Burman Philosophy - Promoting within

[WyoVaquero]

Burman seems to have adopted the old Boise State, NDSU philosophy of just promoting from within. I would understand this if we had their type of success. If the right guy is the on staff then ok, promote, but the idea that he did not even conduct a search for a better candidate blows my mind. We just came off a 9-4 season, decent momentum with facilities, I think he could have gotten a good coach. Even if a coach only stays with us 4-6 years and moves on, I am ok with this as long as they leave the program in a good place, just like Joe Tiller did.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Promoting within should have worked. It appears we just promoted the wrong guy. The guy we promoted wasn’t from the ‘Bohl tree’ and he abandoned the Bohl pro style smash mouth philosophy.

 

[Outlaw Arthur Morgan]

The guy can talk a good talk until he loses. I guess it might be a good idea to watch a coaches demeanor after losses before promoting him. Probably should have brought in Vigen or someone out of the tree like OrediggerPoke pointed out above.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Almost like even Burman couldn't screw it up this bad unless there were "other" factors influencing his decision.
Nah, couldn't be...

 

[307bball]

After two games....I think most everybody can see that the football program has fumbled the transition away from Bohl badly. This is juxtaposed with a nearly uniformly optimistic preseason vibe around the program from fans and even media. The pre-season criticism of Sawvell (faint though it was), centered heavily on opinions they there were better options available and that the hiring process was pre-determined. Interestingly... The people making this critique were not taking the next step and a also predicting a competitive drop off.

My question.... Were there any indications or predictions out there that the decision to elevate Sawvell would go this badly? The discussions about the upcoming season were heavily positive with a sprinkling of people predicting a slight regression but definitely not this level of train wreck. What did we miss?? I'm trying to answer this without hind sight bias.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

If only we had someone hired that had time to deeply reflect on the position and had access to information necessary to make a wise selection. Someone whose job is to identify and hire successful coaches or at least coaches that can hold together a program for at least a year.

Nah, let's criticize the fan base who has limited access to necessary information because they didn't see a train wreck coming

 

[307bball]

Hopefully I'm wrong but I don't think this ends well. It's time for Burman to go.
@307bball

Granted I didn't think he'd screw it up this fast

I assume you were referring to this question in your response on the other thread. Yes...you did predict it would not "end well". I think what we are seeing goes well beyond that. Just based on watching what has happened since Koenning, I too didn't think it would end well but I figured it would not end well in the manner that Glenn's tenure didn't "end well", that is kind of where I was before the season...the debacle we are seeing is a far worse.

 

[307bball]

If only we had someone hired that had time to deeply reflect on the position and had access to information necessary to make a wise selection. Someone whose job is to identify and hire successful coaches or at least coaches that can hold together a program for at least a year.

Nah, let's criticize the fan base who has limited access to necessary information because they didn't see a train wreck coming

Not criticizing fan base here...just pointing out that there was not really a diversity of opinions before the season...from both fans and media. What did we miss?

 

[ragtimejoe1]

Not criticizing fan base here...just pointing out that there was not really a diversity of opinions before the season...from both fans and media. What did we miss?

I'd argue few coaching candidates would screw it up this badly. Vigen would have been the best approach.

What we underestimated was how important the system was to this group of players. Not knocking the players but it's obvious that's where their peak talent level is...operating in Bohl's system. PBJ should have damn sure knew that.

 

[307bball]

I'd argue few coaching candidates would screw it up this badly. Vigen would have been the best approach.

What we underestimated was how important the system was to this group of players. Not knocking the players but it's obvious that's where their peak talent level is...operating in Bohl's system. PBJ should have damn sure knew that.

I just think there is huge hindsight bias in a lot of criticism. If there were some (any?) voices in the wilderness warning of the oncoming meltdown then I would be far more critical. You criticized the process up and down .... fair enough. I took issue with that criticism even while I predicted a regression from the meager successes of the Bohl era. You and I continue to be at odds over the root of the difficulty of the situation but at least we did not drink the kool-aid so to speak. None the less...I'm still surprised by what I've seen. You seem surprised as well at least to the extent that you did not think it would be this bad.

As it is... this looks like an error...a huge one to be sure but not one that was trivially avoidable.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I just think there is huge hindsight bias in a lot of criticism. If there were some (any?) voices in the wilderness warning of the oncoming meltdown then I would be far more critical. You criticized the process up and down .... fair enough. I took issue with that criticism even while I predicted a regression from the meager successes of the Bohl era. You and I continue to be at odds over the root of the difficulty of the situation but at least we did not drink the kool-aid so to speak. None the less...I'm still surprised by what I've seen. You seem surprised as well at least to the extent that you did not think it would be this bad.

As it is... this looks like an error...a huge one to be sure but not one that was trivially avoidable.

Mistakes like this are more common when a rigorous search is not conducted to fully vet all available candidates by a committee of professionals whose job it is to avoid these mistakes.

It's not on PBJ. It's on Burman.

 

[TheRealUW]

Football is still a game dominated by one position...QB. The mistake most people made was assuming we had a good QB in Svoboda. This assumption wasn't completely unreasonable given Svoboda performed relatively well in his very first start on the road in Austin against an eventual playoff team. Needless to say, Svoboda has significantly underperformed expectations.

The media was not nearly as high on the Pokes mostly because they were not nearly as high on Svoboda. They saw a QB with mediocre stats in his only start and who wasn't highly recruited. Unfortunately, they were closer to the truth. In all honesty, I think Svoboda has actually managed to underperform even those lower expectations.

As QB play goes, so will the team. Svoboda has been atrocious, so we are 0-2 with a loss to FCS Idaho at home.

 

[307bball]

Football is still a game dominated by one position...QB. The mistake most people made was assuming we had a good QB in Svoboda. This assumption wasn't completely unreasonable given Svoboda performed relatively well in his very first start on the road in Austin against an eventual playoff team. Needless to say, Svoboda has significantly underperformed expectations.

The media was not nearly as high on the Pokes mostly because they were not nearly as high on Svoboda. They saw a QB with mediocre stats in his only start and who wasn't highly recruited. Unfortunately, they were closer to the truth. In all honesty, I think Svoboda has actually managed to underperform even those lower expectations.

As QB play goes, so will the team. Svoboda has been atrocious, so we are 0-2 with a loss to FCS Idaho at home.

This is a good explanation of what is going on right now in Laramie...There are probably other things going wrong as well but the abysmal play of Svoboda masks any other blemishes.

 

[307bball]

Mistakes like this are more common when a rigorous search is not conducted to fully vet all available candidates by a committee of professionals whose job it is to avoid these mistakes.

It's not on PBJ. It's on Burman.

I disagree that this is not on Sawvell...I definitely hold him responsible for not recognizing strengths and trying to shore up weaknesses. We might be seeing a Koenning level performance here.

Burman's responsibility was to come up with a Bohl-level or better replacement....so far, obvious fail. But that judgment comes after the benefit of seeing some performance that, before the season, was not predicted......at least if it was, I didn't see it.

 

[TheRealUW]

I disagree that this is not on Sawvell...I definitely hold him responsible for not recognizing strengths and trying to shore up weaknesses. We might be seeing a Koenning level performance here.

Burman's responsibility was to come up with a Bohl-level or better replacement....so far, obvious fail. But that judgment comes after the benefit of seeing some performance that, before the season, was not predicted......at least if it was, I didn't see it.

Burman clearly stated that the expectation was for Sawvel to "take the next step" when he hired him. Instead, we've seen a significant regression.

If this season goes as badly as I expect it to, Burman will really have no other choice but to get rid of Sawvel at the end of the year. The only plausible excuse would be "we don't have the funds to fire him".

 

[ragtimejoe1]

I disagree that this is not on Sawvell...I definitely hold him responsible for not recognizing strengths and trying to shore up weaknesses. We might be seeing a Koenning level performance here.

Burman's responsibility was to come up with a Bohl-level or better replacement....so far, obvious fail. But that judgment comes after the benefit of seeing some performance that, before the season, was not predicted......at least if it was, I didn't see it.

Not obvious to fans partly because of Burman's comments. If Burman is operating with the same info as fans and making decisions unilaterally based on that information, he should be fired on the spot.

He put someone in a spot that's way over their head. That's on Burman. PBJ is what PBJ is. He didn't just become a bad coach. He's just a bad fit for the position.

Happens when the hiring decision isn't based solely on the success of the program.

 

[307bball]

Not obvious to fans partly because of Burman's comments. If Burman is operating with the same info as fans and making decisions unilaterally based on that information, he should be fired on the spot.

He put someone in a spot that's way over their head. That's on Burman. PBJ is what PBJ is. He didn't just become a bad coach. He's just a bad fit for the position.

Happens when the hiring decision isn't based solely on the success of the program.

Yes...and to be fair...I'm positive that Burman has more info than us.

As we sit here today, the judgement of the Sawvell hire is decidedly negative. We can say all of the things you are saying because we can point to the evidence of a team that has looked pretty overmatched and unprepared.

My point is that nobody was saying these things before the season started. Not only that, but the few negative judgements that were being leveled did not include this bad of a start among the likely possibilities.

Finally, again, a flawed hiring process creates a higher likelihood of having a bad football program (because it's more likely to get the wrong guy)...it is not the primary cause of it. In this case, the attempt to create continuity was widely viewed positively and was considered the right approach. You said you didn't like the optics of what happened for reasons you have speculated about. You and I were both correct, directionally, in thinking that the successes that Bohl achieved were likely not going to be maintained ... but we got the magnitude wrong. This may work out to be the proverbial fan that the sh%^ finally hits though if this season goes the way it looks to be going. Others have pointed out that the best outcome is a conference championship with a 2 or less loss season....but the next best outcome would be a complete derailment and exposure of the AD and leaderships failings. It would almost be worse if the cowboy's had somehow gotten into the end zone and squeaked out a victory in that sense. A 6 win season followed by two or three seasons of diminishing success would be intolerable....at least if it's a complete train wreck, the pressure can be ratcheted up for change at the higher levels of administration.

 

[ragtimejoe1]

My point is that nobody was saying these things before the season started. Not only that, but the few negative judgements that were being leveled did not include this bad of a start among the likely possibilities.

Finally, again, a flawed hiring process creates a higher likelihood of having a bad football program (because it's more likely to get the wrong guy)...it is not the primary cause of it. In this case, the attempt to create continuity was widely viewed positively and was considered the right...

Almost every pre-season prediction is off in magnitude. We only have information PBJ and Burman provide. Remember practices are closed. Irrelevant imo.

For the second part, not everyone was on board with continuity hire and Polasek was the more "continuos" option on staff if continuity was the focus. He was just on the wrong side of the ball.

 

[LawPoke]

My complaint with Sawvel is that he made fairly dramatic shifts in the offensive scheme in a year when you had proven talent that fit a specific style of play. Maybe you make the shift to a no huddle, pass heavy offense when you have the Jimmy's and Joe's to play that style and when you don't have a returning starter-heavy team that has proven they can win in a grind-it-out scheme. I made my fears about the OC very evident - and since before the season.

To me, it was a mistake to take kids that patterned their game to a specific style and make them shift to an entirely different way of moving the ball. It not only negatively impacts the offensive production, but has put the defense in horrible predicaments (Idaho gained momentum after our center threw the ball to Bosler and we turned it over). Johnson was and will continue to be a blight on our offensive production...and the decision to alter what was working was singular Jay Sawvel's to make.

 

[OrediggerPoke]

Football is still a game dominated by one position...QB. The mistake most people made was assuming we had a good QB in Svoboda. This assumption wasn't completely unreasonable given Svoboda performed relatively well in his very first start on the road in Austin against an eventual playoff team. Needless to say, Svoboda has significantly underperformed expectations.

The media was not nearly as high on the Pokes mostly because they were not nearly as high on Svoboda. They saw a QB with mediocre stats in his only start and who wasn't highly recruited. Unfortunately, they were closer to the truth. In all honesty, I think Svoboda has actually managed to underperform even those lower expectations.

As QB play goes, so will the team. Svoboda has been atrocious, so we are 0-2 with a loss to FCS Idaho at home.

To point the finger at Svoboda is a gross over simplification IMO. Svoboda has played poorly no doubt. But even Josh Allen would struggle mightily with this team. The defense didn’t show up against ASU and looked lost in penetration and tackling. The O-line play has been nothing short of abysmal and is shocking in the regression under the new scheme.

If Svoboda was the main problem as being suggested, then I’d be a lot less concerned with this coaching staff and their ability to turn things around. But in one offseason’s time, every position group (other than punter) has showed significant regression and an inability to adjust to the scheme being pushed on them.