OT: 2020 Cheyenne Frontier Days cancelled

[Wyokie]

https://apnews.com/dcba75922c6ba9e2c69dcc8b29677900

First time it happened in 124 years. Survived the Spanish Flu and two World Wars but not the Coronavirus. :roll:

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

I think it's pretty smart. It sucks from some standpoints, but it would also be a major influx of potentially affected people into Wyoming.

The prediction models for Colorado going forward are interesting:
https://covid19.colorado.gov/sites/covid19/files/MayModelingReport_20200523_FINAL.pdf

Being involved in the camp industry right now sucks balls. We just had our first round of layoffs ever today... pretty sure I won't last through the next one that's more or less inevitable the way things are going, especially now that several hundred kids have suddenly been affected by the Kawasaki-like COVID syndroms. The question is whether that's a "new" thing that's starting to break out, or if it's just really rare and we weren''t paying attention until now.

 

[fromolwyoming]

Yeah, a heavy influx of thousands of people, all crammed into a small area, with a virus that spreads faster then the sheep during the Border War? Yeah.

And back in 1918, the Spanish Flu wasn't widely publicized except for in Spain, despite most likely starting in Kansas. And it killed, low estimate, of 17 million people. With high estimates as much as 50 million.

And that was when the world was less populated and connected.

 

[Wyokie]

And back in 1918, the Spanish Flu wasn't widely publicized except for in Spain, despite most likely starting in Kansas. And it killed, low estimate, of 17 million people. With high estimates as much as 50 million.

From the books I've read and online info, the low est. for the Spanish Flu was around 20-30 million and the high was around 100 million in a world population of 1.8 billion in 1918.

You are correct that the most likely starting point was in Kansas but there two other starting point theories...one being in China (no shocker there :roll: ) and the other was around the Western Front during the last days of WWI.

And like the current pandemic, the first round of the Spanish Flu wasn't that bad. It was the second round around mid-September 1918 that caused most of the deaths.

Side note: Historians think that the Spanish Flu is what caused the first World War to end like it did....and indirectly started World War II.

 

[Wyokie]

And to add to all of this...there are riots in Minneapolis as I type this.

 

[bladerunnr]

Never thought I'd see such unfounded fear in a state like Wyoming. There is absolutely no evidence that the virus spreads during outdoor activities. In March, Los Angeles had 30k runners from all over the world in the marathon and no outbreak. In fact, all the outbreaks have been in indoor spaces.

The handwriting is on the wall. We won't have football this year. I can't imagine basketball will happen either. Those of you who want to stay home are welcome to do so. The rest of us who are willing to take a small amount of risk to live our lives should be allowed to. Just remember, the helicopter money being printed will be worth less and less as the trillions pile up.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

The Kawasaki-like syndrome is nearly 100% treatable. The CDC lowered the death rate to about 0.26%; that is a fact. If you are under 18 there is almost no effect of this virus. If you are under 50 and healthy there is almost no effect of this virus. If you have health problems or are older, you should take precautions.

However, make no mistake about it, the closing of these major rodeos is about a more severe consequence of the virus: our ridiculous response to it and likely even more ridiculous response to it in the future. The cure is much worse than the virus itself. We have set up for another depression and will have widespread poverty. We have force people to stay home and avoid medical treatment they need (cancer, diabetes, stroke, etc.). We have set the stage for lawsuit after lawsuit. Our current and future responses to the virus are much more and will be much more severe than the effects of the virus if it were left completely unchecked. This point in history will be looked upon as the greatest failing of the US ever and not from an insufficient response to the virus but to an overreaction.

These closing are about 2 words: Liability and Sponsorship. The economic fallout because of our response to the virus greatly limits the financial ability of businesses to provide sponsorship and some businesses wouldn't want to be associated with large gatherings for fear of a negative media mob running them down. Secondly, our government has failed to pass to protections against lawsuits for contracting COVID. The state, the rodeo committees, hell maybe the janitor could all be on the hook for a lawsuit if someone contracted COVID and attended the rodeo even if they caught it on the way to the rodeo. These are the things that will devastate this country. The economic depression and fear of litigation will stifle this country for years if not decades.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

I think it'll be a _long_ time before we know actual death rate of the virus. We are closing in on 100,000 pneumonia deaths this year already. A normal year has less than half that, and this most of May is still unreported (though the number isn't likely to increase dramatically). A lot of those are likely to be COVID + pneumonia, but were never tested for the former.

All of this with most people staying home and isolated for 6+ weeks.

I should mention, some states REALLY stand out with their pneumonia numbers this year:
Indiana: 1,832 COVID-19 deaths; 2,149 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 384)
Illinois: 4,856 COVID-19 deaths; 3,986 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 782)
Tennessee: 336 COVID-19 deaths; 1,704 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 611)
Ohio: 1,969 COVID-19 deaths; 2,327 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 820)
Virginia: 1,208 COVID-19 deaths; 1,394 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 451)
West Virginia: 72 COVID-19 deaths; 438 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 117)

 

[ragtimejoe1]

It should be up to the individual regarding the risk they want to endure; not the government. For all those that say you shouldn't be eligible for health care if you risk exposure, fair enough. However, if you hide in your hole, you should suffer economic depression status for the next decade and not benefit at all from those brave enough to get back to normal.

I see a lot of people being hard on the governor for these decisions associated with the rodeos. Likely, he is helping the committees. If attendance is down due to government policies and revenues down because government lock downs have devastated our economy (i.e. no sponsorship), then the rodeos were probably facing huge economic losses by hosting the event. If they cancelled because of impending economic losses, they would still be financially responsible for their contracts (at minimum deposits). By declaring no groups over 250, the governor essentially made it possible for the committees to cancel all their contracts due to an act of god and absolve their financial commitments to the contracts.

 

[Asmodeanreborn]

It should be up to the individual regarding the risk they want to endure; not the government.

Unfortunately, you don't live in a vacuum if you live in society. If I go racing drunk and high across I-80, it's not just myself I subject to risk. It has nothing to do with being "brave." I'm not particularly afraid of getting COVID. I'd be far more worried about my father-in-law getting it, for example. He's in great physical health himself, but he's a pastor who sees several hundred people every week and could quickly spread it to a ton of vulnerable people - many of whom obviously feel in need of religious interactions just because of their relatively high mortality.

This is again the reason a testing and tracing strategy is important, otherwise you'll be forced to have a society where not only do you force those in risk groups to remain isolated, but also those who in any way, shape, or form must physically interact with said risk groups as well. I want things to quickly return to whatever state of normalcy we can obtain, but why does it have to be so black and white in how we do it? It'd be rather idiotic to completely dismiss the risk of a second and more serious wave of this disease hitting. How much of a mutation would it take to hit us worse than this one?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

It should be up to the individual regarding the risk they want to endure; not the government.

Unfortunately, you don't live in a vacuum if you live in society. If I go racing drunk and high across I-80, it's not just myself I subject to risk. It has nothing to do with being "brave." I'm not particularly afraid of getting COVID. I'd be far more worried about my father-in-law getting it, for example. He's in great physical health himself, but he's a pastor who sees several hundred people every week and could quickly spread it to a ton of vulnerable people - many of whom obviously feel in need of religious interactions just because of their relatively high mortality.

Horse manure. The at risk people can choose to stay home and avoid danger. Those that aren't at risk and wish to resume their lives are not anywhere close to a drunk driver, and, frankly, I can't believe you even made such an analogy. Victims of drunk drivers had no choice. Terrible logic. In this case, we clearly know who is most at risk and should take precautions (i.e. they can choose to stay home to avoid the risk). The 85%+ that likely will suffer mild cases at most deserve the right to choose to resume life as normal. The at risk people do not live in a vacuum; they live in a society. They have no right to close the society causing significant financial damage to the remaining 85% of the population because they are at risk of contracting severe cases of the disease.

If an at risk person decides to roll the dice and go out, well, that is the chance they chose to take. If a person is scared, stay home, but their fear (warranted or not) should have no bearing on the rest of society who are not vulnerable.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

These closing are about 2 words: Liability and Sponsorship. The economic fallout because of our response to the virus greatly limits the financial ability of businesses to provide sponsorship and some businesses wouldn't want to be associated with large gatherings for fear of a negative media mob running them down. Secondly, our government has failed to pass to protections against lawsuits for contracting COVID. The state, the rodeo committees, hell maybe the janitor could all be on the hook for a lawsuit if someone contracted COVID and attended the rodeo even if they caught it on the way to the rodeo. These are the things that will devastate this country. The economic depression and fear of litigation will stifle this country for years if not decades.

I would agree with a lot of this. I would add the third thing and probably most important thing that cancelled Frontier Days comes down to economics not directly related to sponsorship and that is attendance. CFD was going to lose BIG this year if it was held. The CFD committee mitigated its losses by simply having the Governor cancel (i.e. contractual escape clauses if the event can't happen for reasons outside the control of the event planner).

I watched Governor Gordon's speech and have to say that he impresses me as a person. He fell on the sword for CFD and all of the other rodeo committees. Unfortunately for Gordon, his decision could negatively implicate his re-election chances...although I personally gained more respect for him as a leader.

PS: I am against shutdowns about as much as anyone.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

I see a lot of people being hard on the governor for these decisions associated with the rodeos. Likely, he is helping the committees. If attendance is down due to government policies and revenues down because government lock downs have devastated our economy (i.e. no sponsorship), then the rodeos were probably facing huge economic losses by hosting the event. If they cancelled because of impending economic losses, they would still be financially responsible for their contracts (at minimum deposits). By declaring no groups over 250, the governor essentially made it possible for the committees to cancel all their contracts due to an act of god and absolve their financial commitments to the contracts.

Spot on! I didn't see this post until after mine. Those committees owe the Governor a HUGE favor for falling on the sword for them.

 

[bladerunnr]

It should be up to the individual regarding the risk they want to endure; not the government.

Unfortunately, you don't live in a vacuum if you live in society. If I go racing drunk and high across I-80, it's not just myself I subject to risk. It has nothing to do with being "brave." I'm not particularly afraid of getting COVID. I'd be far more worried about my father-in-law getting it, for example. He's in great physical health himself, but he's a pastor who sees several hundred people every week and could quickly spread it to a ton of vulnerable people - many of whom obviously feel in need of religious interactions just because of their relatively high mortality.

This is again the reason a testing and tracing strategy is important, otherwise you'll be forced to have a society where not only do you force those in risk groups to remain isolated, but also those who in any way, shape, or form must physically interact with said risk groups as well. I want things to quickly return to whatever state of normalcy we can obtain, but why does it have to be so black and white in how we do it? It'd be rather idiotic to completely dismiss the risk of a second and more serious wave of this disease hitting. How much of a mutation would it take to hit us worse than this one?

I understand testing. But you're out of your mind if you think I'm going to let the govt' trace my every movement. I doubt very few people will sign on to this kind of intrusion.

 

['PokeForLife]

My brother sent this to me this morning. Something he and I have discussed for months now.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200528-why-most-covid-19-deaths-wont-be-from-the-virus

There are dire, dire consequences to our response to this whole situation. I think frontier days cancelling is a perfect example of the snowballing effect of the economic fallout, and is not a response to the virus itself. If it were about the virus he wouldn't have approved gatherings of people up to 250. He would have kept things much smaller.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Damn, Oredigger, I believe we could probably sit down for some cold beer and shoot the shit as long as we didn't discuss WYO football :rofl:

 

[LanderPoke]

pussies

 

[LanderPoke]

I think it'll be a _long_ time before we know actual death rate of the virus. We are closing in on 100,000 pneumonia deaths this year already. A normal year has less than half that, and this most of May is still unreported (though the number isn't likely to increase dramatically). A lot of those are likely to be COVID + pneumonia, but were never tested for the former.

All of this with most people staying home and isolated for 6+ weeks.

I should mention, some states REALLY stand out with their pneumonia numbers this year:
Indiana: 1,832 COVID-19 deaths; 2,149 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 384)
Illinois: 4,856 COVID-19 deaths; 3,986 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 782)
Tennessee: 336 COVID-19 deaths; 1,704 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 611)
Ohio: 1,969 COVID-19 deaths; 2,327 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 820)
Virginia: 1,208 COVID-19 deaths; 1,394 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 451)
West Virginia: 72 COVID-19 deaths; 438 pneumonia deaths (five-year average: 117)

Some really old and unhealthy people died. Stuff happens when you are old and unhealthy. And it's not that many people in the grand scheme.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

COVID logic:
Hold a gathering with over 250 and you'll be fined.

Hold a riot with hundreds looting and burning and you are fine.

 

[LanderPoke]

COVID logic:
Hold a gathering with over 250 and you'll be fined.

Hold a riot with hundreds looting and burning and you are fine.

Glad to see they're wearing their masks. Don't want to get the 'rona or pass it to anyone else when you're out committing crimes. So considerate of those around you