Thorburn Interview With Burman: details on hiring Sawvell, his contract, vision for the future.

[ragtimejoe1]

If he did great, we'll win a NC and he'll be immortal, lol.

For the last part, yes imo. Bohl did his job which means that level of success is attainable within our system. It's Burman's job to now make the right decisions and build upon that even if somewhat incremental. The wheels would be unlikely to fall off in the next few years if Bohl were here which means they shouldn't fall off with Burman's next decisions.

Ok....getting some clarity now....I think I agree on a bad AD decision having a very negative effect almost every time. I think where I get off the bus is, I do not think it works the other way. Maybe if you are the Notre Dame AD skies the limit, but AD's at average G5 programs are constrained in soooo many ways that it's unrealistic to point to the lack of success and lay that wholly at the feet of the AD. Disasters? sure...lack of success is a little more murky. Does that make sense?

Here's how I look at it. 6 - 7 wins, he probably made the decision he wanted to make to sustain. If that is satisfactory is up to the eye of the beholder. 8+ wins, he likely made a good to really good decision.

5 wins? I could be convinced that he made the decision he was targeting. Doesn't look good but probably need 1 more year.

< 5 wins means the whole process was bullsh.i.t. Burman, staff, and coaches need to go.

[307bball]

Ok....getting some clarity now....I think I agree on a bad AD decision having a very negative effect almost every time. I think where I get off the bus is, I do not think it works the other way. Maybe if you are the Notre Dame AD skies the limit, but AD's at average G5 programs are constrained in soooo many ways that it's unrealistic to point to the lack of success and lay that wholly at the feet of the AD. Disasters? sure...lack of success is a little more murky. Does that make sense?

Here's how I look at it. 6 - 7 wins, he probably made the decision he wanted to make to sustain. If that is satisfactory is up to the eye of the beholder. 8+ wins, he likely made a good to really good decision.

5 wins? I could be convinced that he made the decision he was targeting. Doesn't look good but probably need 1 more year.

< 5 wins means the whole process was bullsh.i.t. Burman, staff, and coaches need to go.

Hmmmm well.... Hire 'em and fire 'em right? I already told you I'm not against it. But.... Seems unlikely to be a better strategy than what Bohl/Burman accomplished... As mediocre as it was.

[ragtimejoe1]

Here's how I look at it. 6 - 7 wins, he probably made the decision he wanted to make to sustain. If that is satisfactory is up to the eye of the beholder. 8+ wins, he likely made a good to really good decision.

5 wins? I could be convinced that he made the decision he was targeting. Doesn't look good but probably need 1 more year.

< 5 wins means the whole process was bullsh.i.t. Burman, staff, and coaches need to go.

Hmmmm well.... Hire 'em and fire 'em right? I already told you I'm not against it. But.... Seems unlikely to be a better strategy than what Bohl/Burman accomplished... As mediocre as it was.

If this hire and process is what he wanted, then it will accomplish what Bohl/Burman did. That's obviously not hire and fire.

If he made a poor choice and the wheels fall off, then fire staff/reassign Burman. The new ad and staff may be better or worse.

[307bball]

Hmmmm well.... Hire 'em and fire 'em right? I already told you I'm not against it. But.... Seems unlikely to be a better strategy than what Bohl/Burman accomplished... As mediocre as it was.

If this hire and process is what he wanted, then it will accomplish what Bohl/Burman did. That's obviously not hire and fire.

If he made a poor choice and the wheels fall off, then fire staff/reassign Burman. The new ad and staff may be better or worse.

If this process is everything Burman wants...i'm pretty sure we are hoisting a trophy next year.

Nonetheless...I'm not really commenting on Burman's mindset except to the extent he has offered a window into it. I'm talking about the process and approach you are putting forth when I say "Hire 'em and fire 'em". Don't perform? You are out ... Don't want to hear or care about the reasons...those are just excuses. Is it the HC? AD? President?....keep shuffling baby.... Not only that but we should increase the amount we pay for these positions because high pay at those positions correlates strongly with lots of wins, and high pay will attract higher talent individuals. Are you for that or not? I kind of want to see it. I don't think it's going to get us where we want but might as well go for it. I don't think it will happen for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with complacency or settling for mediocrity.

Elevate Sawvell to HC = Hire, Sawvell doesn't make progress leads to terminating him as HC = Fire
Burman choses and enters into a contract with a HC = Hire, Burmans Choice not meeting some metric leads to Burman's employment being terminated = Fire

The less time that elapses between the hire event and the fire event, the closer I perceive these process to be to what you would like to see. Would that be correct?

[ragtimejoe1]

If this hire and process is what he wanted, then it will accomplish what Bohl/Burman did. That's obviously not hire and fire.

If he made a poor choice and the wheels fall off, then fire staff/reassign Burman. The new ad and staff may be better or worse.

If this process is everything Burman wants...i'm pretty sure we are hoisting a trophy next year.

Nonetheless...I'm not really commenting on Burman's mindset except to the extent he has offered a window into it. I'm talking about the process and approach you are putting forth when I say "Hire 'em and fire 'em". Don't perform? You are out ... Don't want to hear or care about the reasons...those are just excuses. Is it the HC? AD? President?....keep shuffling baby.... Not only that but we should increase the amount we pay for these positions because high pay at those positions correlates strongly with lots of wins, and high pay will attract higher talent individuals. Are you for that or not? I kind of want to see it. I don't think it's going to get us where we want but might as well go for it. I don't think it will happen for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with complacency or settling for mediocrity.

Elevate Sawvell to HC = Hire, Sawvell doesn't make progress leads to terminating him as HC = Fire
Burman choses and enters into a contract with a HC = Hire, Burmans Choice not meeting some metric leads to Burman's employment being terminated = Fire

The less time that elapses between the hire event and the fire event, the closer I perceive these process to be to what you would like to see. Would that be correct?

I would have very much liked to keep Bohl's salary level AND conduct a national search. For a coach with no hc experience, we overspent, imo.

I get it. You think the systemic and/or external issues are hamstringing Burman and/or the hc. Maybe that's true and maybe it's not. I don't think it is. You do. Difference of opinion.

I don't know that we can build a bsu-like situation but I definitely think we can be better than last place in the mwc for championships. All I'm saying that AT THIS POINT, Burman's job should be tied to Sawvell and Sawvell should be on a pretty short leash unless he's pretty successful. If he fails, there simply aren't compelling arguments to stick with him or Burman, in my opinion which is different than yours.

[307bball]

If this process is everything Burman wants...i'm pretty sure we are hoisting a trophy next year.

Nonetheless...I'm not really commenting on Burman's mindset except to the extent he has offered a window into it. I'm talking about the process and approach you are putting forth when I say "Hire 'em and fire 'em". Don't perform? You are out ... Don't want to hear or care about the reasons...those are just excuses. Is it the HC? AD? President?....keep shuffling baby.... Not only that but we should increase the amount we pay for these positions because high pay at those positions correlates strongly with lots of wins, and high pay will attract higher talent individuals. Are you for that or not? I kind of want to see it. I don't think it's going to get us where we want but might as well go for it. I don't think it will happen for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with complacency or settling for mediocrity.

Elevate Sawvell to HC = Hire, Sawvell doesn't make progress leads to terminating him as HC = Fire
Burman choses and enters into a contract with a HC = Hire, Burmans Choice not meeting some metric leads to Burman's employment being terminated = Fire

The less time that elapses between the hire event and the fire event, the closer I perceive these process to be to what you would like to see. Would that be correct?

I would have very much liked to keep Bohl's salary level AND conduct a national search. For a coach with no hc experience, we overspent, imo.

I get it. You think the systemic and/or external issues are hamstringing Burman and/or the hc. Maybe that's true and maybe it's not. I don't think it is. You do. Difference of opinion.

I don't know that we can build a bsu-like situation but I definitely think we can be better than last place in the mwc for championships. All I'm saying that AT THIS POINT, Burman's job should be tied to Sawvell and Sawvell should be on a pretty short leash unless he's pretty successful. If he fails, there simply aren't compelling arguments to stick with him or Burman, in my opinion which is different than yours.

Ah...I see. Well, I do have a difference of opinion with you but it's not because I endorse Burman. I think the relevance of the AD keeps us from being abjectly terrible but I don't believe the Wyoming's AD is primarily at fault for not being a BSU level (or close) program.

You said the following on a topic earlier this season:

A LOT also depends on realignment. If we end up with bsu, Fresno. osu, and wsu, the chances of finding someone to semi-consistently challenge that group will decrease. If we end up with a bunch of also rans, Bohl will likely be able to achieve the level of success you are asking for. Other coaching options probably could too.

I'm just saying the past quarter century says odds of finding someone who will do better than Bohl are smaller than finding someone who will do worse. At this point, without a major university overhaul, I don't care if a change is made or not.

It seems like, to you, the systemic or external reasons that Wyoming's HC would fail are actually relevant...but you don't think the athletic director at Wyoming or the University itself has systemic or external factors that would hinder ability to be excellent and are out of their control? Would you say the same of say...The University of Idaho? or UNM?

[ragtimejoe1]

I would have very much liked to keep Bohl's salary level AND conduct a national search. For a coach with no hc experience, we overspent, imo.

I get it. You think the systemic and/or external issues are hamstringing Burman and/or the hc. Maybe that's true and maybe it's not. I don't think it is. You do. Difference of opinion.

I don't know that we can build a bsu-like situation but I definitely think we can be better than last place in the mwc for championships. All I'm saying that AT THIS POINT, Burman's job should be tied to Sawvell and Sawvell should be on a pretty short leash unless he's pretty successful. If he fails, there simply aren't compelling arguments to stick with him or Burman, in my opinion which is different than yours.

Ah...I see. Well, I do have a difference of opinion with you but it's not because I endorse Burman. I think the relevance of the AD keeps us from being abjectly terrible but I don't believe the Wyoming's AD is primarily at fault for not being a BSU level (or close) program.

You said the following on a topic earlier this season:

A LOT also depends on realignment. If we end up with bsu, Fresno. osu, and wsu, the chances of finding someone to semi-consistently challenge that group will decrease. If we end up with a bunch of also rans, Bohl will likely be able to achieve the level of success you are asking for. Other coaching options probably could too.

I'm just saying the past quarter century says odds of finding someone who will do better than Bohl are smaller than finding someone who will do worse. At this point, without a major university overhaul, I don't care if a change is made or not.

It seems like, to you, the systemic or external reasons that Wyoming's HC would fail are actually relevant...but you don't think the athletic director at Wyoming or the University itself has systemic or external factors that would hinder ability to be excellent and are out of their control? Would you say the same of say...The University of Idaho? or UNM?

Bohl is gone and Burman has had 17 years. I think it's fine to tie him to this hire. Replacing the ad and hc (if he fails) makes sense now. There would be more chance of reward than risk at that point. With Bohl, there was a greater risk than chance at reward.

Like i said. We just disagree.

[307bball]

Ah...I see. Well, I do have a difference of opinion with you but it's not because I endorse Burman. I think the relevance of the AD keeps us from being abjectly terrible but I don't believe the Wyoming's AD is primarily at fault for not being a BSU level (or close) program.

You said the following on a topic earlier this season:


It seems like, to you, the systemic or external reasons that Wyoming's HC would fail are actually relevant...but you don't think the athletic director at Wyoming or the University itself has systemic or external factors that would hinder ability to be excellent and are out of their control? Would you say the same of say...The University of Idaho? or UNM?

Bohl is gone and Burman has had 17 years. I think it's fine to tie him to this hire. Replacing the ad and hc (if he fails) makes sense now. There would be more chance of reward than risk at that point. With Bohl, there was a greater risk than chance at reward.

Like i said. We just disagree.

I too think it's fine to tie him to this hire.... Doesn't mean it will actually happen or that the higher ups share that opinion.....or that it will get better if they do fire him.

Can you confirm that what I wrote about external factors limiting HC success or AD success maps on to what you believe? And if so, what about institutions that have actually had less historical success that us?