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One last baseball thread...

BeaverPoke

BeaverPoke

Well-known member
So I did a little more research about college baseball.

Before I mentioned that the Beavers team has 35 players on the roster, and all those staff members, and someone mentioned that there is no way the Wyo could get 35 new schollys for a baseball team.

Well, it turns out college baseball rules are...

11.7 scholarships TOTAL. Awarded to up to 23 players MAX. And a total 35 can be on the team.

So they are not full schollys awarded to each player, with the exception of pitchers sometimes, because in the end pitching is what wins games. Kids are awarded partial schollys. And paying for school isn't hard if you are from Wyo. Even from Colorado. PS...CU and CSU do NOT have baseball programs. So we wouldn't be battling with them for recruits. More like Northern Colorado and Denver University. C'mon, MWC is a lot better than Big Sky and WAC bs.

OSU built their program by getting kids from the Pacific NW where it rains all the time. That way once they were playing at home in some rain, they were mentally prepared. The head coach said something like there is no point in recruiting a 5 star player from Texas if he is going to complain about the cold.

I think Wyo can do that too. Get kids from Wyo, and Montana, even Colorado, and Utah. Get kids who aren't afraid to play in a little bit of cold.
Oh and by the way...Oregon State has to start their season on the road for about 20 games a year and they are a national powerhouse. So there goes the "They can't start on the road to start the season argument".
And by the way if you didn't know...it rains a little bit in Corvallis. And when I say a little bit, I mean always. And they get games in constantly during March and April. And it is not warm in the constant drizzle.
Wyo could absolutely get games in during March and April. I have been playing outside all Spring, and the Club team got their games in. I hate the excuses that it is too cold.

I just read a book about the 2006 National Championship OSU Baseball team, and how they played with so much PRIDE because they were mostly from Oregon. Something Wyo football fans want right? We loved that the Bramlets were from Wyo and what they brought to the program. We all love Wendling, and Chris Pro. Because they are Wyo boys and represented Wyo.

I really truly believe that Wyo could build a decent program. I'm not saying they have to go to the College World Series in Omaha every year, but one that can at least field a team and beat that pathetic "program" they run at the AFA.
With the right coach, and someone in the Athletic Department who does not lack vision (like people have mentioned before) Wyo can build a program from the ground up, from kids around Wyo and Colorado. Divide the schollys up the correct way, and build an interest in the state.

Anyways I am done posting baseball shit for a while. If you don't give a shit about it, then don't respond, no need to be a dick.
PS...baseball is better than golf and tennis
 
BeaverPoke said:
So I did a little more research about college baseball.

Before I mentioned that the Beavers team has 35 players on the roster, and all those staff members, and someone mentioned that there is no way the Wyo could get 35 new schollys for a baseball team.

Well, it turns out college baseball rules are...

11.7 scholarships TOTAL. Awarded to up to 23 players MAX. And a total 35 can be on the team.

So they are not full schollys awarded to each player, with the exception of pitchers sometimes, because in the end pitching is what wins games. Kids are awarded partial schollys. And paying for school isn't hard if you are from Wyo. Even from Colorado. PS...CU and CSU do NOT have baseball programs. So we wouldn't be battling with them for recruits. More like Northern Colorado and Denver University. C'mon, MWC is a lot better than Big Sky and WAC bs.

OSU built their program by getting kids from the Pacific NW where it rains all the time. That way once they were playing at home in some rain, they were mentally prepared. The head coach said something like there is no point in recruiting a 5 star player from Texas if he is going to complain about the cold.

I think Wyo can do that too. Get kids from Wyo, and Montana, even Colorado, and Utah. Get kids who aren't afraid to play in a little bit of cold.
Oh and by the way...Oregon State has to start their season on the road for about 20 games a year and they are a national powerhouse. So there goes the "They can't start on the road to start the season argument".
And by the way if you didn't know...it rains a little bit in Corvallis. And when I say a little bit, I mean always. And they get games in constantly during March and April. And it is not warm in the constant drizzle.
Wyo could absolutely get games in during March and April. I have been playing outside all Spring, and the Club team got their games in. I hate the excuses that it is too cold.

I just read a book about the 2006 National Championship OSU Baseball team, and how they played with so much PRIDE because they were mostly from Oregon. Something Wyo football fans want right? We loved that the Bramlets were from Wyo and what they brought to the program. We all love Wendling, and Chris Pro. Because they are Wyo boys and represented Wyo.

I really truly believe that Wyo could build a decent program. I'm not saying they have to go to the College World Series in Omaha every year, but one that can at least field a team and beat that pathetic "program" they run at the AFA.
With the right coach, and someone in the Athletic Department who does not lack vision (like people have mentioned before) Wyo can build a program from the ground up, from kids around Wyo and Colorado. Divide the schollys up the correct way, and build an interest in the state.

Anyways I am done posting baseball shit for a while. If you don't give a shit about it, then don't respond, no need to be a dick.
PS...baseball is better than golf and tennis
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I guess I don't understand what you really want? Do you want Wyoming to add baseball? If so, you must account for the following:

1. Title IX - Another long baseball post from you without a single mention of Title IX. You can't just add a Men's sport. If we add baseball we functionally need to add Women's softball as well.

2. $$$$$ - Where does the money come from? We either need private donations to fund the program (if that was a possibility it would have already happened), or we need to cut from elsewhere in the department. What can we cut? Can't cut a women's sport. Golf is far cheaper than baseball/softball so that doesn't get you there. You could cut Wrestling as well, but I have a hard time believing we would experience even remotely the same amount of success in Baseball that we do in Wrestling (and frankly, I don't watch Wrestling at all, probably my lowest level of interest of any UW sport). You can't cut any further because that would bring us below the minimum number of sports required to be FBS.


Everything else (which I will cover below) becomes irrelevant until you account for the $$$$. Keep in mind that we had baseball for many, many years. We weren't very good and it cost relatively a lot of money. That's why it was cut. It wasn't some kind of conspiracy against baseball, it was just the most likely cut because it was expensive (relatively, in comparison to other "olympic" sports) and we weren't that competitive.

Some more specific comments:

1. Weather - OSU actually only played their first 12 games on the road, 8 of them as part of an opening weekend tournament. Their first game in Corvallis was on March 1st (high in Corvallis that day = 63, high in Laramie = 38), the first of 10 straight games in Oregon (9 at home, one in Portland). They had 23 home games by the first week in May (high on May 1 in Corvallis = 70, high in Laramie on May 1 = 34). You really can't compare the two climates at all. Yes, there are a lot of drizzly days in Feb/Mar/Apr in Corvallis, but that is a lot easier to deal with than the snow and cold. If you look at those months, the average high in Laramie is about 15 degrees colder than Corvallis and the average low is about 21 degrees colder (which matters because a lot of games have to be scheduled in the evening). That's a lot and it doesn't even consider the wind. Corvallis temperatures during this period are closer to Wichita or Tulsa than to Laramie. There is a reason that even CU with all of their Big 12/Pac 12 money hasn't sponsored the sport, nor has CSU, DU,etc. AFA and UNC do, but they are horrible, hardly something to aspire to (and obviously the climate in Laramie is far harsher than Boulder or Fort Collins)

2. My ultimate point is simply that I believe it is in our best interest to devote as many resources as possible to the two revenue sports (Men's BB and FB) and a couple of niche sports where we can have success (Women's BB and Wrestling, the first of those nearly supports itself with over 3k per game attendance). Taking money away from those sports to fund baseball would be a mistake IMO.
 
Yes, I do want UW to add baseball.

And about cutting another sport, like I said, Tennis and Golf are pointless. And when the University of Oregon added baseball, they did it because they cut wrestling. Yes I get that wrestling is our best sport, but with it no longer being an olympic sport, why not cut it?

And yeah I know it takes money, I am not just assuming we can create it out of no where.

When Oregon State won the 2001 Fiesta Bowl, a lot of money that the university got from that payoff went into improving facilities to the baseball program.

Pat Casey, the OSU baseball coach was and still is very similar to Joe Glenn was in terms of his public reputation.
He has made friends with people, worked endless to get money from donors, and was able to spend the money correctly, and was backed by the AD.

I don't think we will ever add baseball under Tom Burman. That goes back to the "lacks vision" thing.
To me it is sad that with all the money the state of wyoming makes, and with only 1 university, it is such a struggle to get money into the program.
The only university in the state and we barely have enough teams to be in the MWC.

And with Title 9, add womens softball. I didn't look up numbers about softball but I assume they are the same, 11.7 schollies.

Again, I know it is easier said than done, but UW struggles to compete with major universities because of this "we are who we are" mentality.

And I get you were comparing the weather on specific dates, but it is not hard to start the season with a couple of tourneys in the south. It can easily account for 12-20 games before first pitch in Laramie.

And conference games are typically friday, saturday, and sunday games. If one game gets postponed then do a double header. Use the weather to an advantage. Get kids who want to play, and will play in some cold weather.

It is possible is what my point is, but there is this mentality that it can not be done, is what holds UW back.

How about this, if I ever get rich I will personally pay for the first 5 years of UW baseball, and do everything I can to get a coach who thinks he can win here.

Or we can bank on Brett Smith and DC taking us to a BCS game this season...
 
OSU actually only played their first 12 games on the road, 8 of them as part of an opening weekend tournament.

Little correction here, only 4 were part of a tournament.
Played Utah Valley, Gonzaga, and UC Riverside and UC Riverside again.

The next 4 were a 4 game series at San Diego.
 
And Air Force, played their first 18 games away from Colorado Springs and didn't have their home opener until March 19

They played 4 @UT-SA
4 in North Carolina, against Navy.
4 in Florida in a tourney.
3 @ Gardner-Webb
and 3 @ Nevada.
 
Gonzaga played their first 16 away from home. And had their home opener on March 15th.
Washington played their first 9 on the road but had 10 scheduled but one was cancelled and their home opener was March 1st.

I know their weather situations aren't the same, but still, it isn't warm and sunny there.
 
BeaverPoke said:
Yes, I do want UW to add baseball.

And about cutting another sport, like I said, Tennis and Golf are pointless. And when the University of Oregon added baseball, they did it because they cut wrestling. Yes I get that wrestling is our best sport, but with it no longer being an olympic sport, why not cut it?

And yeah I know it takes money, I am not just assuming we can create it out of no where.

When Oregon State won the 2001 Fiesta Bowl, a lot of money that the university got from that payoff went into improving facilities to the baseball program.

Pat Casey, the OSU baseball coach was and still is very similar to Joe Glenn was in terms of his public reputation.
He has made friends with people, worked endless to get money from donors, and was able to spend the money correctly, and was backed by the AD.

I don't think we will ever add baseball under Tom Burman. That goes back to the "lacks vision" thing.
To me it is sad that with all the money the state of wyoming makes, and with only 1 university, it is such a struggle to get money into the program.
The only university in the state and we barely have enough teams to be in the MWC.

And with Title 9, add womens softball. I didn't look up numbers about softball but I assume they are the same, 11.7 schollies.

Again, I know it is easier said than done, but UW struggles to compete with major universities because of this "we are who we are" mentality.

And I get you were comparing the weather on specific dates, but it is not hard to start the season with a couple of tourneys in the south. It can easily account for 12-20 games before first pitch in Laramie.

And conference games are typically friday, saturday, and sunday games. If one game gets postponed then do a double header. Use the weather to an advantage. Get kids who want to play, and will play in some cold weather.

It is possible is what my point is, but there is this mentality that it can not be done, is what holds UW back.

How about this, if I ever get rich I will personally pay for the first 5 years of UW baseball, and do everything I can to get a coach who thinks he can win here.

Or we can bank on Brett Smith and DC taking us to a BCS game this season...
Click to expand...


We only sponsor Women's tennis (not Men's), so it is irrelevant to the discussion. Golf is a poor fit for UW and I would never argue differently, even though I love the sport. It really is on the docket only because it is the cheapest way to fill out our required sports for MWC and FBS membership. That's pretty much it.

It may be sad that it is a struggle to get money into the program (and really is worthy of an entirely separate discussion), but it isn't really specific to baseball and even if we had an extra $5 million/yr going into the department I would rather see it go towards getting us competitive in resources in Men's BB and Football or go to a niche sport (think Skiing) where UW could be competitive on a national scale.

From my perspective, the primary justification for spending the amount of money we do to fund intercollegiate athletics (currently about $15 million dollars per year of public funds, not including capital investments) is to promote the brand of the University of Wyoming. The way you do that is with success in a revenue sport (Men's BB and FB) or national championship level success in an olympic sport and overall success in the director's cup. If we added a sport, I want to add something that I believe we can be Top 20 in. While it is only my opinion, I think history provides quite a bit of evidence that we could accomplish that in something like Skiing, while it is unlikely we would ever reach that level in baseball.

We just fundamentally disagree. If I had the capability to provide the athletic department with an 8 figure donation, those funds would be going to Basketball and Football because I believe that is where an athletic department can add value to the University.
 
Definintly agree about the football and basketball thing being a the best for brand name, but also, college baseball is growing, and if Wyo were to make it to the College World Series in Omaha, that is a lot of exposure on ESPN, and could help build a brand name more than skiing.

And to me, college baseball is something that we have a chance at being a powerhouse compared to football. It is more like basketball.
Once you get into the postseason, 1 of 64 teams, you have a chance.

And some more things, again not really baseball related, but athletic department and $$$ related, big schools have football, basketball, baseball, gymnastics, track&field, golf, etc. It goes on and on, and we struggle to meet the MWC minumum, which Wyo helped create the MWC and we still are barely in it.

If Shyatt can turn Wyo into an actual powerhouse in hoops, then a good baseball coach can turn Wyo into a decent team, who reaches the post season every now and then.
 
I've become a big baseball fan since my son started playing a few years ago. I would love to see baseball and softball back at UW.

But they will be big money losers. So if anyone wants them back, let's find our T. Boone Pickens and get it done.
 
I like baseball, I really do. I don't see this working out. The bottom line in every athletic department is money, and baseball wouldn't make much (as you've noticed with all the 'I don't give a shit' talk on this board, that feeling is shared by alot of people). Early season tournaments in CA, TX, FL cost alot of money. Baseball uses way more equipment than golf and wrestling, there's another cost. Would we have to build a baseball facility? Probably. Hire a grounds crew who will probably have to work overtime when it snows in June and make the field playable? Probably.

Golf is cheap. Only a handful of 'athletes' and one coach. If you're going to have a sport that doesn't make you any money, you might as well make it cheap. As was stated earlier, we need tennis to fulfill Title IX obligations. Tennis is obviously much cheaper than softball as well for the same reasons, with even less money brought in than baseball.
 
I'll also throw in 2 cents concerning the weather. Yes the pacific northwest isn't warm and sunny, but it is NOT cold. It is generally always mild and temperate with no sun and constant drizzle and consistently so. I've lived here for 3 years and have had to scrape my windows two or three times and have never brought out my winter coat.
 
Back to the golf thing, doesn't UW pay the City of Laramie for the Jacoby Golf Course?
I don't know the specifics about that at all.

And what exactly happened last year or the year before when the state rep from Baggs decided that the UW baseball project thing was a bad idea?
Wasn't the State and the University going to both put in quite a bit of money to see if UW could do baseball?
 
BeaverPoke said:
Back to the golf thing, doesn't UW pay the City of Laramie for the Jacoby Golf Course?
I don't know the specifics about that at all.

And what exactly happened last year or the year before when the state rep from Baggs decided that the UW baseball project thing was a bad idea?
Wasn't the State and the University going to both put in quite a bit of money to see if UW could do baseball?
Click to expand...

Jacoby is owned by UW. They generate revenue via greens fees from the general public (and students).
 
BackHarlowRoad said:
I'll also throw in 2 cents concerning the weather. Yes the pacific northwest isn't warm and sunny, but it is NOT cold. It is generally always mild and temperate with no sun and constant drizzle and consistently so. I've lived here for 3 years and have had to scrape my windows two or three times and have never brought out my winter coat.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Beav points out how Gonzaga and AFA didn't have first home game until mid-March. Colorado Springs isn't a long distance from Laramie, but the weather is noticeably warmer there. In Laramie, no administrator worth his salt would schedule a home game until early-April. That would mean (with a start date of Feb. 15 and MWC tourney on May 22) that you spend the first half of the season on the road. This is both expensive and inconvenient.
 
WestWYOPoke said:
BackHarlowRoad said:
I'll also throw in 2 cents concerning the weather. Yes the pacific northwest isn't warm and sunny, but it is NOT cold. It is generally always mild and temperate with no sun and constant drizzle and consistently so. I've lived here for 3 years and have had to scrape my windows two or three times and have never brought out my winter coat.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Beav points out how Gonzaga and AFA didn't have first home game until mid-March. Colorado Springs isn't a long distance from Laramie, but the weather is noticeably warmer there. In Laramie, no administrator worth his salt would schedule a home game until early-April. That would mean (with a start date of Feb. 15 and MWC tourney on May 22) that you spend the first half of the season on the road. This is both expensive and inconvenient.
Click to expand...

Since when are people such big pansies about playing in a little bit of cold? :cry:

To think that it is too cold to play until april is such a weak mentality.
:thumbdown:
 
A pitcher with numb fingers and metal bats in 0 degree weather in February? every hit would be like a bunt and every other pitch would be wild, it's got nothing to do with toughness. Baseball in bad weather just isn't baseball.
 
BackHarlowRoad said:
A pitcher with numb fingers and metal bats in 0 degree weather in February? every hit would be like a bunt and every other pitch would be wild, it's got nothing to do with toughness. Baseball in bad weather just isn't baseball.
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Again, start the season on the road. They won't be playing in February.
Mid to late March. Wyo isn't the only cold place in the friggin country.
But I get your point. We are all a bunch of pansies and should never do it. Too much crying. And there is no crying in baseball.

Baseball is what the players make of it. Bad weather, good weather, whatever, baseball is baseball.

Now I really hope that golf team brings in some wins and some money for the program! whoo!

University of Wyoming sports mentality is pathetic.
 
"University of Wyoming sports mentality is pathetic."

Could be true, but not because it knows baseball would be a money suck.
 
BackHarlowRoad said:
"University of Wyoming sports mentality is pathetic."

Could be true, but not because it knows baseball would be a money suck.
Click to expand...

Could be true or is true?
It is.

And yeah not having a baseball program and the shit tons of excuses that the athletic department and fans come up with are part of the problem.
2 MWC titles ever.
Over a decade ago.

Wyo is cheap.
Wyo's philosophy: Since we are so goddamn cheap we can't be competitive in anything that costs money, and we will keep things like golf and tennis because well we are cheap. And when there is talk about any other programs let's actually not really consider it just say it won't turn us a profit.

Barely a MWC school. Wyo has the minimum amount of sports for the MWC, and to get to that mark, has the cheapest sports possible.
I'm surprised we even have a wrestling program.
 
There's a difference between being cheap and being broke. You gotta make money to spend money.

If you're reeeeeaally serious about this, you should start a proposal right now to present to UW. Get out, do some surveys, figure out the logistics of building a team, do some research and make it happen. Griping to us won't get it done. It's like the guy who is always complaining about the Mayor's policies, but is never seen in City Hall doing something about it.
 
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