Conference musical chairs

[WYO1016]

No. Never gonna happen. Why? The US military is acutely aware of how geography works. West Point and Annapolis are 260 miles apart. Colorado Springs and Annapolis are roughly 1700 miles apart. Football is not the only sport that is played. You also have to account for:

baseball
men's and women's basketball
men's and women's boxing
men's and women's cross country
men's and women's fencing
golf
men's and women's gymnastics
ice hockey
lacrosse
men's and women's rifle
men's and women's soccer
men's and women's swimming and diving
men's and women's tennis
men's and women's track and field
wrestling
volleyball
spirit.

Keep in mind that Army is joining football only.

Air Force would likely have an option of the Missouri Valley conference to park its Olympic sports if it chose to join the American for football. Air Force will be Big 12 in wrestling regardless of any moves. I don’t think AF will leave the MWC, but its Olympics are probably a better competitive fit in the Missouri Valley.

Again, geography would be an issue with the MVC. In this scenario the most logical place for Air Force to park their other sports would be the Big Sky. However, we'll never have to worry about where Air Force puts their sports because they ain't leaving.

[Poke in New England]

Army to the AAC. Could AF be next? It would put all the military service academies in the same conference.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... 24-season/

Air Force has previously thrown dirt on this speculation.

AFA plays all the service academies every year in all the major sports anyway. No need for them to be in the same conference really.

[OrediggerPoke]

Keep in mind that Army is joining football only.

Air Force would likely have an option of the Missouri Valley conference to park its Olympic sports if it chose to join the American for football. Air Force will be Big 12 in wrestling regardless of any moves. I don’t think AF will leave the MWC, but its Olympics are probably a better competitive fit in the Missouri Valley.

Again, geography would be an issue with the MVC. In this scenario the most logical place for Air Force to park their other sports would be the Big Sky. However, we'll never have to worry about where Air Force puts their sports because they ain't leaving.

MVC schools are actually on average probably closer to Colorado Springs than MWC schools. The difference is destinations with less airport access and losing conference opponents in their own backyard (CSU and Wyoming). I don’t think they would go this route but there is a potentially compelling case.

[ragtimejoe1]

Another scenario: wsu and osu lose court case and pac is dissolved.

Wsu and osu win case and p4 find spots for them in order to prevent playoff chaos.

[flyfishwyo]

Another scenario: wsu and osu lose court case and pac is dissolved.

Wsu and osu win case and p4 find spots for them in order to prevent playoff chaos.

Not saying it's the likely scenario, but there's a larger chance the PAC gets dissolved than the press is reporting. Business partnerships get dissolved all the time with the expectation that the partners divide up resources and move on. Some of it will depend on their operating agreements. If the schools leaving can poke a few holes in those agreements the courts may not have much sympathy for OSU and WSU. I sure don't. They were a drain on the whole conference for 100 years.

[OrediggerPoke]

Another scenario: wsu and osu lose court case and pac is dissolved.

Wsu and osu win case and p4 find spots for them in order to prevent playoff chaos.

Not saying it's the likely scenario, but there's a larger chance the PAC gets dissolved than the press is reporting. Business partnerships get dissolved all the time with the expectation that the partners divide up resources and move on. Some of it will depend on their operating agreements. If the schools leaving can poke a few holes in those agreements the courts may not have much sympathy for OSU and WSU. I sure don't. They were a drain on the whole conference for 100 years.

Courts will likely have maximum sympathy for WSU and OSU. Courts very much apply principles of equity when applicable. WSU and OSU invested in their athletic departments in reliance upon a certain income level. When their ‘partners’ abandoned them, they were left in difficult positions of making ends meet (ie they have incurred funding obligations but now might not have the income to meet those obligations without some ability to tap into the conference’s assets).

[doreno5]

Another scenario: wsu and osu lose court case and pac is dissolved.

Wsu and osu win case and p4 find spots for them in order to prevent playoff chaos.

Not saying it's the likely scenario, but there's a larger chance the PAC gets dissolved than the press is reporting. Business partnerships get dissolved all the time with the expectation that the partners divide up resources and move on. Some of it will depend on their operating agreements. If the schools leaving can poke a few holes in those agreements the courts may not have much sympathy for OSU and WSU. I sure don't. They were a drain on the whole conference for 100 years.

Courts are not supposed to be fans of litigants or have sympathy for one side or the other. The operating agreements no doubt were written by very good lawyers and will likely be mostly upheld by the courts. The real question is how long will this drag on or will there be a settlement which basically will be paying off OSU and WSU to give up their rights.

[OrediggerPoke]

Not saying it's the likely scenario, but there's a larger chance the PAC gets dissolved than the press is reporting. Business partnerships get dissolved all the time with the expectation that the partners divide up resources and move on. Some of it will depend on their operating agreements. If the schools leaving can poke a few holes in those agreements the courts may not have much sympathy for OSU and WSU. I sure don't. They were a drain on the whole conference for 100 years.

Courts are not supposed to be fans of litigants or have sympathy for one side or the other. The operating agreements no doubt were written by very good lawyers and will likely be mostly upheld by the courts. The real question is how long will this drag on or will there be a settlement which basically will be paying off OSU and WSU to give up their rights.

If you believe judges’ beliefs of fair play don’t heavily impact their decisions then you likely have never litigated a case in court. It’s always issue #1 in litigating a non jury trial case (and even in many jury trials to help shape MSJ and daubert rulings).

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

To me it does not make sense for schools who are leaving a conference to have a say in any future dealings. I mean, they are LOSING their membership status.

It's like if I lived in State A, but moved to State B, but could still vote in elections in State A. Would make ZERO sense!

WSU and OR State should be the schools with the only say.

[flyfishwyo]

Courts are not supposed to be fans of litigants or have sympathy for one side or the other. The operating agreements no doubt were written by very good lawyers and will likely be mostly upheld by the courts. The real question is how long will this drag on or will there be a settlement which basically will be paying off OSU and WSU to give up their rights.

If you believe judges’ beliefs of fair play don’t heavily impact their decisions then you likely have never litigated a case in court. It’s always issue #1 in litigating a non jury trial case (and even in many jury trials to help shape MSJ and daubert rulings).

Except that WSU and OSU didn't invest in their programs at the same level as most of the other schools. They also aren't responsible for the majority of NCAA basketball share revenue. There wasn't real equity in the past agreement. Those two programs benefited much more than the rest of the conference.

[WYO_Fan_inPA]

If you believe judges’ beliefs of fair play don’t heavily impact their decisions then you likely have never litigated a case in court. It’s always issue #1 in litigating a non jury trial case (and even in many jury trials to help shape MSJ and daubert rulings).

Except that WSU and OSU didn't invest in their programs at the same level as most of the other schools. They also aren't responsible for the majority of NCAA basketball share revenue. There wasn't real equity in the past agreement. Those two programs benefited much more than the rest of the conference.

That is true and they very much did. Though the other programs are bailing. They have no further or future interest in the conference. Doesn't matter what they helped build. The idea is they are abandoning it. It would make more sense to me if other schools were joining and they would have control because they would be members.

[ragtimejoe1]

Big week for p12 and indirectly MWC. If osu and wsu win control of 500 mill, then all bets are off. The mwc will be destroyed, imo. If they lose; I don't think they have the juice to try to rebuild the pac and they'll be forced to join the nwc. The football playoff is already setting up a vote to Revoke the pac12 autobid. If course, wsu's prez/ad could single handily veto. Interesting few weeks/months coming up.

[303cowboy]

Oregon State and Washington State are close to agreeing to a 2-year football scheduling alliance with the Mountain West that is expected to include a compensation package as well as an intent for a future merger

https://sports.yahoo.com/after-victory- ... 33352.html

[Poke in New England]

Oregon State and Washington State are close to agreeing to a 2-year football scheduling alliance with the Mountain West that is expected to include a compensation package as well as an intent for a future merger

https://sports.yahoo.com/after-victory- ... 33352.html

Wow. That sounds like a pretty damn good deal for the MW and Wyoming

[303cowboy]

Love this part

Part of the agreement includes a financial penalty that can be levied upon Oregon State and Washington State if the two programs attempt to acquire only a portion of MWC schools in the future

Oregon State and Washington State are close to agreeing to a 2-year football scheduling alliance with the Mountain West that is expected to include a compensation package as well as an intent for a future merger

https://sports.yahoo.com/after-victory- ... 33352.html

Wow. That sounds like a pretty damn good deal for the MW and Wyoming

[DamThatRiver22]

RE: The deal being reported on

It's been rumored for a while, but it's nice to see some actual structure being reported and it seems like both sides are operating in good faith.

The deal itself honestly makes the most sense. The MWC was never going to just give up OoC scheduling and risk the conference splintering for absolutely nothing in return.

As much as we always joke about shedding dead weight, and as much as we (like any other conference) have a couple of holier-than-thou top dogs...the MWC as a whole wants to stay together and will make every reasonable effort to protect its little guys (especially founding members, and especially those involved in long-term rivalries).

We've also been knocking it out of the park with OoC scheduling and don't want to give that up without major financial incentive.

It's also in everyone's best interest (both the PAC-2 and the MWC) to retain/join the resources and brand of the "PAC".

There's some factors involved that still pose a risk for schools like UH, SJSU, USU, and UNR...non-founding members with historically little success and on the lower end of endowments, revenue, TV ratings, etc. If the financial penalty is low enough and a future TV deal is lucrative enough, the PAC-2 may still try to flex and buy several schools out, and/or the required 75% majority of the MWC may still vote to split. But the MWC is, for now, making a reasonable effort to protect itself from the same sh*t happening to them that just happened to the PAC-12....and the PAC-2 seem to be operating in gooth faith in an attempt to not be hypocritical.

Personally, I don't give a poop what name we end up under; I'd just like to see the conference stay intact and WSU/OSU would be great additions. I understand how sh*tty it is for the PAC-2 from multiple angles, but them's the cards dealt. We all might as well just make the best of it without dicking each other over.

Also, unlike you doomsdayers, I don't believe Wyoming was ever in major danger of being left out in a majority MWC split. We're a founding member (which has been a point of emphasis at times for the MWC in these talks). We're upper half to 2/3 of the conference in endowment (#1 afaik), gross revenue, bowls, TV ratings, on-field performance, attendance, academic rankings....the list goes on. And we're historically attached at the hip to CSU and AFA.

Concern wasn't completely unwarranted, but it's certainly overblown by pessimists. There are 4-5 other teams that would be left behind before us, based on numerous metrics.

[doreno5]

The only part about the report which bothered me was the proposal to change the playoff model from a 6-6 to a 5-7 which is basically a way of keeping only 1 non-power 5 school from participating Guess I just like a good David v. Goliaith story and think it would be real incentive for teams in conferences like the MW which are not guaranteed a berth if they win the conference.

[Wyokie]

This is probably the dumbest question ever asked on this site but...

Is this scheduling alliance between the MW and Oregon State/Washington State include the Olympic sports like basketball? Or this alliance just for football for now?

[WYO1016]

This is probably the dumbest question ever asked on this site but...

Is this scheduling alliance between the MW and Oregon State/Washington State include the Olympic sports like basketball? Or this alliance just for football for now?

At the moment, just football

[Wyokie]

This is probably the dumbest question ever asked on this site but...

Is this scheduling alliance between the MW and Oregon State/Washington State include the Olympic sports like basketball? Or this alliance just for football for now?

At the moment, just football

O.K., thanks.