LanderPoke
Well-known member
No one is serious about success at UW. Fire everyone. Tired of worse than mediocrity
-
Hi Guest, want to participate in the discussions, keep track of read/unread posts and more? Create your free account and increase the benefits of your WyoNation.com experience today!
It's Monday and neither Burman or Sawvel are fired
- Thread starter LanderPoke
- Start date
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Yep. It's a choice despite what some claim.
I agree with this take and I hate it at the same time. There is an element of truth here that I don't think is very well understood. How you prioritize your resources matters. That is the "choice" that makes your statement correct. The powers that be do not have the same order of priorities that, to use an example, Boise State has in regards to athletics. This is demonstrated by Burman's position being so stably safe despite overall poor results competitively. The BSU top brass would not stand by and watch competitive results like Wyoming gets without taking action. The UW brass are "choosing" the positives that Burman has (I know, I know) over prioritizing the chance at competitive excellence.
The part about this take that I hate is that it comes with the implication that they are "choosing" to have the results that they are having and this just isn't the case. It's not clear to me, even if the house gets cleaned, that it would automatically bring about the results that we all want to see. As an example of this..look at a school like Nebraska...they have it all....tons of money, history, and an administration that is doing everything they can and yet, for some reason, they continue to be disappointing. Is that a choice they are making? .... I don't think so.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Yeah , except there's no question about the level of acceptance. NE makes it clear. That and NE is in the b1g. Much closer analogy would be UW with Utah, byu, TCU, and bsu.
The point of the Nebraska example is to show an institution that is not at a disadvantage when it comes to money, facilities, NIL,etc.... They also are explicit in that they value and hold their football program to a very high standard. Even given all that, there are heights of success that seem beyond their reach since their '90s heyday
In the case of Wyoming.... You can make the case that the top brass don't prioritize football success like the BSU's and Nebraska's of the world do. That type of priority results in the sort of minor league program with a school logo slapped on it. I'm actually kind ok with not prioritizing that. Unfortunately, it seems like the best you can achieve in the absence of that semi-pro mindset looks something like what Craig Bohl's program did.
rocket city poke
Well-known member
That's fine, then let's not pay Burman $550k a year and Sawvel $1.2 Million. Or have a budget of $51 million budget or have $80 million in stadium upgrades. These type of expenditures suggest we are trying to compete with SDSU, Boise, CSU etc. They are on par with every program in the MWC. If we are going to allow mediocre result then we should have mediocre funding levels and just move to the Big Sky.
This is the no-man's-land that UW and UW-like institutions find themselves in. For myself...I recoil at a future of Big Sky level competition. Is there a path towards a model that produces excellence in the absence of larger fan-bases and media dollars? I don't know.
The MWC as it has stood has fractured. People have speculated that in five years we'll all be back together anyways...I actually don't see that happening. A split is coming to CFB in the future but there will be more tiers than just two. For teams that have been in our competetive orbit for the last 20 or so years...you have the top tier that is obviously leaving us behind. This would be programs like TCU, BYU, UTAH and probably Boise St. The level below that is large and contains programs that are large or at least in the conversation when it comes to "attractive" conference realignment parters.....but have not had the success of that top tier...This is where UNLV, Fresno, Utah st, CSU live....probably lots more here. After that you have the Wyoming's, UNM's, UTEP's, etc.... I don't think anybody from a perceived higher tier is going to do any favors for anybody lower.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Rockey City is 100% correct. Quit fleecing taxpayers and students or get winning. The state/students/university put about 20-25 mill into athletics. Remove that and cost of attendance for every undergrad could decrease by a total of about 10k for 4 years. What serves the university mission more?
That doesn't even consider all the facilities. If Burman wants his 500k, he can earn it through athletic department profits without public money.
That is the billion dollar question. I think the sentiment is that without an outsized "subsidy" from the state...we will not be competitive. I like being competitive but if it takes the public purse to do it....people get a vote on that and I'm ok with there being a diversity of opinion here. If you are a money printing machine like the big dogs...great. If you are Wyoming and just always paying to be at the table and get kicked around...well...that's not great.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
We can be competitive with the right hire(s). I have my belief as to what happened and it pisses me off to no end that, if I'm correct, the taxpayers have been bamboozled and the program tanked.
There is no deep rooted theory here or some mystical power keeping us down. There were errors that need corrected now. That isn't aspirations for some unattainable goal. It is correcting a wrong.
Failing to address this highlights accepting of mediocrity. It really is that simple. Even if you don't believe the motives behind the hires, it is clear this is a disaster. We don't need to be bsu but we damn sure don't need to accept this either.
Well...obviously the wrong guy was hired. There are a million pathways to hiring the wrong guy. You have your theory ... and whether it's true or not...the fact remains that Jay Sawvell is not fit for purpose no matter how he was hired. Again..if he's undefeated right now nobody, including you, is complaining. The problem is he's a bad coach.
Back to the topic at hand though...The failings of the past have happened and can't be changed. We are in a position where the cost to be with the big boys is rising faster than our ability to generate revenue. Maybe somebody besides Burman could have crafted a different reality but that is academic now. No matter who runs the show from today forward has to contend with the reality that we are among the institutions that got left behind over and over again as the bar kept lowering.
The quickest path to Wyoming joining the Big Sky is to cut the funding to the AD. If that's the goal, then by all means...shut down state money going to athletics.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Running with the big boys narrative and not being able to afford the buyout are 2 concepts supporting a culture of mediocrity.
UW should and has the resources to compete with everyone in the mwc sans bsu in football. That is damn sure true in the next version of the mwc. There isn't 1 person advocating trying to run with Ohio State.
If we can't run with the MWC current and especially the next MWC, then we belong in the Big Sky or drop athletics to provide tuition relief.
Choosing to not buyout Sawvell definitely says something about the priorities. I hope they do it but i'm not optimistic. Even with that being the case...there is no way anybody is happy about his performance. Even the implication that somehow the outcomes Sawvell and Burman are achieving are by design is ludicrous.
You are not the only one who makes statements that we have the resources and can and should compete. These statements are made over and over. Is there a point at which doubting that is not considered heresy? You have been clear that you don't expect to be as good as BSU...Where does that leave us? What is the successful model for "medium" success? During the Roach years we were top-25 or top-25 adjacent....is that out of reach?...and, if so, what are we doing?
I'm asking these questions because find the scapegoat "accepting mediocrity" excuse as completely non-explanatory. If tomorrow they were all replaced by the ideal Athletic Director, Coach, BOT, and Pres.....you still have the problems of small fan-base and media antipathy towards the program in general that i'm not sure can be overcome.
For myself...I hope we get new blood at all these levels. If nothing else...just to settle this.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Who said PBJ and Burman orchestrated this or want this? Do they hate losing so much that they're willing to change or do they hate change so much they're willing to lose. WYO is the latter. That's accepting mediocrity as the preferred choice to doing things to win.
Bohl established what our baseline should be. There will be a few worse years on occasion but post-Bohl should have built on that baseline and had a few better years.
Make no mistake, we'll go through coaches and ADs seeking what we want but that is preferred to settling for the shitshow we have.
I largely agree with this except for the binary choice you lay out in the beginning...is success in college athletics not a function of skill and ability? The way you are laying this out it seems like it depends mostly on how much a coach or AD "wants" it. What separates Nick Saban from Sawvell? I actually believe it is largely talent and ability...not somebody hating losing more than somebody else.
For myself...I don't think they (Sawvell and Burman) have what it takes. I think they desire success greatly but don't have the ability to bring it to life.
Everything else you said I completely agree with. The stability and success (modest though it was) that Bohl achieved should be the expectation....and we should hire and fire as fast as we can until we find the right people.
Bear Claw
Well-known member
I don’t see how Wyoming ponies up $3.5M to get out of Sawvel’s contract. One would have to think that the football attendance for the next few seasons will be less and less. It will have to be substantial to reach the tipping point where less incoming revenue exceeds money lost up front. It was a horrible contract that Burman should have to answer to and be relieved of his duties because of it. I know I won’t be attending another game with high priced tickets and a subpar team to show for it.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
If we can't afford roughly 1 mill/year with Bohl's salary savings and pending conference payments, we might as well go to the Big Sky or lower.
ragtimejoe1
Well-known member
Accepting of mediocrity at UW is accepting that Burman and PBJ are adequate.
If I'm running a business and my employees put out a crap product. When I fail to do anything other than sell that crap product, then I accept that crap product no matter what I say or feel like.
Your conviction that the single variable of "accepting mediocrity" is to blame for everything blinds you to any nuance or confounding factors. I guess I assume that you are like me in that you don't possess privileged inside information about the inner workings of the BoT or the UW presidents office but maybe that is my mistake. From the outside looking in, it looks like a lot of well meaning and under qualified people that are having mediocrity thrust upon them. That is different than "accepting" it.
The paths forward for UW athletics are not as clear as you make them out to be. As outsiders (assuming you are an outsider), we get the privilege of never having our ideas tested. All your ideas about how to use funds to buy out contracts and hire new guys that are highly likely to turn things around are so seductively easy to write on a message board aren't they? In general, they are too simplistic to ever be implemented and because they won't be implemented you will always be able to say "see how stupid everybody is?.. If only they would listen to me!".
Anyways... Part of me hopes you are a mad genius who gets put in charge and then you can bring Wyoming to the greatness that the previous administration has kept us from achieving. I would love that!
