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Interestingly timed article. 4 years in and Linder just now asks the question of whether he and staff should be involved in getting students to games?
Jeff and the entire athletic department would be well served to understand that we all have a lot more options to spend our hard-earned dollar these days. Between the cost of tickets, parking, fuel, food and, for some, a hotel room, the product on the floor had better be really good. It isn't - and hasn't been. The overall entertainment value surrounding a Wyoming basketball game is meh. Most simply don't care about a Wyoming basketball game these days.
And, sure, we are 2 games out of first place...but I will eat my hat for anyone that truly believes we are actually in the hunt for a title. We are about to lose a lot of games - and everyone knows it. We haven't been close to competitive against the top of the conference - with the exception of Nevada. I thought CSU was in that tier when we miraculously came back (fun, but still a miracle) to beat them, but they are mid.
I've always had a hard time when the finger of blame points to the fans. No entertainment product "deserves" an audience. It must be earned. If people don't want to come and watch a concert, comedian, or athletic event, it's not the people's fault. I include student's and Laramie residents in this...There is a threshold for any product, below which, the juice is not worth the squeeze so to speak. For students and Laramie locals, it's not a high bar but the bar exists. Wyoming Basketball is below that bar. That is not the fault of locals and students. Linder absolutely should do more rah rah outreach like past popular coaches have done, but no amount of marketing is going to do much if they don't start being fun to watch. I love me some Joe Glenn for his connection w/fans, but even that wasn't enough to overcome getting beat all the time.
Wyoming football has not made noise as far as rankings or conference championships for a very long time yet the home games have been incredibly well attended.....all they do is win at home. If you get bad enough to not only lose at home a lot but do it in a very inept fashion...you get well deserved apathy from everybody....including locals and students.
I feel like attendance has never recovered ever since the (botched?) reconfiguration of the AA. First, it seems like it's impossible to get seats in the lower level for normal fans. I've heard this is because these are all bought up but not used. Is that true? Why wasn't this the case before the reconfiguration?
Second, the students were moved to the end of the court, which are much worse seats. Look at old videos of the Bailey, etc. days and you'll see the students standing mid-court and at times almost blocking the camera view of the court. Much better atmosphere. This would be like if they moved the student section in football from lower level middle like it is today, to top level in the corners. I bet student attendance would suffer in that scenario too.
Interestingly timed article. 4 years in and Linder just now asks the question of whether he and staff should be involved in getting students to games?
Jeff and the entire athletic department would be well served to understand that we all have a lot more options to spend our hard-earned dollar these days. Between the cost of tickets, parking, fuel, food and, for some, a hotel room, the product on the floor had better be really good. It isn't - and hasn't been. The overall entertainment value surrounding a Wyoming basketball game is meh. Most simply don't care about a Wyoming basketball game these days.
And, sure, we are 2 games out of first place...but I will eat my hat for anyone that truly believes we are actually in the hunt for a title. We are about to lose a lot of games - and everyone knows it. We haven't been close to competitive against the top of the conference - with the exception of Nevada. I thought CSU was in that tier when we miraculously came back (fun, but still a miracle) to beat them, but they are mid.
I agree that realistically this team isn’t going to win many remaining games.
But I’m a bit confused. You thought CSU was a top tier team when we beat them but believe that they are a mid team now? They haven’t lost since we beat them, including wins over Boise and SDSU.
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:07 am
I've always had a hard time when the finger of blame points to the fans. No entertainment product "deserves" an audience. It must be earned. If people don't want to come and watch a concert, comedian, or athletic event, it's not the people's fault. I include student's and Laramie residents in this...There is a threshold for any product, below which, the juice is not worth the squeeze so to speak. For students and Laramie locals, it's not a high bar but the bar exists. Wyoming Basketball is below that bar. That is not the fault of locals and students. Linder absolutely should do more rah rah outreach like past popular coaches have done, but no amount of marketing is going to do much if they don't start being fun to watch. I love me some Joe Glenn for his connection w/fans, but even that wasn't enough to overcome getting beat all the time.
Wyoming football has not made noise as far as rankings or conference championships for a very long time yet the home games have been incredibly well attended.....all they do is win at home. If you get bad enough to not only lose at home a lot but do it in a very inept fashion...you get well deserved apathy from everybody....including locals and students.
Wyoming volleyball didn’t even make the MWC tournament this year . That place was full every match and well attended by students.
I think lack of attendance comes from a boring style of play. 4 out along the 3 point line while somebody backs their defender down and shoots a fadeaway. I can watch that at the local rec center
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:07 am
I've always had a hard time when the finger of blame points to the fans. No entertainment product "deserves" an audience. It must be earned. If people don't want to come and watch a concert, comedian, or athletic event, it's not the people's fault. I include student's and Laramie residents in this...There is a threshold for any product, below which, the juice is not worth the squeeze so to speak. For students and Laramie locals, it's not a high bar but the bar exists. Wyoming Basketball is below that bar. That is not the fault of locals and students. Linder absolutely should do more rah rah outreach like past popular coaches have done, but no amount of marketing is going to do much if they don't start being fun to watch. I love me some Joe Glenn for his connection w/fans, but even that wasn't enough to overcome getting beat all the time.
Wyoming football has not made noise as far as rankings or conference championships for a very long time yet the home games have been incredibly well attended.....all they do is win at home. If you get bad enough to not only lose at home a lot but do it in a very inept fashion...you get well deserved apathy from everybody....including locals and students.
Wyoming volleyball didn’t even make the MWC tournament this year . That place was full every match and well attended by students.
Great example....they went 11-4 at home this year. What if they had gone 4-11?
Fez wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 9:50 am
I think lack of attendance comes from a boring style of play. 4 out along the 3 point line while somebody backs their defender down and shoots a fadeaway. I can watch that at the local rec center
Itsux2beaewe wrote: ↑Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:04 pm
Linders arrogance kind of wreaks……..
Linder would be well served to change his approach. He isn’t going to garner support with fans, if he doesn’t admit he’s a huge part of the problem, and start persuading versus chastising to get butts in the seats.
Wyoming volleyball didn’t even make the MWC tournament this year . That place was full every match and well attended by students.
Great example....they went 11-4 at home this year. What if they had gone 4-11?
Probably still would have been a decent turnout.
But I’m still not following - Wyoming is 8-2 at home this year in Men’s basketball. The problem isn’t inability to win home games, it is zero effort to get students there and a coach that criticizes students for not showing up rather than thanking students for their support and going out and greeting them, handing out t-shirts on campus, etc.
Honestly, the more I read of Linder’s quotes on student attendance and the more I watch his demeanor on the bench, the more I am in the camp of moving on from him. Sure, he might be considered a basketball ‘guru’ but Dave Christensen was considered an ‘offensive guru’ and getting rid of him and his attitude and arrogance was one of the best decisions Wyoming ever made.
NIL doesn’t explain losing every single player from last years team but Wenzel (who had no transfers remaining) and Powell. They all can’t be ‘selfish’ guys or poor players.
Interestingly timed article. 4 years in and Linder just now asks the question of whether he and staff should be involved in getting students to games?
Jeff and the entire athletic department would be well served to understand that we all have a lot more options to spend our hard-earned dollar these days. Between the cost of tickets, parking, fuel, food and, for some, a hotel room, the product on the floor had better be really good. It isn't - and hasn't been. The overall entertainment value surrounding a Wyoming basketball game is meh. Most simply don't care about a Wyoming basketball game these days.
And, sure, we are 2 games out of first place...but I will eat my hat for anyone that truly believes we are actually in the hunt for a title. We are about to lose a lot of games - and everyone knows it. We haven't been close to competitive against the top of the conference - with the exception of Nevada. I thought CSU was in that tier when we miraculously came back (fun, but still a miracle) to beat them, but they are mid.
CSewe is pretty good. I’ll go with - The Pokes beat a really good team.
Great example....they went 11-4 at home this year. What if they had gone 4-11?
Probably still would have been a decent turnout.
But I’m still not following - Wyoming is 8-2 at home this year in Men’s basketball. The problem isn’t inability to win home games, it is zero effort to get students there and a coach that criticizes students for not showing up rather than thanking students for their support and going out and greeting them, handing out t-shirts on campus, etc.
I see what you are saying...and yes...I do think the coach's demeanor is hurting attendance. I think it may not be just about home wins perhaps. Even in years where we had relatively good basketball attendance...the non-conference slate is generally pretty poorly attended. Then once conference play is on, if we are competitive, the dome gets going. But we are not competitive.
Seems the AA reseating debacle isn't gaining much attention in this thread for some reason. That was a complete disaster. Something needs to change, as the lower bowl looks pathetic most of the time, if not all of the time - empty seats everywhere. For instance, why doesn't UW propose - if you are not using your tickets (either yourself, or selling / giving them away) 80% of the season (as monitored at the door) you stand to lose them? They probably think revenue will really decrease if they do something like that. Then again they (Burman) f-word it up, so he should be on the hook to make it right.
Do something FFS UW, you caused this mess all the way around, now is time to dig out and stop pointing fingers. Own it. Fix it. You are paid to do so.
McPeachy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:30 pm
Seems the AA reseating debacle isn't gaining much attention in this thread for some reason. That was a complete disaster. Something needs to change, as the lower bowl looks pathetic most of the time, if not all of the time - empty seats everywhere. For instance, why doesn't UW propose - if you are not using your tickets (either yourself, or selling / giving them away) 80% of the season (as monitored at the door) you stand to lose them? They probably think revenue will really decrease if they do something like that. Then again they (Burman) f-word it up, so he should be on the hook to make it right.
Do something FFS UW, you caused this mess all the way around, now is time to dig out and stop pointing fingers. Own it. Fix it. You are paid to do so.
You can’t alienate your donors either. I’ve given my opinion multiple times on here that it would be so simple to create an email system asking if the season ticket holder plans to attend and if not whether they would donate the tickets so that the university could donate to schools, boys & girls club and families (a simple solution that builds a fanbase). Administration has shown to be incompetent here because we are going on a decade of the issue without it being addressed.
The student attendance issue is separate, and, to me falls equally on Linder and staff and the administration.
McPeachy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:30 pm
Seems the AA reseating debacle isn't gaining much attention in this thread for some reason. That was a complete disaster. Something needs to change, as the lower bowl looks pathetic most of the time, if not all of the time - empty seats everywhere. For instance, why doesn't UW propose - if you are not using your tickets (either yourself, or selling / giving them away) 80% of the season (as monitored at the door) you stand to lose them? They probably think revenue will really decrease if they do something like that. Then again they (Burman) f-word it up, so he should be on the hook to make it right.
Do something FFS UW, you caused this mess all the way around, now is time to dig out and stop pointing fingers. Own it. Fix it. You are paid to do so.
You can’t alienate your donors either. I’ve given my opinion multiple times on here that it would be so simple to create an email system asking if the season ticket holder plans to attend and if not whether they would donate the tickets so that the university could donate to schools, boys & girls club and families (a simple solution that builds a fanbase). Administration has shown to be incompetent here because we are going on a decade of the issue without it being addressed.
The student attendance issue is separate, and, to me falls equally on Linder and staff and the administration.
Great idea. Once folks who go on a donated ticket experience a game day experience likely attend more games.
cowpokeguy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:24 am
I feel like attendance has never recovered ever since the (botched?) reconfiguration of the AA. First, it seems like it's impossible to get seats in the lower level for normal fans. I've heard this is because these are all bought up but not used. Is that true? Why wasn't this the case before the reconfiguration?
Second, the students were moved to the end of the court, which are much worse seats. Look at old videos of the Bailey, etc. days and you'll see the students standing mid-court and at times almost blocking the camera view of the court. Much better atmosphere. This would be like if they moved the student section in football from lower level middle like it is today, to top level in the corners. I bet student attendance would suffer in that scenario too.
It does suck at the AA anymore for student attendance, I still think the location of Wyoming's Student Section is the BEST in the nation at War Memorial, and very strategic in helping our guys win, hence I'm 53 years old 31 years removed from being a student and i STILL sit there when i go....it's what I want to do until I physically can't!!! It's prime real estate and im sure UW would rather have $100 ticketing in those seats! Where else in America can u come to a cfb game 1 hour prior and sit on or near the 50 12-24 rows up....unheard of elsewhere. It's why I still love my Pokes! Cmon Pokes Beat them pesky Aggies tonite. Hope some Laramie fans help out...I'm working so sorry i can't.., the AA isn't nearly as much fun as it used to be
307bball wrote: ↑Tue Feb 13, 2024 8:07 am
I've always had a hard time when the finger of blame points to the fans. No entertainment product "deserves" an audience. It must be earned. If people don't want to come and watch a concert, comedian, or athletic event, it's not the people's fault. I include student's and Laramie residents in this...There is a threshold for any product, below which, the juice is not worth the squeeze so to speak. For students and Laramie locals, it's not a high bar but the bar exists. Wyoming Basketball is below that bar. That is not the fault of locals and students. Linder absolutely should do more rah rah outreach like past popular coaches have done, but no amount of marketing is going to do much if they don't start being fun to watch. I love me some Joe Glenn for his connection w/fans, but even that wasn't enough to overcome getting beat all the time.
Wyoming football has not made noise as far as rankings or conference championships for a very long time yet the home games have been incredibly well attended.....all they do is win at home. If you get bad enough to not only lose at home a lot but do it in a very inept fashion...you get well deserved apathy from everybody....including locals and students.
Wyoming volleyball didn’t even make the MWC tournament this year . That place was full every match and well attended by students.
They blew a lead against SDSU. I think they are mid. Smart people can disagree.
McPeachy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 14, 2024 4:30 pm
Seems the AA reseating debacle isn't gaining much attention in this thread for some reason. That was a complete disaster. Something needs to change, as the lower bowl looks pathetic most of the time, if not all of the time - empty seats everywhere. For instance, why doesn't UW propose - if you are not using your tickets (either yourself, or selling / giving them away) 80% of the season (as monitored at the door) you stand to lose them? They probably think revenue will really decrease if they do something like that. Then again they (Burman) f-word it up, so he should be on the hook to make it right.
Do something FFS UW, you caused this mess all the way around, now is time to dig out and stop pointing fingers. Own it. Fix it. You are paid to do so.
You can’t alienate your donors either. I’ve given my opinion multiple times on here that it would be so simple to create an email system asking if the season ticket holder plans to attend and if not whether they would donate the tickets so that the university could donate to schools, boys & girls club and families (a simple solution that builds a fanbase). Administration has shown to be incompetent here because we are going on a decade of the issue without it being addressed.
I remember discussing this with you (and others) before, and I agree - how simple would it be do implement something like that. It puts butts in seats, and creates new fans.
Why not massively discount new season tickets to residents within 100 miles? Try something, anything to breathe new life into this program. Children get in free. Anything to entice people to set foot into the building
