schroyer is the best recruiter we have had...McClain got Marcus Bailey, and Brandon Ewing, and Afam Moujeke right?

 

[OrediggerPoke]

No, it's not just simply about recruiting. While recruiting is very important, there are numerous other factors. Schroyer recruited better than any Wyoming basektball coach (including Brandenburg). Schroyer couldn't coach or manage and the team never even came anywhere close to its potential.

If Shyatt had/has the capability of recruiting at the same talent level as Schroyer, the Pokes would/will be a serious contender.

Given everything, I would take Shyatt over Schroyer every day of the week.

I think we give it a little bit of time before we say Shyatt can not recruit.

Notice has/had and would/will...thereby indicating that no conclusion is yet to be drawn as to Shyatt's recruiting ability.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

And I don't really know that Schroyer is the best recruiter we have had...McClain got Marcus Bailey, and Brandon Ewing, and Afam Moujeke right?

Bailey only had one other offer...to Colorado School of Mines. If I recall, he was a late signee to fill an available scholly and no real recruiting effort was made to bring him to Wyoming.

Ewing was a good player and a class act. Ewing, IMO, did not have the same potential as some of Schroyer's recruits.

Who knows how good players like Afam or Ugo Udezue could have been without their injuries.

 

[Wyolie Coyote]

And I don't really know that Schroyer is the best recruiter we have had...McClain got Marcus Bailey, and Brandon Ewing, and Afam Moujeke right?

Bailey only had one other offer...to Colorado School of Mines. If I recall, he was a late signee to fill an available scholly and no real recruiting effort was made to bring him to Wyoming.

Ewing was a good player and a class act. Ewing, IMO, did not have the same potential as some of Schroyer's recruits.

Who knows how good players like Afam or Ugo Udezue could have been without their injuries.

Mclain recruited Bailey, Straight, Justin Williams, Uche, Donta Richardson, Ewing, Brad Jones, et al. Schroyer recruited Afam and Shyatt recruited Ugo. I would say that Ewing had as much or more potential that any of Schroyer's recruits. Schroyer tried to run Ewing off for 2 years, that kid was special and a true Cowboy. Screw Heath Schroyer, worst coaching hire this University ever made.

 

[Wyokie]

Screw Heath Schroyer, worst coaching hire this University ever made.

LOL What about Joby Wright? He was ultra-horrible.

 

[BeaverPoke]

Screw Heath Schroyer, worst coaching hire this University ever made.

Yeah I agree. So to nowherepoke, even saying that thing about a UNLV assistant coach....come on dude shame on you...
And the whole Marcus Bailey thing...again you guys??? We got the story from him a few weeks ago during another argument lol.

 

[McPeachy]

Not again! Nooooooooooooooooo